Hello Guest, if you are reading this it means you have not registered yet. Please take a second, Click here to register, and in a few simple steps you will be able to enjoy our community and use our OpenViX support section.
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 53

Thread: Recording subtitles

  1. #16
    birdman's Avatar
    Title
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Hitchin, UK
    Posts
    7,769
    Thanks
    235
    Thanked 1,656 Times in 1,305 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob van der Does View Post
    Nope, you can't. Maybe it depends on which BBC-service you are?
    But although the quality of the titles is less, you can also use the DVB-titles, and synchronise them the same way.
    I only have DVB ones too (UK Freeview). I've just tested things out on various recordings from BBC ONE HD, BBC FOUR HD, Dave and Film4. All look fine. The Dave ones slightly out but increasing the delay by 1s fixed that.

    I was intrigued to see that there are apparently subtitles (i.e. there is s subtitle stream) on the foreign-language Detective/Drama series which BBC Four shows (Sat - 9pm) but switching them on/off has no effect at all. Presumably those subtitles are merged into the video.
    Last edited by birdman; 21-10-16 at 20:58.
    MiracleBox Prem Twin HD - 2@DVB-T2 + Xtrend et8000 - 5(incl. 2 different USBs)@DVB-T2[terrestrial - UK Freeview HD, Sandy Heath] - LAN/USB-stick/HDD

  2. #17
    Rob van der Does's Avatar
    Title
    ViX Beta Tester
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands & France
    Posts
    36,259
    Thanks
    1,717
    Thanked 9,461 Times in 6,675 Posts
    And what if you just scan 28.2E and go to those services (BBC/ITV)? They really do have TeleText as well, I always use TT (for the reason I gave earlier: far superior to DVB).
    UK TV-show in foreign language has indeed English subtitles 'burned' in the video.

    Help asked via PM will be ignored.
    The forum is there for help and all will benefit from your questions.
    NO CARD SHARING TALK WILL BE TOLERATED, LAN OR WAN, IN OPEN FORUM OR PM !

    English is not my native tongue.
    I apologise for all my grammar, spelling and idiom errors.

  3. #18
    birdman's Avatar
    Title
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Hitchin, UK
    Posts
    7,769
    Thanks
    235
    Thanked 1,656 Times in 1,305 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob van der Does View Post
    And what if you just scan 28.2E and go to those services (BBC/ITV)?
    That wouldn't be Freeview - that would be Freesat.
    And I have no satellite dish.
    MiracleBox Prem Twin HD - 2@DVB-T2 + Xtrend et8000 - 5(incl. 2 different USBs)@DVB-T2[terrestrial - UK Freeview HD, Sandy Heath] - LAN/USB-stick/HDD

  4. #19

    Title
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    305
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 76 Times in 58 Posts
    The only issue I have found, is if you watch or record something that is broardcast "live" like say "the last leg" or "x-factor" then the subtitles are massively OOS but you would expect that as they are being written "On the fly" as it were?

  5. #20
    Rob van der Does's Avatar
    Title
    ViX Beta Tester
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands & France
    Posts
    36,259
    Thanks
    1,717
    Thanked 9,461 Times in 6,675 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by birdman View Post
    That wouldn't be Freeview - that would be Freesat.
    Oops, have I been mislead by 'Freeview' & 'Freesat'
    Anyway: for the timing issue this makes no difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ford1 View Post
    The only issue I have found, is if you watch or record something that is broardcast "live" like say "the last leg" or "x-factor" then the subtitles are massively OOS but you would expect that as they are being written "On the fly" as it were?
    That's indeed 'live typing' (imagine how good you have to listen and type for that. And in other countries often translating as well!), so not related to synchronisation issues.

    Help asked via PM will be ignored.
    The forum is there for help and all will benefit from your questions.
    NO CARD SHARING TALK WILL BE TOLERATED, LAN OR WAN, IN OPEN FORUM OR PM !

    English is not my native tongue.
    I apologise for all my grammar, spelling and idiom errors.

  6. #21

    Title
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    305
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 76 Times in 58 Posts
    no, not related to sync issue, but as the op never stated the programs he was suffering with, this could have been the problem he was facing all along?

