Technical question re: lamedb & userbouquet

[Tw4T]

Hi guys, Since my PC is out of action and I`m running Linux at the moment I have been having a look at the files stored in /enigma2 to get a better understanding of how things work. I now know that each userbouquet.***.tv is related to what is in bouquets.tv. However, is each userbouquet.***.tv related to what is in lamedb?
The reason I ask is, I have recently done a full (motor) manual scan on my box and have yet to set any favorites, I have downloaded SGTFlipFlop ENiGMA2 18.03.11 to have a look at how the favorite settings work. I am wanting to copy the userbouquet.***.tv & bouquets.tv from FlipFlop over to my box but am unsure if these files relate to lamedb in anyway. I have checked FlipFlops lamedb against mine and they are very different. I dont want to copy over FlipFlops lamedb incase it buggers up my other satellite possitions. Is it OK; in the sence that it will work, to just copy over the bouquet files, or is lamedb (which I have a feeling is related) required as well?
Thanks again for your invaluble help :)

[Larry-G]

every lamedb file is unique to it's own bouquet file, how this exactly relates to the bouquet i'm uncertain, copying over the files in the way you want to will not work, you can not mix and match the files in the way you are thinking. to edit the bouquets you must either do it via the receiver or use a dedicated programme such as dreambox edit.

now if i'm wrong i accept that but in all honesty you'r looking at spending vast amounts of time messing with files where you could do the same task in mere minutes using one of the custom made GUI programmes such as dreambox edit. saying that some one always has to be the first to do / discover some thing new / some new way to do things. so the best way might be to backup your existing files and try for your self.

[Tw4T]

Thats what I thought. Ill mess about with it for a bit today (got nowt else to do on a Sunday) and if all else fails I`ll borrow a mates laptop and do as you suggest. Cheers mate

[Tw4T]

So its technically not possible to have both Vhannibal E2 Motor AND SGTFlipFlop ENiGMA2 settings on the same box ? They both have there advantages and it would be great to incorperate them. I`m torn between Vhannibal for its comprehensive listings and FlipFlops for its "Same as Sky" listings. Hmmm

[punisher]

you can but you need to use a dedicated programme like pheonix said above in order to get what you are asking for ... its not possible any other way ... or atleast im not aware of another way

[Larry-G]

So its technically not possible to have both Vhannibal E2 Motor AND SGTFlipFlop ENiGMA2 settings on the same box ? They both have there advantages and it would be great to incorperate them. I`m torn between Vhannibal for its comprehensive listings and FlipFlops for its "Same as Sky" listings. Hmmm

not in the way your thinking no.
you can however use dreambox edit or a similar programme to merge several packs together, taking the parts you want from each. the way your thinking of just would not work.

for example using one of the apps listed, you can remove the 28.2 listings from the vhannibal pack and replace it with the SGTFlipFlop ones. i used to do this my self with the vhannibal pack and the B16MCC sky packs.

[Tw4T]

I see, sounds a bit complicated, but Ill give it a go once I get my hands on a Windows laptop. Unless you know of a source for said settings ? I just cant get any of the Settings Editors working under Wine (Linux).

[Larry-G]

I see, sounds a bit complicated, but Ill give it a go once I get my hands on a Windows laptop. Unless you know of a source for said settings ? I just cant get any of the Settings Editors working under Wine (Linux).

sadly i have yet to come across any for linux systems, i will continue to look and if i do find one i'll let you know.

[shelf]

I see, sounds a bit complicated, but Ill give it a go once I get my hands on a Windows laptop. Unless you know of a source for said settings ? I just cant get any of the Settings Editors working under Wine (Linux).

Dreambox edit works fine with wine. I use it all the time. I'm using wine 1.3.16 but it has worked fine for as long as I can remember. I currently use the version from this page (http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?5437-DreamBoxEdit-IHAD-Edition-4.0.1.2) without setup.

[Tw4T]

Ok thanks, Ill try that out. In the mean time ive sort of got it working, I copied the files over from Catseye (Seems to have the best listings as far as I can tell without using DBedit) to my box, that left me with blanks in the favorites section, I then done a manual scan on all satellites, took about 30mins, I now have most of the favorites showing, theres still a few "N/A" showing up here and there but untill I get hold of a Windows machine, or get Wine working, Ill stick with what I have at the min. Cheers again guys. Id be lost with out you ;)

[silverfox0786]

i've only skim read this but i'll try explain

a satellite.xml hold all transponder frequencies only [the raw frequencies with out bells and whistles]

when u perform a scan using the xml to call the frequencies you get yr channels which then have the pids SR etc etc etc

each transponder can hold many channels with different pids SR etc etc

now they need to go and save somewhere

so they get saved and stored in a lamedb [database] with there espective pids tids SR

