Autotimers and Description Uniqueness

[Old Codger]

Hi. Hope someone can help with the following problem.

I'm in the UK, Freeview only. OpenViX version 5.3.038, Autotimer version 4.3.2.

My usual autotimer setup is to specify 'Check for uniqueness in Title and Short description'. While many autotimers work as expected, quite a few refuse to find more than a single programme, normally the first.

After many frustrating hours of experimentation, I've come to the conclusion that the failure only occurs in cases where the description is not unique enough to satisfy whatever algorithm is used. For example, a programme with a generic description for all episodes, but with a small variable part specifying the series/episode numbers, or perhaps the episode title.

This conclusion appears to be confirmed when I came across a forum topic from around 5 years ago (http://www.world-of-satellite.com/sh...mer-Uniqueness), which mentions a similarity of around 70%, so presumably the uniqueness has to be over 30% or so to qualify as unique ?

So, can anyone provide a solution to this, please. I noticed that the above forum topic talks about patches to the Autotimer code, but I guess these haven't been implemented for one reason or another.

Many thanks. Looking forward to your replies.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Lately I've been using:

Require description to be unique: Any service/recording
Check for uniqueness in: Tile and all descriptions

Which I think works better.

But sometimes when the EPG descriptions are minimal or not updated in time I just have to figure out a way using time and day restrictions that will usually capture the new episode when it's first shown without making repeat recordings.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Require description to be unique: Any service/recording
Check for uniqueness in: Tile and all descriptions

I've definitely had cases where this works.
I think maybe, for me, it sometimes works for Sky, but not for Freeview.

[ccs]

My usual autotimer setup is to specify 'Check for uniqueness in Title and Short description'. While many autotimers work as expected, quite a few refuse to find more than a single programme, normally the first

Isn't that what you'd expect to happen?

I've used freeview autotimers for years and never had a problem with multiple recordings of the same programme.

Maybe give a precise example of what you're trying to do?

[Old Codger]

Hi everybody.

Many thanks for all your replies, I never expected so many in such a short time!

I'll write a more detailed reply to the various points later (it will take quite a while), but I'll respond to just the following for now

Isn't that what you'd expect to happen?

I've used freeview autotimers for years and never had a problem with multiple recordings of the same programme.

Maybe give a precise example of what you're trying to do?

Apologies, my original wording wasn't clear - should have said 'quite a few refuse to find more than a single episode'.
So for a series with, say, 10 episodes currently listed in the EPG (6 unique episodes and 4 repeats, say), the autotimer only finds the first of the 10, not 6 as one would expect.

Please, no more replies for the moment - I'll be back later with responses to some of the other points, and an example of a programme which shows the problem I'm encountering.

Regards.

[adm]

Apologies, my original wording wasn't clear - should have said 'quite a few refuse to find more than a single episode'.
So for a series with, say, 10 episodes currently listed in the EPG (6 unique episodes and 4 repeats, say), the autotimer only finds the first of the 10, not 6 as one would expect.

Which suggests that the autotimer is incorrectly configured or maybe the broadcaster has used the same generic description for all episodes.
When you post an example of a problem series please also post screenshots of your autotimer settings for the program(s).

[birdman]

Which suggests that the autotimer is incorrectly configured or maybe the broadcaster has used the same generic description for all episodes.

The usual problem is that you have, say, 6 different episodes where the only difference between them is the episode number. This is insufficient for the similarity test to distinguish them. But if you switch that off you get all of the repeat broadcasts as well.
You can usually get rid of the repeats by specifying time periods for recording.

But then you can't get a repeat auto-recorded if you end up with a recording clash at the time of the original.

[ccs]

The usual problem is that you have, say, 6 different episodes where the only difference between them is the episode number.
This is insufficient for the similarity test to distinguish them. But if you switch that off you get all of the repeat broadcasts as well.
You can usually get rid of the repeats by specifying time periods for recording.

But then you can't get a repeat auto-recorded if you end up with a recording clash at the time of the original.

Surely there's a difference between unique and similar, or am I just getting old?

[adm]

The usual problem is that you have, say, 6 different episodes where the only difference between them is the episode number. This is insufficient for the similarity test to distinguish them.

But the wording in the menu is not to check for similar but check for unique. Shouldn't both have checks for identical strings rather than just similar strings?

[birdman]

Which suggests that the autotimer is incorrectly configured or maybe the broadcaster has used the same generic description for all episodes.
When you post an example of a problem series please also post screenshots of your autotimer settings for the program(s).

It's an old example, but see:

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/s...l=1#post384956

[spanner123]

It's as Brian says, this is the important bit and should work fine. I've never had any problems with these settings.
Require description to be unique: Any service/recording
Check for uniqueness in: Tile and all descriptions

[ccs]

It's as Brian says, this is the important bit and should work fine. I've never had any problems with these settings.
Require description to be unique: Any service/recording
Check for uniqueness in: Tile and all descriptions

What if titles and descriptions don't change, but the programmes are different eg the news?

I do the opposite - Require description to be unique=No and it records what I want.

[spanner123]

What if titles and descriptions don't change, but the programmes are different eg the news?

I do the opposite - Require description to be unique=No and it records what I want.

Then when setting up the autotimer you set that particular one to No on both of those settings I presume, but have never had an occasion to auto record something where description doesn't change.
I do the opposite - Require description to be unique=No and it records what I want. Won't this just record repeats or stuff you've already got recorded?

[ccs]

Then when setting up the autotimer you set that particular one to No on both of those settings I presume, but have never had an occasion to auto record something where description doesn't change.
I do the opposite - Require description to be unique=No and it records what I want. Won't this just record repeats or stuff you've already got recorded?

I stick to a particular channel and a timeframe, and never get repeats.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

I stick to a particular channel and a timeframe, and never get repeats.

Depends how the series you want to record is being shown.

Try and record, say, every episode, old or new, of "The Big Bang Theory" from E4 using just a time and/or day of week with no repeat recordings.
Can't be done. You have to go for unique descriptions from any of the almost never ending string of reruns they show.

But if you want to record, say, every episode of "Tech 24" from France 24 you have to figure out that the episode they show changes at the beginning of each week and use a day and time frame because every showing just has the same short generic description in the EPG.

There are a few things that kind of annoyingly fall between the two cases because they have a generic description up until maybe only a day before they are first shown and only then does a longer episode specific description usually appear.
Some of the sort of US current affairs review/discussion programs on CNN seem to be like this.