ABM (UK-Terrestrail ): Add HD channels/regions REVISTED Bluebell Hill

[adm]

I was seeing something very strange from the Bluebell Hill Terrestrial transmitter where nearly all the channels are devoid of a picture and sound and selecting them gives “Service not found – (SID not found in PAT)” The only channel that appeared to be working is a local Kent channel.

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Bluebell_Hill
says transmitter frequencies change at the end of next month.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragec...E5+9RD/NA/0/NA
Says they have already changed plus it gives some more information on transmitter channel numbers.

My investigation shows that the frequencies/MUX allocations have changed as per the second link PLUS a local mux on transmitter channel 21

I'm running ABM 3.1 and the latest terrestrail_uk_freeview.xml file is now out of date with regards the Bluebell Hill transmitter.

I have modified my copy (attached) and have got the Bluebell Hill transmitter working again in ABM. lamedb file also attached

terrestrial_uk_freeview_mod_for_bluebell_hill.zip

lamedb.zip

[ccs]

Did you try "frequency finder"?

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/s...l=1#post472867

It would be useful to see how you get on, with a clean flash of the latest image and a settings restore of your old Bluebell Hill transmitter values.

[adm]

Did you try "frequency finder"?

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/s...l=1#post472867

As an experiment I have tried it.

The results are not good

It found 12 unique MUXs which were those from Crystal Palace and an incomplete list of those from Bluebell Hill. In my location I can usually get signals from up to 4 different transmitters, weather dependant, with the aerial pointing to Bluebell Hill. Although I can get strong signals from Crystal Palace the proximity of nearby tall building makes them unreliable hence why I only want the Bluebell Hill signals where I have an unrestricted line of sight. Reflections from the tall buildings is probably the reason I can often see 4 transmitters as I have an aerial with a fairly narrow front reception angle and high back rejection.

The terrestrial_finder.xml file generated by the frequency finder contains the frequencies for both Crystal Palace and Bluebell Hill and likely would result in unreliable reception, perhaps not today but during an atmospheric change.

[EMJB]

The terrestrial_finder.xml file generated by the frequency finder contains the frequencies for both Crystal Palace and Bluebell Hill and likely would result in unreliable reception, perhaps not today but during an atmospheric change.

So when the DVB-T frequency finder claims to find unique muxes, it means unique in terms of TsId and rather than unique in terms of services carried?

Is this also true of Terrestrial Scan?


EMJB

[adm]

For info

Here is what frequency finder found for me (attached)

terrestrial_finder.zip

Line numbers when using textpad, other editors may wrap lines.

Line 6 a frequency of 514000000 is channel 26 (entry repeated on line 14)

Line 10 Ch 21 Bluebell Hill Local Service

Line 11 Ch 22 Crystal Palace
Line 12 Ch 23 Crystal Palace
Line 13 Ch 25 Crystal Palace
Line 14 Ch 26 Crystal Palace
Line 15 Ch 28 Crystal Palace
Line 16 Ch 30 Crystal Palace

Line 17 Ch 32 Bluebell Hill
Line 18 Ch 34 Bluebell Hill
Line 19 Ch 45 Bluebell Hill
Line 20 Ch 55 Bluebell Hill
Line 21 Ch 56 Bluebell Hill

Missing is Ch40 Bluebell Hill
Missing is Ch43 Bluebell Hill
Missing is Ch46 Bluebell Hill




Even if a service is duplicated on Crystal Palace I don’t what a scan of CP frequencies which for me can be unreliable.

[Huevos]

Even if a service is duplicated on Crystal Palace I don’t what a scan of CP frequencies which for me can be unreliable.

If you want to be in control of that you need to create your own file manually. No automatic process is going to know what transponder you want to prioritize and why.

[EMJB]

So when the DVB-T frequency finder claims to find unique muxes, it means unique in terms of TsId and rather than unique in terms of services carried?

Is this also true of Terrestrial Scan?


EMJB

Sorry, adm, my questions were aimed at Huevos or someone else who understands what these features are designed to do - I should have made myself clearer.

Looking at the file you posted, I notice that all the signal qualities are the same at $FFFF, as are the ones in my terrestrial_finder.xml on my ET10K. If all the signals are strong that is quite plausible, but in that case I would expect all the Bluebell Hill muxes to have been detected. Pity the signal strength is not logged also, as I assume the logic to determine the optimum mux version will take account of that when qualities are similar. On the other hand it could indicate a problem reporting signal quality by our tuners.

I have also noticed the layout of my file attached is very much simpler than yours, but lack the knowledge to understand the significance of the differences.

EMJB

[adm]

Sorry, adm, my questions were aimed at Huevos or someone else who understands what these features are designed to do - I should have made myself clearer.

Looking at the file you posted, I notice that all the signal qualities are the same at $FFFF, as are the ones in my terrestrial_finder.xml on my ET10K. If all the signals are strong that is quite plausible,

Yes, the Signal to Noise (SNR) is at maximum (100%) on the MUXs from CP and BH and all the Bit Error Rates are reporting as 0.

[Huevos]

So when the DVB-T frequency finder claims to find unique muxes, it means unique in terms of TsId and rather than unique in terms of services carried?

TSID is unique on a network. So in theory if you find 2 muxes with the same TSID on 2 different frequencies they should be identical in every way. And that means for certain the SI tables will be wrong on at least one of them.

[adm]

TSID is unique on a network. So in theory if you find 2 muxes with the same TSID on 2 different frequencies they should be identical in every way. And that means for certain the SI tables will be wrong on at least one of them.

Is that true with relay transmitters? The relay may just copy all the information from the main transmitter from which it gets its data and then re-transmits on a diffent frequency.

[EMJB]

TSID is unique on a network. So in theory if you find 2 muxes with the same TSID on 2 different frequencies they should be identical in every way.

(1) That did not quite answer the question "So when the DVB-T frequency finder claims to find unique muxes, it means unique in terms of TsId and rather than unique in terms of services carried?" - you could have signals from different transmitters with the same services yet different TsIds (especially if "same services" ignores regional variants).

(2) The COM muxes seem to have the same TsId for all regions. All muxes carry the EPG data for all the other muxes in at least the same region. If the TsId really means they are identical in every way then all COM muxes must carry the EPG data for all the regional variants of the regional programmes. Do you believe that is the case? (I understood not, but have not found any evidence to support either view).

EMJB

[birdman]

According to:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/index/dummy/NA/yes.

Bluebell Hill had a "reception change" on August 1st. Perhaps that affected you?

Also:

BLUEBELL HILL transmitter - Freeview: BBC Digital TV Off Air from 18:14 on 17 Aug to 18:51 on 17 Aug, HD Digital TV Off Air from 18:14 on 17 Aug to 18:51 on 17 Aug. [BBC]

[adm]

According to:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/index/dummy/NA/yes.

A site that in the past decade has had much incorrect information It still tells me that my preffered tansmitter is a low power one that cannot be seen from my location.

Bluebell Hill had a "reception change" on August 1st. Perhaps that affected you?

Very possibly
i) I was away for the first couple of weeks in August
ii) I usually watch live (or delayed) TV via satellite
iii) I didn't notice the problem until a day or two ago when all my satellite tuners were busy recording and I was going to use a terrestrial tuner for another timer.
iv) Both my previous sources of reliable transmitter information both show no changes to the transmitter frequencies, or not until the end of next month.
v) I did wonder for a while if it was because ABM had gone to version 3.1. and a configuration update from the menus resulted in a non-compatible version error message. I updated ABM yesterday before proceeding further.
vi) With the current terrestrial_uk_freeview.xml file, configuring ABM for Bluebell Hill, deleting all Bouquets, the lamedb and epg files a subsequent scan did give a Freeview Bouquet that looked correct and the EPG populated again. It’s just there was no associated video or audio. Some of the transmitter frequency allocations are now being reused for different MUXs.
vii) This morning repeating the excersise with the frequency finder in ABM shows it would have been of zero value in my situation as it didn’t find (or maybe rejected) some of the Bluebell Hill MUXs, but all of the unwanted Crystal Palace MUXs. Yesterday I checked with a manual scan on all the documented “new” Bluebell Hill MUX frequencies that they were all active and each resulted in a representative number of expected TV channels being found.

[abu baniaz]

Added here
https://github.com/oe-alliance/AutoB...71ee985094957e

So, no need for Custom transponders apart from the DVB-T2 ones.

[birdman]

Added here
https://github.com/oe-alliance/AutoB...71ee985094957e

Hmmm...an incorrect/out-of-date config file causing end user problems...