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View Entry Info: Cannot stream live TV (same channel or same transponder/mux) to more than 1 client at the same time

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Thread: Cannot stream live TV (same channel or same transponder/mux) to more than 1 client at the same time

  1. #1

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    Cannot stream live TV (same channel or same transponder/mux) to more than 1 client at the same time

    It is impossible for me to stream the same channel (or a different channel from the same sat transponder or terrestrial mux) to more than 1 endpoint client at the same time.

    The endpoint clients have been multiple device types: Windows PC, Raspberry Pi running OSMC, MacOS etc.

    All of these devices are capable to playing a stream.

    However, it is not possible to initiate a 2nd simultaneous stream --- I have tried this in many combinations/permutations.

    The only way I can make the 2nd device play a stream (and the "2nd" device has been a variety of devices in my testing) is to stop the existing stream.

    My understanding of the technology suggests that I should be able to stream to multiple clients from the same Tuner/Transponder (limited only by network bandwidth and hardware resource performance). Other posters have confirmed that this case under normal circumstances.

    Is there a bug or limitation in the Formuler F1 Openvix image that is preventing me from getting this working?

    Is there a setting I need to modify?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2

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    Does it happen also with FTA channels?

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    clane (19-06-21)

  4. #3

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    Hi - thanks for replying

    Yes it happens with both Terrestrial (Irish Saorview) and Astra-sourced FTA satellite.

    If 2 channels that will ultimately require 2 separate tuners - e.g. - 1 is terrestrial and 1 satellite -- or both are satellite but require the 2nd tuner (because it's a different transponder / polarity / etc) then 2 channels will stream simultaneously.

    The issue seems to arise when the Formuler F1 box is tasked with more than 1 request - and those 2 requests can be delivered by a single tuner (from a purely tuner technology perspective).


    It cannot deliver multiple streams from a single tuner.

    Openvix is also not even engaging a 2nd tuner (where available) to generate a 2nd stream. This would be, of course, not a desirable solution - as it would only scale to 1 stream per the number of available tuners of that type.

    Thanks again for replying!

    Does it seem like a bug?

  5. #4
    Huevos's Avatar
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    Streaming requires a different tuner from direct viewing.

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    Ok thanks ....

    But I can stream from the tuners ..... I just can't stream to more than 1 device at a time from a tuner.

    Each of the endpoint machines are able to play the stream - if no other machine is already consuming the stream.

    I'm assuming this is not an intentional design behaviour.

    Streaming normally - generally speaking - supports a one-to-many relationship where a single server entity pushes a commonly-addressed stream over a network ecosystem and multiple device can then receive and consume the streamed media.

    The only constraints and limitations (in a freely available anonymously accessible stream) are the server hardware capacity for the task and the available bandwidth throughout the network infrastructure.

    I'm assuming that each client should not be addressing the tuner hardware directly and that the OpenVix OS distro is serving the stream in a black-box manner to the client through an appropriate service.

    So, it seems that a "1 stream client per tuner" limit is practically in effect - either by design or by accidental happenstance.

    Can someone please confirm that I should be able to stream a live TV stream to multiple endpoints at the same time?

    Thanks

    If it is the case that simultaneous streams (ultimately being server from the same tuner) is expected behaviour, then there is either a bug in the Formuler F1 Openvix image, or I have something broken in my configuration.

    I have tried and failed to get this working on multiple different flashes of multiple different builds and I have never seen it working as I think it should typically work.

    Thanks again everyone for reading and posting!

  7. #6
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    Expected behaviour is one tuner per stream.

  8. #7

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    But more than one endpoint should be able to consume this live stream - yes?

    A live stream is the same data - regardless of how many clients are consuming the stream.

    Is it designed behaviour that only 1 device can consume a live of stream of (for example) BBC 1 at a time?

    So 2 people, in the same house, in 2 separate bedrooms cannot watch the same live stream of the same channel at the same time?

    I'm sorry if I appear to be asking the same question, but I haven't really seen a direct answer to that specific question: is there a deliberately designed limitation (or technological hardware/software limitation) that prevents 2 end users consuming the same live TV channel stream at the same time?

    If there is a designed reason, could you please explain the logic of it.
    If there is a technological limitation, could you please explain that to me - as I can't think of one (but I am happy to be corrected and learn something new).

  9. #8
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    You would have been better off with an FBC tuner capable box


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Vu+ Ultimo 4K with 3TB HDD, Dual FBC (Sat) tuners, 1x Twin Hybrid DVB-C/T/T2 tuner
    Vu+ Solo 4K with 1TB HDD, Dual FBC (Sat) tuners, 1x Hybrid DVB-C/T/T2 tuner
    Vu+ Solo 2 with 1TB HDD 'White Edition', 2x DVB-S2 tuners
    Mut@nt HD2400 with 1TB HDD, 4x DVB-S2 tuners
    Fixed 28.2E Technomate 65cm Mesh Satellite Dish with Inverto Unicable II/JESS LNB and Inverto Unicable Splitter
    Fixed 28.2E Sky Zone 1 45cm Satellite Dish with Octo LNB
    (All receivers installed with the latest Dev build)

  10. #9

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    OpenWebif on 2 different laptops allows me to watch the same channel the tv is tuned to (or any other for that matter), using a vu ultimo4k on terrestrial freeview.

