steerable dish problem, is it the motor or the box?

[wozles]

Hello.
I have been having problems with my Vu+ Solo2 which had been working well for over a decade until a couple of months ago.
I have spent well over 50 man hours on this problem.
My dilemma is how to prove the fault lies with the box or the dish motor.
Briefly, I have used 2 motors and both A and B tuners. I have tried both motors on a short cable next to the box, they both turn on 13v and 18v.
The original motor is about 15 years old but has not had a great deal of operation. It's a STAB and says 18v on the casing but I was using the tuner setting
Simple , Positioner, which does not give an increased voltage option as Advanced does, so was working on 13v (I measured the voltage at the dish, which has a 25 metre cable run.)
The second motor was purchased online second hand so I don't know its history, it's an Interstar (Germany) made in Italy and is also 18v is all I know.

About 2 months ago the system stopped finding satellites. After some faffing around, I took down the dish, tested the motor, then re-installed from scratch.
It worked for a few weeks then failed. I didn't touch the motor but reinstalled everything else, factory reset, new Vix image, single LNB (instead of 4 way) etc and it started working.
Some days later the dish was at zero degrees and would not turn. I have since gone through the motions again but it keeps resetting to zero intermittently I have now resorted to a fixed dish on 28.2 'cos I've given up.
The obvious thing is the 13v / 18v issue but on here I've seen Single, Positioner, as the recommended setting.

Apologies for this ramble , if some kind person could simply tell me what settings I SHOULD be using, I'll try once more and if it fails, I'll buy a new box and motor. ( I can see why ip streaming might mean the end for satellite )

[abu baniaz]

Have you tried a different PSU?

Another check is to use another receiver and test the dish. Or take your receiver and test it on another motorised dish.

[wozles]

Hi Abu. Been a while since you last helped me. (FBC and Unicable.)

Power supply unit for the Solo2 ? I didn't realise that could be a possibility, I have no other power problems.

Can you advise on the 13v/18v options for positioner?

One thing I didn't mention was I could not select a satellite but could drive the dish E or W sometimes but then sometimes it would not move.
It also returned to zero by itself so the motor did work on occasion.

Your 'other box' suggestion is valid. I do have another Vu+ Uno 4k box but disconnecting it and reprogramming would not be a feasible option for various reasons..........one being my wife.
I don't know anyone else with a steerable dish to test my box.

Could you please tell me what should be the correct tuner settings for my Solo2 using USALS with an 18v motor over 25m cable length? I'll try that and if the problem still exists then I can then buy at least one brand new item to locate the 'fault'.
It all used to work correctly, something has failed.

Thanks.

[Joe_90]

All motors have to be able to handle 13/18V. The change in voltage is to switch the LNB between Horizontal and Vertical transponders. The motor will generally spin faster when it is getting 18V. When I first got my AX61HD (newly released at the time) box it would not drive the motor when I selected a Vertical transponder (13V). It only worked when I selected a horizontal transponder. After a lot of checking of the power supply and LNB it actually transpired to be an issue with the box firmware not supplying enough current which was fixed by the manufacturer. In your case it may well be a hardware issue as your VU is over 10 years old. It could well be that the PSU is going fault and cannot supply enough current or the box itself as it has to step up to 18V AND pass sufficient current to turn the motor and energise the LNB. You can only eliminate the VU as being faulty by trying another box.

[abu baniaz]

The PSUs fail after some time. They are Ok at lower demand, but when they need to supply more juice, they fail. Any 12V PSU with 3 amp minimum will do. It is a standard tip that is used on most devices. I think the Uno 4K has a different connector though.

The tuner configuration is simple, USALS, enter your co-ordinates. You can create a settings backup up on your Uno 4K. Change the tuner configuration to use the motor. When you are finished testing, restore the settings.

There is a possibility the motors have failed. There are two of them and one receiver, so more likely the receiver is at fault. It cant be software issue. As you say, it used to work.

[wozles]

Thanks for the advice \Joe and Abu.
I'll post any results on here.

[wozles]

Hi.
I could not find a new PSU. And I had a brain fart when I said the cable length was 25m, it's actually 50m.
I did find an old Humax Foxsat freesat box and discovered that
it can be made into a motorised setup using a hidden menu.
I can steer the dish using this box, using the higher voltage (as advised on a pop-up message) so it seems the motor is ok.
(Very awkward setup tho, would not like to use it permanently.)
I can tune in channels on the Vu+ , so the tuners are working.
Where does the power to turn the dish actually come from?
Could I change a component or will I have to get a new box?

