Tuner Chipsets and Drivers Info Developer Assistance

ArloG · Nov 3, 2020

I'm in the USA. I've pondered purchasing a VU+ receiver to be shipped here for some time now but am having decision selection problems.
Developers obviously have source code to build drivers for their pluggable tuners. So they must have the tuners in hand to build and debug the drivers.
I've asked WOS for info on tuner options for the Ultimo and others. The VU+ site only shows photos and no details.
Could someone give me a list of the tuner chipsets so that I could narrow down my selections?

I have an HDHomerun tuner that works great for in the clear cable H256 channels and no over the air ATSC channels I can receive here.
My first sat receiver was a Zgemma H7-AC. The specs said it would receive cable channels. It never did. I had the frequency log from the HDHomerun with all of the parameters to plug into the Zgemma. It never acknowledged a frequency existed.
My Edision Os Mio 4k has a terrestrial/cable tuner. I haven't tried hooking up my cable to it (need and adapter for F to it).

Cable doesn't matter that much. C and ku band does. Things like blindscans, 4 MHz closely spaced frequencies, t2-MI, MIS, ACM/VCM does matter.
A photo of a tuner on the VU+ site and details of chips contained in them are pretty sparse. If any at all.
WOS gives the option of tuner selection for receivers, just no information of tuner details. Receivers at least have the processor and capabilities listed.
What would it take or where would I go to check the inner details of tuner components? Or compatibility between the various receivers?

I have a few friends over across the pond who took WOS tuner selection suggestions and haven't had that good of and experience.
I'm not a level 1 geek and of course there is not a walk in store to see before I buy.

Where does a person go to find out the tuner inner details? I have a contact who would ship here from the UK to give a VU+ a go on a trial basis to review their performance with different tuners and images.

Anybody?

ccs · Nov 3, 2020

ArloG said:
Developers obviously have source code to build drivers for their pluggable tuners. So they must have the tuners in hand to build and debug the drivers.

The tuner drivers are only supplied by the manufacturers, so the source is not available to image developers.

ArloG · Nov 4, 2020

I'm aware of the nondiscloseure agreement for those that do release the source.
So how can I find the chipsets in these tuners? Some other tuners list an AVL, BCMxxxx, etc. chip.

twol · Nov 4, 2020

ArloG said:
I'm in the USA. I've pondered purchasing a VU+ receiver to be shipped here for some time now but am having decision selection problems.
Developers obviously have source code to build drivers for their pluggable tuners. So they must have the tuners in hand to build and debug the drivers.
I've asked WOS for info on tuner options for the Ultimo and others. The VU+ site only shows photos and no details.
Could someone give me a list of the tuner chipsets so that I could narrow down my selections?

I have an HDHomerun tuner that works great for in the clear cable H256 channels and no over the air ATSC channels I can receive here.
My first sat receiver was a Zgemma H7-AC. The specs said it would receive cable channels. It never did. I had the frequency log from the HDHomerun with all of the parameters to plug into the Zgemma. It never acknowledged a frequency existed.
My Edision Os Mio 4k has a terrestrial/cable tuner. I haven't tried hooking up my cable to it (need and adapter for F to it).

Cable doesn't matter that much. C and ku band does. Things like blindscans, 4 MHz closely spaced frequencies, t2-MI, MIS, ACM/VCM does matter.
A photo of a tuner on the VU+ site and details of chips contained in them are pretty sparse. If any at all.
WOS gives the option of tuner selection for receivers, just no information of tuner details. Receivers at least have the processor and capabilities listed.
What would it take or where would I go to check the inner details of tuner components? Or compatibility between the various receivers?

I have a few friends over across the pond who took WOS tuner selection suggestions and haven't had that good of and experience.
I'm not a level 1 geek and of course there is not a walk in store to see before I buy.

Where does a person go to find out the tuner inner details? I have a contact who would ship here from the UK to give a VU+ a go on a trial basis to review their performance with different tuners and images.

Anybody?

I think you are probably pretty clued up via your discussions with el bandido and to be honest if you are not getting what you require from the Edision, I certainly wouldn‘t expect you to get it from a Vu+ box.

ArloG · Nov 4, 2020

twol. Not the response I expected. The H7 and Mio differ in the fact that one 2 satellite tuners and the other has 1. I used the H7's dual tuners.
el bandido has been helpful and informative. Perhaps I think that a VU+ with its front panel display is pretty slick.
And unlike the other boxes I own that have soldered in place tuners, I get a choice of tuners with the others.
It's pretty straight forward. At the hardware level I was just inquiring if any tuner chipset info was available. Perhaps extracting a VU+ image would tell me more.
What if I wanted to pursue unicable? Or maybe be a little more assured a terrestrial/cable tuner would respond to manually inputting frequencies and show in signal finder.
But thanks anyway. About as much information as I got from WOS.

ronand · Nov 4, 2020

Drivers are closed source - only the manufacturers will have the info you need. Its a bit unfair expecting UK retailers to know about the US systems that they have no access too - there must be some dealers in the USA that know something about satellite?

ArloG · Nov 4, 2020

ronand said:
Drivers are closed source - only the manufacturers will have the info you need. Its a bit unfair expecting UK retailers to know about the US systems that they have no access too - there must be some dealers in the USA that know something about satellite?

My apologies if my question is confusing. Not unfair at all really. Lets put it this way. If I knew what chipset a tuner was constructed with my decision would be much easier.
Take for instance my Os Mio 4k. If I press the Menu remote button and scroll to Information>Devices, Tuner A is an Availink AVL6261 (DVB-SX2). Tuner B is an Avialink AVL6762.
The tuners are soldered in place and I know what I'm getting before purchasing. No dealers in the US that I know sell VU+. But many European dealers sell Edision's.
Arrrr, me laddy. Do ye agree so farrrrrr?

So WOS sells this tuner:

https://www.world-of-satellite.co.u...-Plus-Tuners/vu-plus-dvb-s2x-fbc-tuner-module

And if you installed it in your receiver what would the same button sequence reveal?
If you have one of these receivers and know the tuner(s) by description, what does your devices reveal?
We know a lot about your inquiry. As long as we know what we're getting in the box or as an accessory.

So would somebody jump in as a favor and list what you have please?

twol · Nov 4, 2020

ArloG said:
My apologies if my question is confusing. Not unfair at all really. Lets put it this way. If I knew what chipset a tuner was constructed with my decision would be much easier.
Take for instance my Os Mio 4k. If I press the Menu remote button and scroll to Information>Devices, Tuner A is an Availink AVL6261 (DVB-SX2). Tuner B is an Avialink AVL6762.
The tuners are soldered in place and I know what I'm getting before purchasing. No dealers in the US that I know sell VU+. But many European dealers sell Edision's.
Arrrr, me laddy. Do ye agree so farrrrrr?

So WOS sells this tuner:

https://www.world-of-satellite.co.u...-Plus-Tuners/vu-plus-dvb-s2x-fbc-tuner-module

And if you installed it in your receiver what would the same button sequence reveal?
If you have one of these receivers and know the tuner(s) by description, what does your devices reveal?
We know a lot about your inquiry. As long as we know what we're getting in the box or as an accessory.

So would somebody jump in as a favor and list what you have please?

So backoff laddie !
What do you want from these technologies? What are you trying to do? You can have many different technologies that can achieve the same result (some better than others)
There are a couple of receivers like the Edision that are really sensitive ( but you can‘t be bothered to test the drivers you were given) .. so what are you are actually after!!

This is not the 1st forum you have been busy posting over several months, so what are you really after?

ronand · Nov 4, 2020

From memory it just shows up as a turbo tuner in the menu which isn't the info you need - "Vuplus DVB-T/C USB NIM(TURBO)" Its a few years since I have seen one. They only work on vu boxes as well and not many people bother with them

adm · Nov 4, 2020

ArloG said:
My apologies if my question is confusing. Not unfair at all really. Lets put it this way. If I knew what chipset a tuner was constructed with my decision would be much easier.
Take for instance my Os Mio 4k. If I press the Menu remote button and scroll to Information>Devices, Tuner A is an Availink AVL6261 (DVB-SX2). Tuner B is an Avialink AVL6762.
The tuners are soldered in place and I know what I'm getting before purchasing. No dealers in the US that I know sell VU+. But many European dealers sell Edision's.
Arrrr, me laddy. Do ye agree so farrrrrr?