    Only one tuner is being used for the same channel/mux, but more than 1 if different mux's are chosen.

    Maybe there are different interpretations of the word "streaming"?
    Last edited by ccs; 17-06-21 at 13:08.

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  12. #10

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    Thanks guys.

    Does anybody know definitively if the Formuler F1 has a hardware limitation restricting the remote viewing of the same live TV channel on 2 or more end-user devices (computers, tablets etc)?

    If the hardware is capable of this, then, the logical progression is that this is not correctly implemented in the Openvix image for Formuler F1.

    If there is a practical hardware limitation that is preventing 2 end users remotely consuming the exact same Live TV channel feed, can someone please explain what that limitation actually is?

    I don't understand what this limitation could be.

    The Formuler F1, behaving as a "server", makes the common feed broadcast available
    The Formuler F1, behaving as a "server" obtains the feed from a hardware Tuner and abstracts it away to a data stream
    The "client" devices are not directly interacting with the Tuner card (the clients "ask" the Formuler F1 service responsible - and that service responds - and - handles Tuner availability etc to then provide the TV live Feed as an AV network stream).
    Multiple clients should be able to receive this common stream (assuming all devices and infrastructure have the performance and network bandwidth to initiate and persist the connections.
    Given that the data for the same feed is common for all clients, a single tuner should be able to provide feeds of the same live broadcast to many remote clients on the network (only limited by load and hardware performance capability).

    Given that I CAN already initiate 2 streams where 2 different tuners are inherently needed (e.g. 1 DVB-T + 1 DVB-S channel, or 2 DVB-S channels, but they require a different LNB feeds, due to voltage or polarity permutations etc):

    The box/OS is capable of handling more than 1 stream.
    But, the box/OS refuses to initiate multiple streams of the same channel (even though there is a free tuner available to use for a 2nd remote connection).

    This part doesn't make any sense to me -- because: even if there's a limit of 1 remote feed per tuner (and that also doesn't sound correct) , then should I not be able to initiate a 2nd feed using the other tuner?

    The box already utilises the spare tuner when a different tuner is inherently required (as per my example above).

    Sorry for the long post - and thanks again for everyone who is helping!!

  13. #11
    twol's Avatar
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    So I do have a box with fbc tuners plus a dvb.s2 tuner. However, I can use ny gigablue app (I guess using the web interface) on my Ipad to access any channel whilst watching the TV.
    Gigablue Quad 4K & UE 4K
    .........FBC Tuners:
    ------------------> DUR-Line DCR 5-1-8-L4 Multiswitch to 1.5M dish(28.2E)
    ------------------> Spaun SUS 5581/33 NFA Multiswitch to 80 cm dish(19.2E)
    .......................> FBC & DVB-S2X into 90cm dish (27.5W) Opticum robust Unicable LNB
    AX HD61, Edision Osmio 4K+, Zgemma H9Combo, Octagon SF8008 using Legacy ports on multiswitches
    Zgemma H9 C/S into Giga4K

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  15. #12

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    OK done a test on my Gigablue UHD, I have 8 tuners with the default being C, the receiver was playing ITV HD, so I steamed to the laptop via the webini the same channel, the display still showed only tuner c was being used, I then opened the same channel on my phone via kodi and the display also only showed C being used, so 3 devices on the same channel but only 1 tuner in use

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  17. #13

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    Thanks twol and JonMMM!!

    @ JonMMM - yes, thanks for doing your test!

    This behaviour is exactly what I expect to be available on all devices capable of any streaming of a live broadcast feed.

    If the box can stream a live channel to 1 remote client device, it should, by extension be able to deliver that exact same channel to 2,3,4,5 devices ..... limited only by the performance of the network and the capability of the processing hardware at both Server and Client sides.

    So, given that on other devices (e.g. JonMMM's Gigablue UHD) a signle tuner card can server multiple clients .....

    There is either:

    A bug in the Openvix image that is preventing this from working
    OR
    Some yet to be explained hardware reason for the Openvix OS on the Formuler F1 being unable to stream the same live channel to more that 1 client at the same time.

  18. #14

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    You are free to try other images if you think openvix is at fault. I would guess that the drivers are the problem (these are provided by the manufacturer). I don't have one of these boxes to test but I was able to stream to 2 clients from a single DVB-S2 tuner on my zgemma H7S while it was recording from that same channel too.
    Zgemma H7S running OpenVIX 5.4, Darkmotor, Triax TD110 dish, Inverto Black Ultra dual lnb
    LG 50UM7450 4K TV, Pioneer VSX-534 AVR , LG UBK80 4K Bluray & a Playstation 4.

  19. #15

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    Cannot stream live TV (same channel or same transponder/mux) to more than 1 client at the same time

    Quote Originally Posted by ronand View Post
    You are free to try other images if you think openvix is at fault. I would guess that the drivers are the problem (these are provided by the manufacturer). I don't have one of these boxes to test but I was able to stream to 2 clients from a single DVB-S2 tuner on my zgemma H7S while it was recording from that same channel too.
    Really think its down to Formuler rather then OpenViX
    Last edited by Andy_Hazza; 19-06-21 at 19:58.

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