  7. #22

    Title
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Hi. It was not a live progamme problem, Ford1. We never use subtitles with those because of exactly the problem you have highlighted.

    The problem I have experienced is with Free-to-Air Freeview. I am on the Crystal Palace transmitter. The only subtitles available are DVB, at least for every channel I have tried them on. Out of the box, (Miraclebox Premium Twin Plus+ with the latest OpenVix) none of the recorded subtitles were correctly synced with video -- and that was on BBC1 as well as others. For one Channel 4 recording, I needed more than 20 seconds of delay to sync them. Since OpenVix only allows up to 20 seconds, it was therefore impossible.

    The box has gone back now. I am afraid I do not have the patience to set about syncing each channel individually as I switch from recording to recording. Perhaps I am unique in experiencing this issue and there was a problem with the way my box was set up. But, as I said, it appeared to be there from the outset, even after a factory reset.

    PaulAB

  8. #23
    adm's Avatar
    Title
    Forum Supporter
    Donated Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Southend on Sea, UK
    Posts
    1,636
    Thanks
    62
    Thanked 647 Times in 505 Posts
    In the last hour I've recorded a series of 10 minute program snippets from various channels on Freeview (Bluebell Hill Transmitter). All the DVB subtitles seem to be near as makes no difference in sync using the default Vix settings. When I checked the other night the same was true for recordings made from satellite (Freesat channels). I have two of each tuners in my Extrend.
    Xtrend ET10K, 2 x satellite tuners 28.2 (Sky FTA), 2 x hybrid (UK Freeview), Zgemma H9S (satellite)

  9. #24
    Rob van der Does's Avatar
    Title
    ViX Beta Tester
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands & France
    Posts
    36,259
    Thanks
    1,717
    Thanked 9,461 Times in 6,675 Posts
    If changing the delay-settings makes no difference, that means that the titles actually do have a time stamp.

    Help asked via PM will be ignored.
    The forum is there for help and all will benefit from your questions.
    NO CARD SHARING TALK WILL BE TOLERATED, LAN OR WAN, IN OPEN FORUM OR PM !

    English is not my native tongue.
    I apologise for all my grammar, spelling and idiom errors.

  10. #25
    ccs's Avatar
    Title
    ViX Beta Tester
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    5,836
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 1,276 Times in 1,089 Posts
    I had a quick try this morning and found that bbc2, itv, ch4 broadcasting "live" (pre-recorded HD) was 100% fine.

    A bbc1 HD recording from last night was about 5 seconds behind. (Belmont freeview.)

    That was as far as I got. Default settings used.

  11. #26

    Title
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    One this I did not check, because it never occurred to me, was if the problem was affected by the aerial source. My aerial feeds into a Humax and then out to the TV. I simply disconnected the TV and connected the humax aerial out to the Miraclebox. I would not have thought that could have any effect. Could it? I have had two UK freeview boxes in series before and never noticed and issue.

    Is there a different may of handling subtitle timing on recordings? Of the two Freeview boxes I have had extensive experience with, the Topfield 5800 never showed any timing issues with subtitles on any channels during more than ten years, so far as I can recall. The Humax (HDR2000T) is fine on BBC but it has issues on some other channels. (But that is of a different nature. The subtitles sometimes rush ahead as if they have lost their way, but they eventually sync again -- usually). That would suggest to me -- if timing is the problem -- that Humax and Topfield have found a way to deal with recordings with poor timing signals without ending up with a delay.

    PaulAB

  12. #27
    Rob van der Does's Avatar
    Title
    ViX Beta Tester
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands & France
    Posts
    36,259
    Thanks
    1,717
    Thanked 9,461 Times in 6,675 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob van der Does View Post
    Just to make clear what happens: all Enigma2-STB's record the complete TS (transport stream), so that includes all (audio/video/data) what the provider has mixed in his transmission.
    e.g. when the provider supports TeleText, that's also available during playback. And the same applies to subtitles.
    BBC (1/2/3/ SD/HD) has both DVB & teletext subtitles: I use them all the time and they work perfect. The TeleText subtitles are the ones you should use, as E2 does a perfect job in grabbing them and displaying them exactly as you want, while DVB-subtitles are just graphical overlays in which we can only change the colour.