So WOS sells this tuner:

https://www.world-of-satellite.co.u...-Plus-Tuners/vu-plus-dvb-s2x-fbc-tuner-module

And if you installed it in your receiver what would the same button sequence reveal?
If you have one of these receivers and know the tuner(s) by description, what does your devices reveal?
We know a lot about your inquiry. As long as we know what we're getting in the box or as an accessory.

So would somebody jump in as a favor and list what you have please?

Within the Vix image the tuner type is in
menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> tuner setup

Which will show something like
For an Extrend ET10000

and when selecting one of the satellite tuners....

and for a Zgemma H9S

Athough NOT the tuners in the boxes you are considering is this the type of information you are looking for?

Ev0 · Nov 4, 2020

Vuplus DVB-C NIM(BCM3158) (DVB-C)
Vuplus DVB-S NIM(45308X FBC) (DVB-S2X)
Vuplus DVB-T NIM(TT3L10) (MultiType DVB-C/T2)
Vuplus DVB-T NIM(BCM3466) (DVB-T2)

ArloG · Nov 4, 2020

twol said:
So backoff laddie !
What do you want from these technologies? What are you trying to do? You can have many different technologies that can achieve the same result (some better than others)
There are a couple of receivers like the Edision that are really sensitive ( but you can‘t be bothered to test the drivers you were given) .. so what are you are actually after!!

This is not the 1st forum you have been busy posting over several months, so what are you really after?

Aye now ye throw shapes.
I have tested the drivers. And since ye must be trollin' me. I tried them out and some were fast and missed a lot of transponders and channels.
Others slow and thorough. Very slow matter of factly. 45 minutes for a blindscan. Some had issues with 4 MHz spaced transponders. And others gave many duplicates.
All results were returned to Edision. It shows that they are interested in marketing in other than European regions.
Perhaps just helping a person out without a culchie attitude would be the trinners way without all of the codding.
Like Ev0 posted. A data sheet on the chip would show what it should be able to do. Possibly revealing driver support?
This is the second time I've posted an inquiry in this forum. You haven't offered assistance. Thanks anyway.
I was looking for a nice dual tuner satellite receiver because the Zgemma was a big let down. Promises in advertising that proved false after purchase.
That's all.

el bandido · Nov 4, 2020

A data sheet will tell you nothing because what the data sheet says and what is actually supported in the fta receiver may be two different things.

Why not buy a high priced VU+ and tell us how well the tuner(s) work in North America? Maybe you will be very satisfied with it.

ArloG · Nov 4, 2020

el bandido said:
A data sheet will tell you nothing because what the data sheet says and what is actually supported in the fta receiver may be two different things.

Why not buy a high priced VU+ and tell us how well the tuner(s) work in North America? Maybe you will be very satisfied with it.

Thanks el bandido. You've always been helpful and patient. Without the AVL6261 tuner in the Mio we wouldn't be able to receive or even scan ACM/VCM like the music channels as has been the case with the H7.AC. And we all know the H7 comes in many flavors. My forum friend, as I'm on a few, bought an H7.S and had worse performance than mine. So maybe it was in the tuner that was soldered in it.

The Mio wouldn't do what it can without the AVL6261. Why bother with data sheets? Obviously Edision assisted you in getting TNAP where it is now. Data sheets mean a lot.

https://github.com/availink/documentation/blob/master/AVL6261/AVL6261C_product_brief.pdf

Don't you agree? And that's where I'm trying to get with VU+. If they even care to market a product out of their realm.
"Here's a tuner you can plug in" isn't really a good marketing ploy. And those who are a little more into whats outside the box should be able to have access to the info.
Heck. The Firebird in your pic may just have a 6 cylinder and the bird decal with a few pop rivets to hold the shaker on. If you sold it, somebody would probably like to pop the hood.
Yeah. I'm not into buying any more chinese boxes that leave me wondering and wanting. I don't have dual sat tuners in the Mio like the H7 has. But it can do so much more.
My Mio and H7 are basically parts donors if their tuners smoke. The Mio doesn't have pass thru. So watching tv upstairs just means more cable.
So. I'm getting nowhere here obviously. Sorry for asking a simple question.
Forums seem to get balky when you ask a more in depth tekkie question. it's the "no-answer" replies that get me.

adm · Nov 4, 2020

ArloG said:
Data sheets mean a lot.

https://github.com/availink/documentation/blob/master/AVL6261/AVL6261C_product_brief.pdf

Don't you agree?

