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  1. #76
    Moderator Huevos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    Which could easily be the ones that it is currently using. If there were a way to save this list.
    (EDIT: ...or just parse the current lamedb file?).
    How is that of any help as a workaround for a frequency change?

  2. #77
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    @ Huevos

    Thank you for taking the trouble for such a long and comprehensive reply.

    I note that you consider that ABM does scan, so at least that clears one of the issues that has caused much of the friction in this thread. Now that we know there are two types of scan, your suggestion of "ABM scan" and "Enigma2 Scan" seems very sensible, but I don't know how you can undo the misunderstandings if someone just reads part of this thread (unless you delete the whole thing!).

    In your section "ABM "scan", area details unknown or incorrect in ABM provider xml file. Clash or non-clash areas." you state that "In ABM, go to dvb-t frequency finder.This will probe (tune and check reception) the band plan selected and list the most powerful signals only". To avoid problems, one needs to ensure there are never two versions of the same mux, even if they are of similar power, which is not trivial as they may have different transport stream IDs - my look at the code indicated that this was not the case but I would be delighted to be assured I was wrong. Could you please clarify?

    Even if the muxes are not duplicated there is a remote possibility of problems that was experienced on the Topfield receivers - if the muxes are received from different regions the programme information (EPG in my terminology) will differ for BBC1 & ITV according to which mux is currently being used for EPG data collection, which IIRC caused confusion in the EPG collection process when changing mux - unfortunately I cannot recall the details.

    The subject of user guides is a sore subject with me, and probably many of the ex-Topfield community where user guides for the plug-in equivalents were given the same priority as the code - after all what is the point of magnificent code if no-one knows what it can do and how to use it? I also believe that the act of producing such guides is good at picking up holes in the software logic. I appreciate it is considered a pain by many programmers, particularly keeping it up-to-date. Unfortunately the use of separate threads for parts of features such as ABM is of limited use to newbies - how are they to know that they need to read the thread to which you linked. Interestingly, your long post is actually the nearest thing I have seen to help someone get started.

    EMJB
    Xtrend Xt10000 with 3 Freeview tuners

  3. #78
    Moderator Huevos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMJB View Post
    In your section "ABM "scan", area details unknown or incorrect in ABM provider xml file. Clash or non-clash areas." you state that "In ABM, go to dvb-t frequency finder.This will probe (tune and check reception) the band plan selected and list the most powerful signals only". To avoid problems, one needs to ensure there are never two versions of the same mux, even if they are of similar power, which is not trivial as they may have different transport stream IDs - my look at the code indicated that this was not the case but I would be delighted to be assured I was wrong.
    Not sure what you are asking here. If the mux is identical it will have the same TSID. If it is very similar but not identical it will have a different TSID. If you use ABM to do the scan it will select the correct muxes for the area you are trying to search.

  4. #79
    ViX Beta Tester birdman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    How is that of any help as a workaround for a frequency change?
    Because all you'd need to do then is to do a full scan (once) to get "your" new frequencies and from then on you use them again in a quick scan.
    No configuration file (beyond a generic "Freeview UK uses 8MHz steps between x and y, etc.) is needed, so nothing to get out of date.
    Which is the only point I'm making in this thread. One set of code to scan and no per-transmitter config data needed.
    MiracleBox Prem Twin HD - 2@DVB-T2 + Xtrend et8000 - 5(incl. 2 different USBs)@DVB-T2[terrestrial - UK Freeview HD, Sandy Heath] - LAN/USB-stick/HDD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    Not sure what you are asking here. If the mux is identical it will have the same TSID. If it is very similar but not identical it will have a different TSID. If you use ABM to do the scan it will select the correct muxes for the area you are trying to search.
    My concerns have obviously got lost among the shambles of this thread, and were somewhat off-topic anyway. For that reason a few days ago I started a separate thread @ https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59831, which has failed to elicit any clarification of what ABM etc do. I will endeavour to answer your question in that thread with a "thought experiment" that hopefully will help you understand my concerns about user information and technical operation, but that might take a day or so.

    EMJB
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    Moderator Huevos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    Because all you'd need to do then is to do a full scan (once) to get "your" new frequencies and from then on you use them again in a quick scan.
    No configuration file (beyond a generic "Freeview UK uses 8MHz steps between x and y, etc.) is needed, so nothing to get out of date.
    Which is the only point I'm making in this thread. One set of code to scan and no per-transmitter config data needed.
    Birdman, as already explained...
    Use TerrestrialScan to do an exhaustive search and create a terrestrial.xml that is customised to your location. That will then be used for all future scans. If later there is a frequency change, run the exhaustive search again.

