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Thread: no signal when connecting aerail to f plug wall socket but works wth sat dish

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    Question no signal when connecting aerail to f plug wall socket but works wth sat dish

    Hi ,

    I have a dual wall sockets with f plug connections to 2 rooms. The rooms are connected between sockets via coax.

    The sockets work when using a sat connection but do not get signal when connected to terestrial aerail when using f plug to UHF type adaptors, tv says no signal?

    So it likes the sat signal but not the terestrail signal, any ideas whats going on?

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    Maybe the house was wired for twin sat cables like on sky + hd boxes

    Do you have a sat dish with how many outlets?

    Tv would need to use an aerial for a freeview signal and not a sat cable for feed.

    Tvs can have a built in sat tuner and built in rf for freeview.

    Do you have an aerial and sat feed and need a diplexer to split it ?

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    I put the cables in both are coax sockets, one connected to sat dish and the other is left free for any type of connection.

    So the one that is free i connected the arerial to it , ptoblem is it will not pick up signals fomn areial. But if i reconnect is to sat dish it works for sat signals only

    I thought the coax can be used for sat or terestrial signals?

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    Have you checked the aerail is fine? When testing, are you disconnecting any other devices?

    If you disconnect the faceplate, does it work?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALIEN1X View Post
    I put the cables in both are coax sockets, one connected to sat dish and the other is left free for any type of connection.

    So the one that is free i connected the arerial to it , ptoblem is it will not pick up signals fomn areial. But if i reconnect is to sat dish it works for sat signals only

    I thought the coax can be used for sat or terestrial signals?
    Coax can be used for both aerial and satellite. Satellite is the more demanding application so if it works for satellite it is more than adequate for terrestrail (aerial). If you install the correct duplexers at both ends you can actaully send the aerial and satellite down the same cable at the same time. I use F to belling lee (terrestrail TV connection) converters without problems

    What exactly is your configuration?

    Is one outlet from your wall plate connected to one satellite LNB output at the other end (and nothing else)?
    Is the other outlet from your wall plate connected to the the aerial at the other end (and nothing else)?

    You indicate that the wall-plates in the 2 rooms are also connected to each other via coax so how does this work assuming that one wall plate in one room is also connected to both a satellite LNB and aerial? Have you T'd off somewhere or there actually 2 coax from satellite/aerial to room 1 and another two coax from satellite/aerial to room 2.

    Are these wall plates home made F barrels or have they been purchased? -If the latter post a link to the source of the wall-plate.

    Do you get the same results in both rooms?
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (UK Freesat channels), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview channels)

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    The aerial works , the face plates work only when connected to sat dish. It will be much clearer if you see the attached pdf.
    IM trying to get the tv in room2 t pick up the aerial signal when using a looped coax between sockets. See attached.

    It works when use the loop cable to extend the the saterlight signal to room 2 by looping the 2 sat wallplates, but not in the above config when looping the arerial signal between sockets.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by ALIEN1X; 06-01-21 at 22:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALIEN1X View Post
    The aerial works , the face plates work only when connected to sat dish. It will be much clearer if you see the attached pdf.
    IM trying to get the tv in room2 t pick up the aerial signal when using a looped coax between sockets. See attached.

    It works when use the loop cable to extend the the saterlight signal to room 2 by looping the 2 sat wallplates, but not in the above config when looping the arerial signal between sockets.
    To be clear....

    When the TV is plugged into the aerial in Room 1 you can get the signal on TV 1?

    When you then disconnect the wire to TV 1 and then connect to the coax going to room 2 you no longer get a signal on TV 2?

    I assume that TV 1 is disconnected when there is no aerial signal on TV2.
    I assume that you have switched TV 2 to the digital tuner input and not the analogue tuner. Many TVs still cater for both alathough analogue TV in the UK has been turned off.

    From you diagram I see nothing wrong with your basic setup.

    Does the aerial input to room 1 have a wall socket or is it just a flying lead that plugs into the back of TV 1 and when routed to room 2 you use a Belling Lee (coax)to F adapter.
    Last edited by adm; 06-01-21 at 23:58.
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (UK Freesat channels), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview channels)

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    Do you really mean UHF connectors?
    Because they are horrible things invented in the 1930s and, ironically, are not at all suitable for use at what we nowadays call UHF frequencies. Not great for VHF either.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UHF_connector

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    adm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BefuddledBrian View Post
    Do you really mean UHF connectors?
    Because they are horrible things invented in the 1930s and, ironically, are not at all suitable for use at what we nowadays call UHF frequencies. Not great for VHF either.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UHF_connector
    No, Belling Lee - the standard connector that has been used on TVs for decades.

    Code:
    http://www.megalithia.com/elect/bellinglee/index.html
    The adapters
    Code:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F-Type-Coaxial-Female-to-RF-TV-Aerial-Male-Adapter-Satellite-Coax-Connector-Sat/352612381282?epid=5030565518&hash=item521955f262:g:oFEAAOSwTeNfeq7A
    
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F-Type-Coaxial-Female-to-RF-TV-Aerial-Female-Adapter-Satellite-Coax-Connector/352925270000?hash=item522bfc3ff0:g:ydkAAOSwfzJeFdJU
    I'm assuming that the OP has a F to F fly lead to which he can screw on the appropriate adapter to mate with the aerial socket on the wall and to the aerial input on his TV.
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (UK Freesat channels), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview channels)

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    Quote Originally Posted by adm View Post
    To be clear....

    When the TV is plugged into the aerial in Room 1 you can get the signal on TV 1? YES

    When you then disconnect the wire to TV 1 and then connect to the coax going to room 2 you no longer get a signal on TV 2? Correct no signal from aerail (but it accepts sinal from sat dish if i routed the cable to room 2.