This then lamedb is not in any order unless sorted so

the userbouquets come into effect taking from the lamedb and putting them in an order of yr choice like silverfox0786 sly uk sets which then stay uneffected by any scans done afterwards

so with that said you can mix up these 3 items but you will not get the bestfrom them as

if xml is missing transponders it will not scan if lame db has not got all channels they will be missing and if u have too many then u have unessasarry channels

and as a result they will give you

service not found in PAT

:D

[Tw4T]

OK, I think I understand. So once a settings file has been put in place (SGTFlipFlop for example) and a few days/weeks later I want to do another scan to see if theres any new channels, I would just need to copy over a new xml file and rescan, thus updating (if needed) the lamedb but keeping the original settings in place (and just adding new info to the lamedb if there is any). This way any userbouquet files that where there previous to the new scan would still work ? Pheww, I hope Ive got that right. Thanks for explaining in in more detail :)

[silverfox0786]

OK, I think I understand. So once a settings file has been put in place (SGTFlipFlop for example) and a few days/weeks later I want to do another scan to see if theres any new channels, I would just need to copy over a new xml file and rescan, thus updating (if needed) the lamedb but keeping the original settings in place (and just adding new info to the lamedb if there is any). This way any userbouquet files that where there previous to the new scan would still work ? Pheww, I hope Ive got that right. Thanks for explaining in in more detail :)

yep pretty much u got it

just remembering when doing a rescan if chanel frequesncies change then the user bouquet will stay unchanged and you must delete the dead chanels and add the new ones into the user bouquet

[punisher]

is there no automated way of doing this, like when you updates the frequencies, then they also update those frequencies in the bouquet?

[silverfox0786]

is there no automated way of doing this, like when you updates the frequencies, then they also update those frequencies in the bouquet?

no mate bouquets are totally different to anything else

they are a user sort wher as the channels will be available there and then

its just like non linux boxes wher after a scan u use yr remote to sort the channels

[Tw4T]

Just one final question, Why is the lamedb different in different settings packs? Ie. If the lamedb is writen from an xml scan, surely it should be the same no mater what pack is initialy used, thus allowing bouquets to be mixed and matched ? Basicly, why is the data writen to the lamedb different for different packs? Is the data writen randomly? Its the only thing I cant get my head around

[silverfox0786]

its different only to the point that each lamedb has the channels on it tha are pulled from each satellite.xml

lamedb can be mixed but will be pointless to do as if i had a dish with a monoblock with 28.2e and 13e and used a sat.xml with 28.2e and 13e and yet used a lame db and bouquet lets say cateseye then i would yes have my 28.2e and 13e but also the other satellites and channels that i dont need.

not only is it pointless but it will put loads of channels on yr box that are not needed and that dont even work

and you will get SID not found in PAT or Tuner Error and most likly u will post here saying whats going on with out realsiing its yr own error

lamedb is not random data its basically each and every channel that has been scanned on the receiver stored in 1 place

[Tw4T]

I think im getting there ;) I understand how it works now, but, if theres a lamedb from an xml that has all satellites listed in it, the lamedb would be as complete as it can be, right? If so, is it not possible to use differnt bouquets from differnt packs as theoreticly, the lamedb will be complete, so any bouquet should have a coresponding entry in the lamedb. I know its much easier and recomended to use dedicated software, I just like to know how things work under the hood. Cheers again :)

[Larry-G]

I think im getting there ;) I understand how it works now, but, if theres a lamedb from an xml that has all satellites listed in it, the lamedb would be as complete as it can be, right? If so, is it not possible to use differnt bouquets from differnt packs as theoreticly, the lamedb will be complete, so any bouquet should have a coresponding entry in the lamedb. I know its much easier and recomended to use dedicated software, I just like to know how things work under the hood. Cheers again :)

nowt wrong with learning how to do things differently, you never know you may be the one who comes up with the first linux based editor instead of having to emulate a windows app using wine.

[Tw4T]

I just need to find out what the "connection" is between a channel listing in a bouquet and the listing in the lamedb. A job for tomorow I think tho.

[silverfox0786]

ther is no connection mate

the lamebd is a database of channels scanned

the bouquet is just all those channels sorted into catagories

but they need to both be present well the lamedb needs to be present for the bouquets to read from it

[Tw4T]

What I mean is, what section of lamedb is relevent to each channel in the bouquet. IE. what part of lamedb relates to
#NAME Arabsat
#SERVICE 1:64:618:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:
#DESCRIPTION ===ARABSAT Entertainment===
#SERVICE 1:0:1:1b9:12d:2be:1040000:0:0:0:

for example. Like I said, im going to take a look tomorow.

Edit: is post post #18 close to the mark. The reason im asking is I may put my (moderate) coding skills to the test.

[silverfox0786]

What I mean is, what section of lamedb is relevent to each channel in the bouquet. IE. what part of lamedb relates to
#NAME Arabsat
#SERVICE 1:64:618:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:
#DESCRIPTION ===ARABSAT Entertainment===
#SERVICE 1:0:1:1b9:12d:2be:1040000:0:0:0:

for example. Like I said, im going to take a look tomorow.

yes mate all of that and the rest is all in the lame db it hold all that information