EMJB's Terrestrial Channels brainstorm

[EMJB]

I'll ask again. Are you asking all these questions without ever having used the plugin?

If that question is aimed at me, the many of my questions arise from doing just that and writing down the sequence of activities and noting all the menu settings where a newbie might be confused as to the appropriate value, or where there is any suggestion that things might not work as that newbie might expect.

[EMJB]

Of course not. It is not something the box can control. That is down to how the aerial is mounted on the pole. i.e. either correct for your transmitter or wrong.

I agree. It is something that is universal across the UK. As the benefits of using it are so great, I will try to do some research when I have got the user guide done.

[EMJB]

Thanks for the quick reply.

1)
"Official provider" means it was downloaded as part of the plugin. So if you submit your own it can be incorporated into the official one.
"Save the file" means collect the file from your receiver.
The rest I have no idea what you are asking. With this tool the data is always ready to use immediately.

I am querying why it is necessary to "Disable the "official" ABM provider. You can re-enable it after the ABM file has been updated with the details you upload". This sounds to me as if the list of transmitters for the menu is generated when a provider is selected, and not updated until the provider is disabled and re-enabled (or a GUI reboot) - a reasonable design compromise between complexity and the ideal. If that is the case it is a warning that applies whenever updating config files, not just the specific case mentioned here.

2)
I never owned a Topfield and don't intend to. I have no idea what these terms refer to.

I was not suggesting the former, merely that there MAY be a lesson that can be learnt from it that would materially improve the DVB-T Frequency Finder.

3)
Service labels have nothing to do with background scanning. Don't touch the background scan settings unless you know why you are doing it. Service labels update automatically unless dxHoldName is set in lamedb.

Thanks for the clarification.

4)
I don't believe anything is deleted, only that new service will be added. This has nothing to do with bouquets.

So the bouquets are not updated, and therefore the new services will not be available to the user and it will be possible to try to tune into the removed service without getting any warning? It would appear, however that the new services will be available to AutoTimer - correct?

5)
How is this related to the original topic?

Wandering a bit, I agree, but it would seem sensible to get the user to set up everything under the "Tuner Config" heading at one go, rather than depending on some other user guide that probably doesn't exist.

6.1-4)
Yes to all.

Thanks

6.6)
Either download it from github (xmlUpdate plugin can do this for you)
Or update it yourself if you know the details,
Or use TerrestrialScan plugin to do it for you.

Seems reasonable in the context of the Enigma scans being for experienced users only.

Lastly Abu changed several texts from ABM last night based on your suggestions.

Is it too late to suggest the DVB-T Frequency Finder results are labelled with simply "My Transmitter", and the region mentioned in the closing message? Labelling the results with a region requires a little more explanation in the guide, and might lead someone to think they apply across a region whereas I suspect there might be as many as 100 different sets of results for one region.

I am hoping to be in a position to start collecting screenshots by the middle of next week - will the new version be available by then?


EMJB

[Huevos]

I am querying why it is necessary to "Disable the "official" ABM provider. You can re-enable it after the ABM file has been updated with the details you upload". This sounds to me as if the list of transmitters for the menu is generated when a provider is selected, and not updated until the provider is disabled and re-enabled (or a GUI reboot) - a reasonable design compromise between complexity and the ideal. If that is the case it is a warning that applies whenever updating config files, not just the specific case mentioned here.

Why would you want 2 terrestrial providers enabled at the same time? The xml will be reloaded any time the mtime of the xml file is greater than the cache.

I was not suggesting the former, merely that there MAY be a lesson that can be learnt from it that would materially improve the DVB-T Frequency Finder.

I can't see one.

So the bouquets are not updated, and therefore the new services will not be available to the user and it will be possible to try to tune into the removed service without getting any warning? It would appear, however that the new services will be available to AutoTimer - correct?

How could you update bouquets based on an enigma2 scan? How would you know where users want any new channels to appear in their bouquets?

Wandering a bit, I agree, but it would seem sensible to get the user to set up everything under the "Tuner Config" heading at one go, rather than depending on some other user guide that probably doesn't exist.

Personally I find the tuner config for terrestrial completely intuative. It couldn't be simpler. Just enable the tuner in DVB-T2 mode and select your region. What is so difficult about that?

Seems reasonable in the context of the Enigma scans being for experienced users only.

Enigma scans are for everyone. Just open Manual Scan, choose the options you want and press GREEN to start the scan. If you think that is too complicated then descriptive texts should be added in that screen (like I did recently in the tuner config screen) to give users more info about the individual items, and not in a user guide that no one is going to read.