    I assume that TV 1 is disconnected when there is no aerial signal on TV2. yes TV 1 is disconnected, I even tried a spliter and tv1 works and not TV 2.
    I assume that you have switched TV 2 to the digital tuner input and not the analogue tuner. Many TVs still cater for both alathough analogue TV in the UK has been turned off. Yes digital tunner when scanning channels

    From you diagram I see nothing wrong with your basic setup.

    Does the aerial input to room 1 have a wall socket or is it just a flying lead that plugs into the back of TV 1 and when routed to room 2 you use a Belling Lee (coax)to F adapter.
    Room 1 has an aerial socket which goes into tv1. So I tried connecting it room 2 but signal dose not go thru

    I have a feeling it could be f plug to rf connectors i got them form ebay ?

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    adm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALIEN1X View Post
    I have a feeling it could be f plug to rf connectors i got them form ebay ?

    All mine have come from Ebay and although some are slightly better finish than others they have been OK.
    Have you screwed then on tight enough? A spanner or a couple of pair of pliers may/will allow you another half to three quarters turn. If the finish on the thread looks a bit rough perhaps smear a TINY bit of grease/vaseline/vicks on the thread before screwing on the F connector.
    Check that you haven't bent the centre pin of the f connector.
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (UK Freesat channels), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview channels)

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    Quote Originally Posted by adm View Post
    All mine have come from Ebay and although some are slightly better finish than others they have been OK.
    Have you screwed then on tight enough? A spanner or a couple of pair of pliers may/will allow you another half to three quarters turn. If the finish on the thread looks a bit rough perhaps smear a TINY bit of grease/vaseline/vicks on the thread before screwing on the F connector.
    Check that you haven't bent the centre pin of the f connector.
    I checked all connections still the same problem in room 2 only

    If sending a saterlite feed I get a signal going thru and gett approx TV 1500 channels fta ON 28E, if sending aerial terestrial signal i only get 12 digitaL channels the rest say no signal.

    I will have to check the wiring in the face plate at both ends and send a pic

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    Bypass the faceplates as the first step of fault-finding. They may be blocking some frequencies.

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    I have attached some photos of cable and connector convertors im using.

    I have attached one of the wall plates in room1 the connection on the left which c with the arrow shown is whats going into room 2 wall plate.

    The connection on the right is what goes straight out to my sat dish and its what i plug my tv with built in sat tunner too.

    Room 2 wall plate was difficut to photo as the wring was tight behind it and I did not want to break anything
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by ALIEN1X; 10-01-21 at 02:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALIEN1X View Post
    I have attached some photos of cable and connector convertors im using.
    A few observations

    The centre connector on the left hand side doesn’t look if its fully under the screw. It seems to be jammed between the screw and the wall of the fixing.

    Coax cable that is crushed or folded as shown in the photo can behave in strange ways in that some frequencies may be effected and others not. It’s also possible to crush a cable with the use of inappropriate cable clips.

    Ideally for digital TV and satellite any faceplate should be fully screened. A faceplate as shown on the photos can be the source of local electrical impulse appearing on the signal.

    However, I’m still not sure why terrestrial TV would be blocked whilst satellite through the same cable and faceplates is OK. For satellite to work there must be a valid DC path to power the LNB and satellite is a much higher frequency than terrestrial TV.

    One possibility is that the aerial signal level is marginal at the socket in room 1 but further attenuated by the time that it has gone through the extra cable to room 2 BUT I wouldn’t expect this to be true for a relatively short length of CT100/WF100/RG6 type (or equivalent) cable between rooms unless there is an inappropriate join in the cable along its run. The satellite output will have a higher signal level so the extra attenuation of signal will not matter.

    Is it possible to use one of the TVs in both rooms to compare the signal levels at the two outputs? You have to use the same TV as the tuners will have different sensitivities and the signal level displayed on each TV will be an arbitrary level that cannot be compared between different manufacturers or models.

    Is the cable run between room 1 and room 2 a continuous length of cable with no intermediate joins? What is the approximate length of the cable? Do you know what type of cable has been used for the run between room1 and room 2?

    Although a very old article you can generally identify different types of cable …..

    Code:
    http://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/articles/coax-cable-quality.shtml
    Does the cable between room 1 and 2 run outside of the house? If so have you included a drip loop in the cable just before bringing it through the wall? Water ingress into or to the end of the cable can have unexpected performance results.

    The drip loop is a slack bit of cable that sits lower than the rest. The whole purpose is to let water pile up at the bottom and drip off. If your cables were tight, water from outside could travel down the wire and get straight into an outlet or faceplate.

    Are you sure on the TV is room 2 that you are actually scanning for the correct transmitter and or the correct frequencies? For instance I have encountered TVs that have more than one mode of scanning. One mode is where the region is first chosen but unfortunately the info the TV had inbuilt was so far out-of-date that it scaned the wrong frequencies. The other mode had to be used which scanned all terrestrial frequencies.


    Although I’m NOT suggesting that you change anything at this stage one easy way of making a fully screened faceplate that just routes the cable through is to fit F plugs to the cables that come through the wall. Drill a blank faceplate to accept F barrel connectors and screw the barrel connectors into the faceplate.


    Code:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-F-Barrel-Connector-Joiner-Coupler-Adaptor-Socket-Sky-Coax-cable-UK-SELLER/123418934233?hash=item1cbc577bd9:g:AzsAAOSwB8Rbvxvd
    
    https://www.screwfix.com/p/1-gang-blanking-plate-white/4104d
    Note: if buying F barrel connectors just make sure the seller is including the fixing nuts and washers. These connectors are also used for joining cables so some (many) sellers will not include the nuts and washers. A deeper back box may also be required.
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (UK Freesat channels), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview channels)

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