[Huevos]

Where does the power to turn the dish actually come from?

Normally from the National Grid. Anyway if the LNB is tuning channels there is power on the cable but maybe not sufficient to move the motor which is why Abu suggested changing the power supply. Something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/100-240V-Co...90&sr=8-7&th=1

[Joe_90]

50m is a very long cable length to be using to attach a motor. There will be a voltage drop, so if your VU on-board components are not capable of generating the full 18V and passing sufficient current to the motor it may be the reason why you are having issues. It also could be that the power supply unit to the VU is marginal. The fact that you got an old Freesat box to turn the motor across the full 50m would seem to indicate that the motor is ok, though. You also indicate that you were able to get the two motors working with a shorter cable which would indicate to me that the problem is mainly with the voltage drop caused by the extreme cable length. To minimise the effects of voltage drop you could re-make the F connectors at each end, ensuring that the central copper core and the braid are shiny and that there is no possibility of any strands of the braid touching the core. You need every last millivolt of DC at the motor and LNB to ensure success. Any hint of corrosion will impact the DC power to the motor.

[wozles]

Ahh! I typed out an extensive reply but it has disappeared. That's 20 minutes I won't get back.
First of all Mr smarty pants Huevos, I'm in France so not on National Grid. So there! I wondered which component in the box supplied the power.
I obviously don't understand the complexities of the system.

So thank you Mr 90 and Mr Bianz, (and Mr Huevos) I have now overcome the problem by using the Foxsat box temporarily.
I said I had tested the cables, I only tested the cables I was using for the fault finding. My bad. There was a short on the original motor control cable. When I connected a French TNT SAT box, it flashed up an overload message straight away. Do new Vu+ boxes have that?
One strand of braiding was wound round the centre conductor. It had been forced down by the F plug and had cut into the insulation so was invisible to MY naked eye. I had to use a jewellers loupe to see it.
So have I damaged the tuners (or whatever component supplies motor power.) ? I used both A and B tuners as controllers at different times.
The 50 meter cable length wasn't a problem before but I suppose as components age they become less efficient.
When I was fault finding, the dish would return to zero intermittently so there was enough power to do that.

Could it be the software for positioning that has been corrupted?
Are there any parts I could change other than the PSU Huevos directed me to?

I will consider repositioning the dish to reduce the length of cable but there are trees in the way, I have a query concerning that but I will post it in a different thread.
Enough of my verbosity , I'm off to watch some tele. Cheerio and thanks again.

[ArloGuthrie]

If you aint testin', you're guessin'.
You can always test your coax with a multimeter. Both ends disconnected, measuring at one end, infinite resistance (OL on the meter, "open lead"). Short one end center 'stinger' to the connector shell. Meter at the other end. Close to zero resistance or slightly more depending on the length. In diode mode. Which give a bit more voltage over the test leads. A little voltage drop is ok. Compare to the reading with the test leads shorted.
A loose strand of shield has fooled more than one person. Coax shield shoved back in the jacket causes poor conductivity. Tons of suggested coax crimping specifications out there. Whether hex crimp or compression crimp. Always, if you roll your own. "Foldback" the shield over the outer jacket. The tapered connector ferrule will push the shield out instead of getting crammed in the outer plastic jacket.
Look for those tiny shield strands touching the stinger before you do the crimp.
Who knows. A receiver might be tolerant to shorted coax. Maybe not. If it does happen. Unplug the receiver and let the tuner module cool down. Short circuit protection and overheating shutdown is 'normally' a thing. Or not. Only takes a second to check your coax for a short.
A check at the dish for 13 or 18 VDC with a meter is easy. A short jumper in between the coax and usals motor/lnbf opened up to expose the center and shield will let you check for voltage drop.
Bad motor? Not enough voltage when it's running? A flaky lnbf? Put the receiver in blindscan and check for toggling 13/18 volts.
It ain't rocket science. That's the easy stuff.
Even an el-cheapo handheld oscilloscope/component tester will let you see if 22 kHz is being sent. A multimeter with frequency setting might also. Does for me. Or diseqc data packets. Or the lack of. Or 'dirty' because of junk coax....anything. Moisture ingress. You used your brothers Vice Grips to make a crimp. The kat!. The lawn guy (you!).

