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Thread: E2 box, DVBS2 live TV pause/rewind/buffer. What and how?

  1. #16
    CRMS's Avatar
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    >I'm not sure why you got angry at me questioning why you chose....

    Because all I wanted was a simple answer to my original very, very simple question -

    But is there a limit of the timeshift buffer with a 2TB HDD. In my Humax it was just last 2 hours, anything earlier was dropped.

    And singularly failed to get it from you - or your avatar������

    And for further information - the race was in post race interviews, some on D ES1 were in English, RLM commentary in English and I missed part of an English interview because the TV sound was muted and I thought it might be in English. So I unmuted and it was so then thought of using the timeshift record to catch it all.

    Hence my original Q.

    Which you should of answered first before asking your counter question and then adding the advice. Hence my chuffing anger as time and time again here a simple Q gets ignored and I get something else. And it takes repeated posts asking the same question to get the answer.

    So next time if you can't answer the Q, say so first. Eg

    But is there a limit of the timeshift buffer with a 2TB HDD. In my Humax it was just last 2 hours, anything earlier was dropped.

    I don't know. Or yes depends on HDD size, SD HD etc etc.

    You get the drift - right??

    And then add your 1ct of info.

  2. #17
    adm's Avatar
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    Again for info….
    Tuned into BBC 1 HD at approx 00:40 (am) Question of Sport was just finishing, followed by 5 minutes of weather followed by approx 5 hours of BBC News.
    At 6:30 (am) Selected record with the “Timeshift save recording – select event” – 4 events were offered, Question of Sport, Weather, News and the current program being broadcast.
    This resulted in
    Question of sport = 3:15 min:sec
    Weather = 5 min
    News = 26 min - not the expected 5 hours

    So possibly this indicates a timeshift limit per program before the timeshift program buffer gets re-initiated?
    Maybe a time limit or a byte size limit?
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (Sky FTA), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview), Zgemma H9S (satellite)

  3. #18
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    @CRMS - as far as I know there is no coded limit on the size/duration of the timeshift buffer in enigma, irrespective of the size of the disk. There is a setting in the recording menu to reserve a portion of the disk for permanent recording which would prevent timeshift using the entire disk, though. Assuming you are using permanent timeshift (e.g. automatically start timeshift after 10 seconds) then, if there is an event change the timeshift buffer gets saved temporarily and a new buffer is started. Theoretically, you can subsequently select any of the previous temporary buffer files for saving as a named recording providing you have not changed channel. I say theoretically, because it does not always work as you would expect (as @adm found this morning). Timeshift issues have been going on for years as you can find by searching the forum. Many times the issues are machine-specific due to driver problems. It's a bit of a lottery using timeshift if you really want to make a permanent recording. The original author of the timeshift code has tweaked it a bit over the years but it may be that it is overly complex to have it working 100% on all machines and all models. As it is a collaborative project using open source software the focus is on getting the core functionality working on all machine types. Same goes for support and documentation - all volunteers here, so the time may not be available for super high levels of technical documentation. It's easy for Humax to design in a solid timeshift offering on their Foxsat machine as they have total control of the code and the machine drivers and they restrict the functionality to just two hours - so you are out of luck if the event you're watching runs longer than that. On enigma you should be able to timeshift record a lengthy programme given sufficient disk space, but doing a conventional timer recoding is much safer.
    Last edited by Joe_90; 21-09-20 at 12:03.
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  5. #19
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    Not sure why, but I've just had a try. BBC News 24, forced timeshift to start at about 10:32 as I never normally use it.

    Stopped timeshift at about 12:55, 5 minutes before the programme was due to finish.

    Followed the dialogue to save the file, worked ok, saved as BBC News, but it only shows as 62:29 long in movielist.
    However, the actual recording is about 2:22:33 long, plays ok and nothing is actually lost.

    I'll maybe try stopping timeshift after the programme has finished.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccs View Post
    Not sure why, but I've just had a try. BBC News 24, forced timeshift to start at about 10:32 as I never normally use it.

    Stopped timeshift at about 12:55, 5 minutes before the programme was due to finish.

    Followed the dialogue to save the file, worked ok, saved as BBC News, but it only shows as 62:29 long in movielist.
    However, the actual recording is about 2:22:33 long, plays ok and nothing is actually lost.

    I'll maybe try stopping timeshift after the programme has finished.
    Snap
    News = 26 min - not the expected 5 hours
    On checking the actual file
    Reporting 26 minutes but on playing it's 312 minutes = 5.2 hours
    The actuall file size is 11.1G bytes which is expected for approx 5 hours of HD TV.

    Perhaps the OPs 68 minute file is actually 6 hours and the problem is not timeshift itself but the reporting of the time period in the movielist
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (Sky FTA), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview), Zgemma H9S (satellite)

  7. #21
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    @fat-tony. Thank you for such a detailed reply about the issues of OS software. And how much more civilised this conversation would have been if that was your first response.
    I fully accept the limitations and yes record the programme properly. I only quote the Humax as some boffins think that 2 hours TS is enough. Which it probably is. But I'll have a play with TS recording a bit more just to learn my way around.
    Now, how do I add an avatar, not that I want Simpsons, but can't find anything in my profile or after searching except reinstall after an update.