    The problem with subtitles is, that the provider sometimes send them without a time stamp (or with wrong time stamps). That means they are not ordered to show at a specific time or at the wrong time. During live-TV this is not a problem: they will be shown at the very moment they are received, which will be correct most of the time. But during playback the lack of timings play havoc, as you've seen yourself. BBC used to be very good in this respect, but lately they tend to 'forget' the timings. IMHO a matter of quality control.
    But: the good news is that ViX allows you to correct that (although the correction can be different per show). Just play around with the delay settings ...
    It is indeed possible that FreeView/Sky/Freesat/Topfield (and possibly more) STB's are not hampered by subtitle timing issues. They are 'closed source' devices, which means that the manufacturer has all the ins and outs of the complete SoC and the way a TS is handled. That means amongst others that they can look into the demuxer, and actually add a timestamp (i.e. the moment the titles are received). As you may know all STB's we support have closed source drivers, so we are not able to do the same. We just have to rely on what the SoC actually does when saving a TS.

    Help asked via PM will be ignored.
    The forum is there for help and all will benefit from your questions.
    NO CARD SHARING TALK WILL BE TOLERATED, LAN OR WAN, IN OPEN FORUM OR PM !

    English is not my native tongue.
    I apologise for all my grammar, spelling and idiom errors.

  13. #28

    Title
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    11
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Would it be possible for OpenVix to gain access to any of the closed source drivers in order to be able to add a time stamp?

    There is another solution, used I think by Panasonic on its Freeview boxes. When you schedule a recording the software asks if you want subtitles. If you select them then the subtitles are 'printed' onto the recording, like subtitles on a foreign language film. Afterwards, they are always on, but they are synchronised. Would it be possible to implement a system like that in OpenVix.

    PaulAB

  14. #29
    Rob van der Does's Avatar
    Title
    ViX Beta Tester
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands & France
    Posts
    36,259
    Thanks
    1,717
    Thanked 9,461 Times in 6,675 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by paulab View Post
    Would it be possible for OpenVix to gain access to any of the closed source drivers in order to be able to add a time stamp?
    No; that's by definition impossible for closed source...

    Quote Originally Posted by paulab View Post
    There is another solution, used I think by Panasonic on its Freeview boxes. When you schedule a recording the software asks if you want subtitles. If you select them then the subtitles are 'printed' onto the recording, like subtitles on a foreign language film. Afterwards, they are always on, but they are synchronised. Would it be possible to implement a system like that in OpenVix.
    Sounds extremely invoking to the existing functionality, and certainly not something that can be done by a hobby-team. And besides: does the Panasonic ask which titles should be kept that way? Some services have subtitles for over 10 different languages (obviously a Freeview-only box will not be hampered by such a service).

    Help asked via PM will be ignored.
    The forum is there for help and all will benefit from your questions.
    NO CARD SHARING TALK WILL BE TOLERATED, LAN OR WAN, IN OPEN FORUM OR PM !

    English is not my native tongue.
    I apologise for all my grammar, spelling and idiom errors.

  15. #30
    ccs's Avatar
    Title
    ViX Beta Tester
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    5,836
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 1,276 Times in 1,089 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ccs View Post
    I had a quick try this morning and found that bbc2, itv, ch4 broadcasting "live" (pre-recorded HD) was 100% fine.

    A bbc1 HD recording from last night was about 5 seconds behind. (Belmont freeview.)

    That was as far as I got. Default settings used.
    Just a minor update.

    The bbc1 HD programme I referred to was infact the Graham Norton Show.
    Not only were the subtitles 5 seconds slow, but, in the main, they were appearing in single words rather than sentences or phrases.
    Almost impossible to follow.

    I've now recorded last nights show in HD and SD, and both recordings are pretty much in sync, maybe a second behind.

    Other bbc1/itv recordings I've tried are pretty much 100% ok.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
This website uses cookies
We use cookies to store session information to facilitate remembering your login information, to allow you to save website preferences, to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners.