View Full Version : No Satellite signal on New TV
Hi all,
I recently changed my parents TV from an old 1080p Hanspree 28" to new Sony W800 32" model (1366 x 768).
The TV is fed by a Gigablue Trio 4k box with a terrestrial and satellite feed.
On the Hanspree all looks good. When I switch the HDMI cable to the W800 model, only the terrestrial channels work.
The satellite channels all show 0% signal.
All I moved was the HDMI cable and amended no settings.
When I switched back to the old TV all is good again.
This has me completely stumped and I am out of ideas.
I have tried:
1) Setting the A/V settings to 720p (no sat signal on Gigablue).
2) Connecting the SAT cable directly to the TV (bypassing the Gigablue). The TV tuning shows no signal
3) Connected it to a 3 year old LG cheap TV (no sat signal on Gigablue)
4) Different HDMI cables give the same result
It makes no sense to me as the HDMI cable should not affect the SAT signal at the Gigablue, it should just supply the video
If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.
Thanks
It's possible that the terrestrial channels are SD and the satellite channels are HD and the Gigablue is outputting in HD. 1366x768 is a very odd resolution for a new TV - more like a PC setting.
Silly selling tvs as HD ready and not full HD.
Did you remove the sat cables and refitted them when box is powered off.
Possible fault with lnb or cable or dish has moved.
I had a quick look at the specs. The native resolution of the panel is indeed 1366x768. I suppose it's because of the small screen size. It does accept a full 1920x1080 p50 signal, though. It also accepts a 720p signal. Have you tried with the Gigablue set to 1920x1080i/p at 50Hz?
Thanks both.
I'd be fairly sure i connected the sat cable with the box off but will retry. I'm pretty sure the tv was off when i connected it directly.
The resolution is strange alright. The whole 32" tv market is a bit strange in general. Hard to get anything decent.
The terrestrial channels are the Irish Saorview channels which are all less than full HD i believe, even the HD ones.
When i select auto/1080p in the AV settings, the menus output fine, just no sat tv signal. I would've thought even if the resolution was wrong, I'd see no menus. I don't see why it affects sat signal reading of the sat box.
If the above doesn't work, I'm going to try and switch it with my zgemma h7s
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
I get no signal on tv when i forget to select my HDMI 1 , 2 or 3 and a blank screen when i am looking at a tv channel from tv.
Can i assume with new tvs you might have to activate the ports before use?
I get no signal on tv when i forget to select my HDMI 1 , 2 or 3 and a blank screen when i am looking at a tv channel from tv.
Can i assume with new tvs you might have to activate the ports before use?It definitely has the right HDMI selected. I even tried all three in case one of the ports was damaged.
I literally change nothing apart from the end of the HDMI cable from the old to new tv and the sat signal goes to zero.
The sat feed is very old so i suspect it is something to do with the signal being marginal.
I'll try the zgemma tomorrow to see what it produces
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
Ok - the Saorview signal is 1440x1080 on the HD channels. 1440 is the same as 1920 but the pixel size is 1.33, so the actual resolution is 1920x1080. I'm in the Wicklow area, so can help with your issue if you are reasonably local.
You can always go into webif to see whats happening with no tv on and no signal would suggest cable, lnb , dish allignment?
Thanks for the offer Joe. I am in Dublin but am fairly familiar with these boxes and think it is not related to the setup.
Cactikid, good idea on the OpenWebIf. I'm guessing I will see no signal until the HDMI is connected to the old TV.
The update is I switched out the Gigablue Trio with a ZGemma H7S.
=> Same result, no sat signal on the new TV.
My parents have a working Gigablue Quad HD Plus in the other room so I moved the new TV and connected it to the Gigablue
=> Sat channels all fine
Conclusion
1) TV is working fine
2) Gigablue Trio is working fine
3) ZGemma H7S is working fine
By elimination, it must be the SAT feed. I am guessing it is marginal and somehow connecting HDMI to the old TV is boosting the signal.
I think you need to turn on the debug log and download it attached to a post. You could try it with the Hanspree TV first, then the Sony.
Just to be clear - when you tune to a satellite channel, you can see the screen (Vix) user interface displayed on the new Sony TV, but the box is reporting "tune failed" or similar? If you go into the setup menu on Vix and use the Signal Finder it will tell you if it can obtain a lock on any of the transponders.
If it's the case that the video to the TV drops out entirely when you select a satellite channel, then it's a resolution issue between the GB Trio (which is 4k capable) and the Sony. There may be an odd setting in the AV menu. Can you post a screenshot of the AV setup menu?
I re-read the thread and something is confusing me. You said you connected the sat cable directly to the TV and got no signal. The Sony W800 does not have a satellite tuner, only terrestrial DVB-T/T2.
I dont think you need a HDMI for Webif as your viewing it on pc but you need a live sat feed to give you a signal , like when other box was connected it did not work either.
Do you have a second feed to try with box powered off connect up cables and then on.
I had lost a connection just by moving box slightly as why i mentioned recheck F connector
This thread is not clear. It says no satellite signal. Please pick from the following two options:
1) The infobar or other output is displayed but no picture from any channels.
2) Nothing at all is displayed from the STB on the TV screen.
This thread is not clear. It says no satellite signal. Please pick from the following two options:
1) The infobar or other output is displayed but no picture from any channels.
2) Nothing at all is displayed from the STB on the TV screen.
It's Option 1,.On the new TV, all Vix menus are displayed and terrestrial channels play fine but when I select a satellite channel, it shows tune failed.
When I go "Signal Finder" in the OpenVix menu, all the numbers are zero.
On the old TV, SAT channels play fine
I dont think you need a HDMI for Webif as your viewing it on pc but you need a live sat feed to give you a signal , like when other box was connected it did not work either.
Do you have a second feed to try with box powered off connect up cables and then on.
I had lost a connection just by moving box slightly as why i mentioned recheck F connector
It could be the connection as the F connector has fallen off leaving the bare central wire exposed. On the old Tv this works fine putting it into the SAT slot on the Gigablue.
I still have the F connector but it won't stay on with a shove as the cable is too fat. It doesn't give a signal on the new TV when held in anyway.
I think you need to turn on the debug log and download it attached to a post. You could try it with the Hanspree TV first, then the Sony.
Just to be clear - when you tune to a satellite channel, you can see the screen (Vix) user interface displayed on the new Sony TV, but the box is reporting "tune failed" or similar? If you go into the setup menu on Vix and use the Signal Finder it will tell you if it can obtain a lock on any of the transponders.
If it's the case that the video to the TV drops out entirely when you select a satellite channel, then it's a resolution issue between the GB Trio (which is 4k capable) and the Sony. There may be an odd setting in the AV menu. Can you post a screenshot of the AV setup menu?
I re-read the thread and something is confusing me. You said you connected the sat cable directly to the TV and got no signal. The Sony W800 does not have a satellite tuner, only terrestrial DVB-T/T2.
I had thought the W800 didn't have a SAT tuner as well based on the specs but there is a SAT connection at the back and the menus allow SAT tuning.
No signal though when connected to the single SAT cable in the room
It could be the connection as the F connector has fallen off leaving the bare central wire exposed. On the old Tv this works fine putting it into the SAT slot on the Gigablue.
I still have the F connector but it won't stay on with a shove as the cable is too fat. It doesn't give a signal on the new TV when held in anyway.
You didn't mention before now that the F connector had fallen off! In order for the LNB to work the sat box (or TV) has to provide 13v-18V up the cable and also pass a 22kHz tone to switch the LNB between high band / low band and between H and V polarisations. You won't get this reliably unless you have the centre core and shield connected via the plug and ensure there is no short. If the cable is too "fat", then you either have the wrong cable type or the wrong F-plug. Photos please!
It could be the connection as the F connector has fallen off leaving the bare central wire exposed. On the old Tv this works fine putting it into the SAT slot on the Gigablue.
I still have the F connector but it won't stay on with a shove as the cable is too fat. It doesn't give a signal on the new TV when held in anyway.
If you have no F plug on the satellite down lead I'm not surprised that satellite doesn't work. On a universal LNB the cable supplies power from your box or TV to the LNB. The box/TV also sends control signal up the cable. For this to work both the central core of the coax cable must connect to the centre of the box/TV F connector and the screen(braid) must be connected to the outer screw of the box/TV f connector. A properly installed F plug makes these two connections reliably.
Just poking the wires into the f connector can result in three possible failure mechanisms
i) you are not matching the characteristic impedance of the cable which can result in the loss of some frequencies
ii) you just make one of the two connections - no power is delivered to the LNB.
iii) you short out the output power and control signals from the box or TVs f connector. If you are unlucky you could cause electrical damage to your box or TV by doing this
How to put on a screw F connector to 6/7mm diameter coax cable
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/fplugs.htm#fit
Note: Satcure are no longer trading
Youtube description
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2v7fLHZzzM
Screw on F plugs can be obtained cheaply on Ebay or 100 off from the sponsor
https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/connectors-and-adaptors/100x-screw-twist-on-f-type-connector
Ebay example
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204042399216
Ouch redo connections and follow the video for screwing on the F connector.
Photo be handy unless its a compressed fitting which wont go back on
Unfortunately I won't have any photos until the next time I am up there.
I think it is almost certainly the cabling but probably more than just the connector. I had a spare F connector and followed a guide to fit it. Unfortunately the wire was too thick to simply push it on but I could have used tape to keep it in place. I didn't bother as pushing the cable to keep it in place with my hand still gave no signal.
I gave up in the end and am getting a sat installer out on Monday to fix.
The terrestrial signal is marginal too (can fail based on the weather) so I'll get them to fix that too.
I will report back on the final cause.
You dont push it on as it has threads on the inside which should screw on , yes we will have to wait then.
Unfortunately I won't have any photos until the next time I am up there.
I think it is almost certainly the cabling but probably more than just the connector. I had a spare F connector and followed a guide to fit it. Unfortunately the wire was too thick to simply push it on but I could have used tape to keep it in place. I didn't bother as pushing the cable to keep it in place with my hand still gave no signal.
I gave up in the end and am getting a sat installer out on Monday to fix.
The terrestrial signal is marginal too (can fail based on the weather) so I'll get them to fix that too.
I will report back on the final cause.
I did offer to help...
As @cactikid says, you screw the F-plug onto the cable. The braid is folded back onto the outer cable sheath and the plug screws over this. If the plug won't screw on, then you are using the wrong cable (or possibly a slightly smaller than usual F-plug). Normal satellite cable (RG-6) or better still WF-100 will be just under 7mm in diameter and the F-plug threads will compress the braid onto it.
You dont push it on as it has threads on the inside which should screw on , yes we will have to wait then.
The original may have been a crimped or compression fit F plug, both requiring the correct tool for fitting and both unusable again once removed from the cable. The cable may have been 6/7mm in diameter [CT100, WF100, RG6] but the replacement F plug that dubrov had could have been for the thinner diameter WF65 cable now popular with dish installers.
Spare us all from crap cable! The race to the bottom of the junk pile.
I had a collection of regular screw in F-plugs, accumulated over the years. One was smaller diameter than the rest and would fit RG58 cable, but not regular CT100 or RG6. It may have been left around when Sky installed my first HD box back in 2006 or so. The installer was using shotgun cable at the time. I think that might be like the newer WF65 . I've only ever used CT100 or copper RG6 subsequently.
Have loads around here also and i assume different colours on compression fitting are for different cables.
F connectors look all the same until you try them.
RG58 cable
There must be a ham in the house?
Yes, it probably wasn't the right F plug for the cable. It wasn't big enough to fit over the outer sheath and even attempt to screw on.
The cable is probably about 40 years old so I may see if the SAT installer can replace it and maybe add a second for redundancy to avoid future problems.
Yes, it probably wasn't the right F plug for the cable. It wasn't big enough to fit over the outer sheath and even attempt to screw on.
The cable is probably about 40 years old so I may see if the SAT installer can replace it and maybe add a second for redundancy to avoid future problems.
If its 40 years old it's probably not even a 100% screened cable and it has possibly degraded a lot. It may also explain why the original F plug fell off. Ideally digital from either an aerial or satellite dish requires a better quality cable with 100% screening. A lack of proper screening in a down-lead can result in localised electrical interference getting into the cable and causing picture breakup.
The cable you have is very likely to be the type "D" mentioned in the following article. Note the article is probably 20+ years old and so prices are well out of date.
https://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/articles/coax-cable-quality.shtml
A satellite installer is more likely to install a twin WF65 cable these days
https://www.webro.com/tv-satellite/wf65-twin/
probably the WF65 twin (al screen) rather than the more expensive Cu (copper) screen variant. While this does work for the majority of satellite installations if you have a marginal signal from your aerial it will be unsuitable for the aerial down-lead as it has too much attenuation and much more than the thicker CT100, WF100, RG6 type cable.
40 year old thinking coaxial , always handy having twin sat cables in a roon to allow view and record.