Is it too late to suggest the DVB-T Frequency Finder results are labelled with simply "My Transmitter", and the region mentioned in the closing message? Labelling the results with a region requires a little more explanation in the guide, and might lead someone to think they apply across a region whereas I suspect there might be as many as 100 different sets of results for one region.

For someone that lives in the North-West it makes complete sense the provider is labelled "North West terrestrial". For someone that lives in London it makes complete sense the provider is labelled "London terrestrial".

I am hoping to be in a position to start collecting screenshots by the middle of next week - will the new version be available by then?

I have no idea when the next Release build will be available. Sicilian is in charge of that and he is on holiday.

[EMJB]

Thanks again, Huevos.

Clearly there are two major points of difference between us:

(1) Is a user guide worthwhile? - Obviously a matter of opinion, but I would just like to make the point that the menu descriptions rarely little to help the user where to start, or what do when things go wrong. I think the question of use is a "chicken & egg" problem - if you don't provide them some people manage to find a way by trial and error, and some will just write off OpenVix altogether and recommend other PVR solutions their friends. I would have thought the greatest advantage to you would be that a good guide will reduce the number of lengthy forum threads.

(2) What constitutes an inexperienced/inexpert user? I would be tempted to say one has no more technical knowledge than is required to operate a television set. While that would no doubt please the forum sponsors as it would vastly increase the potential market for the equipment they sell, I think that would be an unrealistic goal in the short term at least. On the other hand creation/editing of bouquets is in my view definitely an "expert" activity from my understanding of available tools and documentation. As using the Enigma2 scans seems rather pointless unless you are prepared to manipulate bouquets, and as you have pointed out ABM is so quick, I view these as having no value to the inexpert.

I will try to complete the basics of my draft guide, and then ask any further questions.

EMJB

[Huevos]

Please explain what is so difficult to understand about this screen.

Manual-Scan.jpg

[birdman]

I'll ask again. Are you asking all these questions without ever having used the plugin?

Probably yes, as I don't use (or expect to need to use) a plugin for a scan.

[birdman]

Please explain what is so difficult to understand about this screen.

I have no problems with that (expect I'm not sure what "Only free scan means", so I never set it).
All I'm asking is why the "Type of Scan" doesn't include "Rescan current muxes only" (and then Region need only in include countries - or similar - not transmitters).

[Huevos]

Probably yes, as I don't use (or expect to need to use) a plugin for a scan.

Well that is up to you. But if you have never used it why are you making such an effort to find fault with the new feature of the plugin?

[Huevos]

I have no problems with that (expect I'm not sure what "Only free scan means", so I never set it).

It skips services where the "FreeCAMode" flag = 1 in the SDT. See attachment.

UNTITLED.jpg

All I'm asking is why the "Type of Scan" doesn't include "Rescan current muxes only" (and then Region need only in include countries - or similar - not transmitters).

Probably because nobody though such a thing was a very clever idea.

Also I added country and region at your request. Why didn't you say this at the time? Would have saved me the hassle.

[birdman]

Well that is up to you. But if you have never used it why are you making such an effort to find fault with the new feature of the plugin?

I'm not. I started by asking about adding a "Save current muxes" and "Use current muxes" to Terrestrial scanning options.

[birdman]

It skips services where the "FreeCAMode" flag = 1 in the SDT. See attachment.

Thanks, although I'd word that as "Only scan free".

Also I added country and region at your request.

Really? All I can recall is submitting the original Sandy Heath data.

Why didn't you say this at the time?

If I'd though about it then I might have done so. But I also don't discount ideas just because they aren't the ones first thought of and implemented.

[Huevos]

I think 'don't scan encrypted services' might be better. And as I said in post 34 hints text could be added to this screen.

[abu baniaz]

@EMJB
I have uploaded the latest ABM here for your screenshots
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/s...e-installation

[abu baniaz]

@EMJB

I am getting lost in the threads. There are three separate process and I don't know which you are doing/asking about. The continued mix-matching does not help. Huevos did say in the first response he made in this thread to use terrestrial scan plugin. That would have been adequate for any setup.

With regards to tuner configuration:
You may wish to advise your audience to set tuner to the following unless they are in a clash region and :
Country: UK
Region: All regions (United Kingdom..."

The above does not matter if using ABM plugin
The above does not matter if using terrestrial scan plugin

ABM does not use terrestrial.xml
The xml file in /etc/enigma2/ will take precedence over the system one. As the created xml file will only have the frequencies valid at that location and point in time, that will be the one selected.

As a note, once you have channels, you can set your tuner configuration to Mars or Jupiter if you want, it won't make a difference to tuning.