That’s not a data sheet! It is a summary sheet of the functionality. The true data sheet would probably be 100+ pages of data.

A data sheet for a bought in IC or module will give details of what the product is capable of doing and give programming and timing information. This doesn't mean that the manufacturer of the box to which this third party component is fitted in wishes to support 100% of the functionality. I guess that few of the box manufacturers actually design their own tuner modules, and maybe even they just use a generic driver supplied by the module manufacturer.

It's much like a data sheet for, say, a 8 bit microcontroller where the user could use the functionality to flash a single LED or alternately to fully control a central heating system, or even something much more complex.

ArloG · Nov 4, 2020

yeah you're right it's a product brief. I'm not manufacturing a tuner card so it (design and gerbers) means nothing to me. a full datasheet would be available as a nondisclosure agreement. familiar with those from an industrial r&d dept. i worked for for many years. as far as it goes, the board design with pick and place instructions would leave r&d and details would stay there. it would be a back and forth with the mfgr. to get drivers modified from rtm such as el has probably had to deal with. but with the product brief info at least it tells of the chip capabilities. we can drop the rest. my interest in vu+ declined very fast. the screen shot of hardware was probably the most helpful thing on this entire page, unless somebody else wishes to do the same with their receiver(s).
thanks crew. it's been a gas.

abu baniaz · Nov 4, 2020

You keep mentioning non-disclosure agreements. Between whom?

ArloG · Nov 5, 2020

abu baniaz said:
You keep mentioning non-disclosure agreements. Between whom?

Mr. Abu. Since you have taken interest. Agreements between the chipset manufacturer and the equipment manufacturer.
Since I could not find data for the VU+ tuners I wanted to see is members here could possibly post the tuner they have in their receivers and the hardware info shown in the receiver.
Then I could compare receivers here in the US that may contain the same tuner chip. It would help make a more wise decision before purchase.
As we say here, it turned into a bit of a tooth pulling adventure. I was only wanting to invest in a very good receiver with 2 or 3 tuner capability.
It would seem that if you were to assign a receiver frequency with the other parameters needed, you should be shown a signal strength in the signal finder screen.
One school of thought would be to purchase a receiver and every single tuner card that would fit in it. But we don't do it that way do we?
Another school of thought would be the ability to painlessly inform a customer that tuner XXXX was capable on receiving DVB-XX/XX.
And that the tuner was equipped with an XXXX chipset which would demodulate <these> formats. TBS cards are pretty good at that.
Also because new satellites may be launched as el bandido mentioned, a little foresight in if the receiver would be able to receive them at all would be cool.
I've lost interest again in the VU+ line only due to my experience with asking WOS and this site. It should not really require the replies. I'm always willing to help forum members in my skill set. You are known for softcams and I see you are receptive to questions and assistance. What is different here? Thanks everybody.
Lets close this post please. It has gone nowhere. The questions are good and valid. The replies are iffy at most. You are welcome.

birdman · Nov 5, 2020

ronand said:
Drivers are closed source - only the manufacturers will have the info you need.

Linux drivers are done by chipset, rather than a specific brand of tuner.
So what you need to find is a tuner (a USB one) that has a chipset which is supported by the Linux kernel (and where the driver is built for that chipset for your box).

Something like:

Code:

https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Pinnacle_PCTV_DVB-S2_Stick_(461e)

abu baniaz · Nov 5, 2020

There are no agreements between ViX team and the chipset providers, receiver manufacturers. You will get one chipset used in two different brands of receivers and both behave differently.

I presume you wanted details of the Ultimo 4K and not Ultimo. Ev0 has already posted details.

If you need more details, ask specific questions and someone should answer.

Tuner Chipsets and Drivers Info Developer Assistance

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