  8. #22
    adm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRMS View Post
    Now, how do I add an avatar, not that I want Simpsons, but can't find anything in my profile
    Top of this page "Settings" - not Profile
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (Sky FTA), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview), Zgemma H9S (satellite)

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  10. #23
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    @ccs, @adm - regarding the invalid time length reported in saved timeshift files; I've noticed this on occasion, where I see a reported length of x minutes, whereas if I actually play the recording it is actually x + sometimes a large number of minutes up to the expected duration. I think it's something to do with the way timeshift merges files together to produce the final recording. All very mysterious as I've never seen a definitive answer from the developers as to how it works. Timeshift is not perfect but it works a good percentage of the time.
    GB Quad Plus, Mut@nt HD51, AX HD61, 80cm dish and Supreme Dark motor. Sony STR-DN 1060, Sony UHP-H1 Bluray, Odroid N2+ (CoreElec), Monitor Audio Bronze 5.1 speakers

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat-tony View Post
    @ccs, @adm - regarding the invalid time length reported in saved timeshift files; I've noticed this on occasion, where I see a reported length of x minutes, whereas if I actually play the recording it is actually x + sometimes a large number of minutes up to the expected duration. I think it's something to do with the way timeshift merges files together to produce the final recording. All very mysterious as I've never seen a definitive answer from the developers as to how it works. Timeshift is not perfect but it works a good percentage of the time.
    Mysterious indeed....

    I timeshifted BBC News 24 14:00-17:00, starting just after 2. Stopped and saved @17:15 when the epg entry had finished.

    Movielist said it was 59 minutes long. When I watched it was 92 minutes long, when I stopped watching I got the message recording (or timeshift?) saved to your harddisc.
    Viewing again the recording was now 3:13:00 long, the full amount, and certainly more than the 3 hour epg entry.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccs View Post
    Viewing again the recording was now 3:13:00 long, the full amount, and certainly more than the 3 hour epg entry.
    It could depend on when the braodcaster inserts the start and stop markers plus perhaps pre and post padding has been added?
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (Sky FTA), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview), Zgemma H9S (satellite)

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by adm View Post
    It could depend on when the braodcaster inserts the start and stop markers plus perhaps pre and post padding has been added?
    It's more to do with the file changing from 92 minutes when I first viewed it (and subsequently stopped playback) to 193 minutes the second time I viewed it.

    92 minutes would have been at about 15:34, no programme stop/starts as it was continuous from 14:00 until 17:00 (at least that's what the epg said).

    I don't see pre+post padding getting involved at all.

  14. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccs View Post
    Mysterious indeed....

    I timeshifted BBC News 24 14:00-17:00, starting just after 2. Stopped and saved @17:15 when the epg entry had finished.

    Movielist said it was 59 minutes long. When I watched it was 92 minutes long, when I stopped watching I got the message recording (or timeshift?) saved to your harddisc.
    Viewing again the recording was now 3:13:00 long, the full amount, and certainly more than the 3 hour epg entry.
    Tried this sequence again, same results.
    After stopping and saving timeshift, I watched and paused the recording via movielist, after about a minute or so the message "timeshift saved to your harddisc" popped up.
    Watched again from movielist, the program bar now showed the complete timeshift recording, no loss at all (before it was roughly half the length.)
    The .ts file hadn't changed in size from when I stopped timeshift, but the .sc file had.

  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccs View Post
    Tried this sequence again, same results.
    After stopping and saving timeshift, I watched and paused the recording via movielist, after about a minute or so the message "timeshift saved to your harddisc" popped up.
    Watched again from movielist, the program bar now showed the complete timeshift recording, no loss at all (before it was roughly half the length.)
    The .ts file hadn't changed in size from when I stopped timeshift, but the .sc file had.
    Wild Speculation
    There is a background speed of deletion setting of 10Mbytes/sec to 100Mbytes/sec for removing items from the movie list (or maybe from the trash folder)*. I wonder if there is a similar background (low) trasfer speed for converting a timeshift file to a record file. Perhaps a 1 hour HD program takes 200 seconds to transfer at 10Mbyes/sec? If you start vieing the file while this is happening you only see the current state of transfer ?

    * movie list -> menu -> settings -> background delete speed
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (Sky FTA), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview), Zgemma H9S (satellite)

  16. #29
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    I posted (#23) about the merging process. I've seen this take some considerable time after a lengthy timeshift. I think what is happening is that it's scanning through the video .TS file(s) and generating the cuts and markers files on the fly while converting to a standard recording filename. I don't think that it is wild speculation to presume that the process is throttled (maybe by the same background delete speed setting) and takes a certain time. I've seen situations where there are two copies of a particular timeshift recording present in the file listing if I decide to change channel while timeshifting and choose the option to continue recording the current channel until the event is over. After the event is finished the two recordings are eventually merged, but it doesn't happen instantaneously.
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  17. #30
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    This is what happens....

    When I stop timeshift and save...

    Code:
    -rw-------    2 root     root     3742048256 Sep 22 11:42 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts
    -rw-r--r--    1 root     root         13328 Sep 22 11:42 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts.ap
    -rw-r--r--    1 root     root           136 Sep 22 11:42 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts.meta
    -rw-r--r--    1 root     root             0 Sep 22 11:42 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts.reconstruct_apsc
    -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        419680 Sep 22 11:42 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts.sc
    Wait for a couple of minutes, the message "timeshift saved to your harddisc" pops up.

    Code:
    -rw-------    2 root     root     3742048256 Sep 22 11:42 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts
    -rw-r--r--    1 root     root         91328 Sep 22 11:44 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts.ap
    -rw-r--r--    1 root     root            12 Sep 22 11:45 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts.cuts
    -rw-r--r--    1 root     root           216 Sep 22 11:45 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts.meta
    -rw-r--r--    1 root     root       2870048 Sep 22 11:44 20200922 0943 - BBC NEWS HD - BBC News.ts.sc
    The programme is 2 hours long, and the Movielist entry now also confirms this. So viewing the file before the .sc file is updated screws things up.

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