[Huevos]

The sockets on the back of the box are current limit so unlikely to be damaged by short.

[wozles]

My problem is now solved but thanks for your input ArloGuthrie.
Huevos, you seem to have nailed it.
The short circuit must have been there for some time but did not stop the dish from operating.
However I can only assume (or guess, Arlo) that over time it had an effect on the receiver.
Anyhoo I now have a new 12v psu but the connecting plug is the wrong size, I'll have to consider cutting the original connector off and using that.
For the moment I will live with what I've got. I only ever used the motorised facility to watch football on other satellites but internet streaming has to a large extent made that redundant.

[ArloGuthrie]

Wozles. Congrats on locating and solving the problem. I would like to ask if and when you get the time is you would be able to grab a screenshot.
In your receiver's main menu. In Information>Devices. Would you be able to snap a screenshot or just list the tuner(s) that are shown in Detected tuners. Please?

Huevos. "The sockets on the back of the box are current limit". VU+ never ever lists the exact tuner chipset of their pluggable tuners. Unlike the Octagon SF8008 and Edision OsMio4k series for example.
And that bugs me. Even though I really was considering purchasing one of the higher end VU+ receivers with my choice of pluggable tuner. It goes back a few years with 0 replies. From here and WOS and the VU+ forum.
I've been told to stay away from them because they, well, suck at blindscanning. Another person on "this side of the pond" mentioned and then proved that his VU+ receiver picked up more transponders and with better signal quality than the osmio4k everyone suggested he get for a second box.
Current limited "sockets"? Did you mean the lnb connectors on the tuner(s)?
I spend my days working on electronics for a living. So that involves looking up datasheets for sometimes impossible no-repair devices.
FTA receivers are normally designed to support the load of a regular FTA lnb(f). Folks have made the mistake of using triple lnbf's designed for pay satellite services.
They consume a constant 3-4 times the current of an FTA lnbf. If the tuner section doesn't get hot and shut down, they simply fry. The company distributed receivers are designed for it.
Current limited is a slack term. A dead short may shut the tuner down. Or it may not and heat up until it fails. So let's consider Wozles a very lucky fellow.
And WOS and VU+ needs to step up to the plate. Period.

[Huevos]

Wozles. Congrats on locating and solving the problem. I would like to ask if and when you get the time is you would be able to grab a screenshot.
In your receiver's main menu. In Information>Devices. Would you be able to snap a screenshot or just list the tuner(s) that are shown in Detected tuners. Please?

Huevos. "The sockets on the back of the box are current limit". VU+ never ever lists the exact tuner chipset of their pluggable tuners. Unlike the Octagon SF8008 and Edision OsMio4k series for example.
And that bugs me. Even though I really was considering purchasing one of the higher end VU+ receivers with my choice of pluggable tuner. It goes back a few years with 0 replies. From here and WOS and the VU+ forum.
I've been told to stay away from them because they, well, suck at blindscanning. Another person on "this side of the pond" mentioned and then proved that his VU+ receiver picked up more transponders and with better signal quality than the osmio4k everyone suggested he get for a second box.
Current limited "sockets"? Did you mean the lnb connectors on the tuner(s)?
I spend my days working on electronics for a living. So that involves looking up datasheets for sometimes impossible no-repair devices.
FTA receivers are normally designed to support the load of a regular FTA lnb(f). Folks have made the mistake of using triple lnbf's designed for pay satellite services.
They consume a constant 3-4 times the current of an FTA lnbf. If the tuner section doesn't get hot and shut down, they simply fry. The company distributed receivers are designed for it.
Current limited is a slack term. A dead short may shut the tuner down. Or it may not and heat up until it fails. So let's consider Wozles a very lucky fellow.
And WOS and VU+ needs to step up to the plate. Period.

I don't understand the comment about WOS. Nor Vu+ plus which doesn't seem to exist anymore. Vu+ had blindscan since the original Ultimo but misses nots of stuff. You have to use the early slot in tuners (single and twin) not the FBC. But Octagon SF8008 and Edision OsMio4k series have superior blindscan potential.