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    ViX Beta Tester birdman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    Birdman, as already explained...
    Use TerrestrialScan to do an exhaustive search and create a terrestrial.xml that is customised to your location. That will then be used for all future scans. If later there is a frequency change, run the exhaustive search again.
    And, as I'm continually asking (it's what this thread was about....), why is this not the default (and only) way to scan for terrestrial channels with the config file (and code) to set a transmitter removed as "not required"?
    MiracleBox Prem Twin HD - 2@DVB-T2 + Xtrend et8000 - 5(incl. 2 different USBs)@DVB-T2[terrestrial - UK Freeview HD, Sandy Heath] - LAN/USB-stick/HDD

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    Moderator Huevos's Avatar

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    As already explained, if you want to do an exhaustive enigma2 scan, use the Europe settings. If you want to scan just a particular group of muxes make sure the terrestrial.xml is up to date and scan just those muxes.

  9. #84
    Moderator abu baniaz's Avatar

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    it's what this thread was about....
    Wasn't this thread about creating files to use with ABM?

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    ViX Beta Tester birdman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by abu baniaz View Post
    Wasn't this thread about creating files to use with ABM?
    Not if you look at the first post in the thread.
    MiracleBox Prem Twin HD - 2@DVB-T2 + Xtrend et8000 - 5(incl. 2 different USBs)@DVB-T2[terrestrial - UK Freeview HD, Sandy Heath] - LAN/USB-stick/HDD

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    ViX Beta Tester birdman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    As already explained, if you want to do an exhaustive enigma2 scan, use the Europe settings. If you want to scan just a particular group of muxes make sure the terrestrial.xml is up to date and scan just those muxes.
    You appear to be missing the point I'm making, even though I've made it several times.

    It's not about what I can do, it's about what other users can do.

    terrestrial.xml can't be up to date on the day that frequencies change for a transmitter as it requires someone to work out what they should be, submit them and these to be made available. The file is also incomplete (it doesn't have data for all transmitters) - at least that was the reported state a few months ago.

    You could completely remove the need for terrestrial.xml if terrestrial scanning consisted of just:
    1. do a full scan once
    2. save the list of found channels/frequencies/transponders (it's in lamedb anyway...)
    3. for service changes just rescan the list from 2.
    4. for (much less common) transmitter frequency changes just re-run a full scan

    This means no config file maintenance needed and it works for everyone (there is no data needed at all, so it can't be incomplete).
    MiracleBox Prem Twin HD - 2@DVB-T2 + Xtrend et8000 - 5(incl. 2 different USBs)@DVB-T2[terrestrial - UK Freeview HD, Sandy Heath] - LAN/USB-stick/HDD

  12. #87
    Moderator Huevos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    Not if you look at the first post in the thread.
    Actually that was the second post. It was split because you were posting in the (closed) sticky.

  13. #88
    Moderator Huevos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    You appear to be missing the point I'm making, even though I've made it several times.
    I'm not missing anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    terrestrial.xml can't be up to date on the day that frequencies change for a transmitter as it requires someone to work out what they should be, submit them and these to be made available.
    As you already pointed out the data is available in advance so can be made available immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    The file is also incomplete (it doesn't have data for all transmitters) - at least that was the reported state a few months ago.
    Then people need to submit PR's. It's no good whining about data not being complete and then not supplying the data, or supplying it in a form that increases our already overstretched workload.

    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    You could completely remove the need for terrestrial.xml if terrestrial scanning consisted of just:
    1. do a full scan once
    2. save the list of found channels/frequencies/transponders (it's in lamedb anyway...)
    3. for service changes just rescan the list from 2.
    4. for (much less common) transmitter frequency changes just re-run a full scan
    .
    This is exactly what TerrestrialScan plugin does except it uses the correct file to store the exhaustive search for future searches, i.e. terrestrial.xml, not lamedb. And BTW, the enigma2 exhaustive search is done from values in terrestrial.xml so you can't "remove the need for terrestrial.xml".

    And the whole reason for terrestrial.xml is because different regions use different bandplans. The individual masts in terrestrial.xml are just icing. If you don't want to use them don't use them but they are there for people that do.
    Last edited by Huevos; 11-08-18 at 10:16.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    As you already pointed out the data [terrestrial.xml] is available before the changes occur so it can be available immediately.
    How does that work???

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    Moderator Huevos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccs View Post
    How does that work???
    I'm not sure how to explain it clearer than has already been done in this thread.

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