Dare i ask what lnb and dish look like also.
Do you have another tv in the house that you might need sat feeds for then upgrade lnb to maybe a quad?
There must be a ham in the house?
Long time SWL and scanner fan:D Nowadays, feeder of ADSB data to t'internet.
Long time SWL and scanner fan:D Nowadays, feeder of ADSB data to t'internet.
LOL. I've got a G3... not used in nearly 40 years.
Yep, I've got shelves with gear I haven't used in years! It's too easy to occasionally dip into web-based SDR tuners, now that my local listening environment (in the middle of a housing estate) has become an RF noise-fest.
Its all changed since Heuvos was a boy - bloody zello operators wouldn't know how to use a callsign never mind tell a dit from a dah.
Its all changed since Heuvos was a boy - bloody zello operators wouldn't know how to use a callsign never mind tell a dit from a dah.
- .... . ... . / -.. .- -.-- ... / .- .-.. .-.. / -.-- --- ..- / -. . . -.. / .. ... / .- / - . -..- - / -- . ... ... .- --. . / .- -. -.. / .- / - . -..- - / - --- / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - --- .-.
https://morsecode.world/international/translator.html
- .... . ... . / -.. .- -.-- ... / .- .-.. .-.. / -.-- --- ..- / -. . . -.. / .. ... / .- / - . -..- - / -- . ... ... .- --. . / .- -. -.. / .- / - . -..- - / - --- / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - --- .-.
https://morsecode.world/international/translator.html
That's actually cruel trying to read that. Even my kids look at me saying who needs radios, we've got internet now but little do they know
Come the apocalypse, the rest of the world will be glad for hams:smiley_yup:
If its 40 years old it's probably not even a 100% screened cable and it has possibly degraded a lot. It may also explain why the original F plug fell off. Ideally digital from either an aerial or satellite dish requires a better quality cable with 100% screening. A lack of proper screening in a down-lead can result in localised electrical interference getting into the cable and causing picture breakup.
The cable you have is very likely to be the type "D" mentioned in the following article. Note the article is probably 20+ years old and so prices are well out of date.
https://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/articles/coax-cable-quality.shtml
A satellite installer is more likely to install a twin WF65 cable these days
https://www.webro.com/tv-satellite/wf65-twin/
probably the WF65 twin (al screen) rather than the more expensive Cu (copper) screen variant. While this does work for the majority of satellite installations if you have a marginal signal from your aerial it will be unsuitable for the aerial down-lead as it has too much attenuation and much more than the thicker CT100, WF100, RG6 type cable.
Yes I think it's the fourth one. It is definitely a brown cable anyway and probably long past its replacement date.
I'll see if they can replace with better cable.
Unfortunately, my Dad insisted that the dish be installed on the chimney to keep it more out of sight. From the ground I can see the dish but not the LNB.
I'd guess it is already a Quad as there are two feeds to one room and one dubious feed to another room.
Ideally I would have two in each, more for redundancy than recording.
LOL, do people there really install dishes on chimneys?
LOL, do people there really install dishes on chimneys?
I had installer out last year because trees in the next garden was interfering with the signal. He put the dish on my chimney.
No chance of me trying to re align it if I have issues in the future
Wow i had brown cable and was thick with copper braiding around it and was tv coaxial.
How old might be the lnb i wonder if cable is that old it might be seized onto lnb.
I don't think the LNB is that old.
In the 70/s/80s, it was common in Dublin to have massive Aerials on the roof to pick up the UK terrestrial channels.
I'd say the cables were installed as part of that aerial installation around 1981.
Cablelink (which became NTL then UPC then Virgin) then took over in the estate with the offering of many more channels.
Most of the aerials were taken down at that stage (mainly as they were a bit ugly).
I'd think they only moved to FTA satellite around 12 years ago at which point the sat/lnb would have been installed.
I am guessing the Cablelink installer did the bare minimum with cabling to the attic and then connected to the existing cabling from there.
The Sat installer did the same.
The life of lnbs is usually 10 years and yes gone through those 3 companies over the decades.
We did have a massive aerial and never thought about the UK channels we received.
I might be inclined to replace all cabling rather than having joins in different types of very different cables.
See what others say as thinking lifetime of cable and how newer cable is.
LOL, do people there really install dishes on chimneys?
Not sure what you mean by that comment @Huevos!
Dishes are quite small - Sky zone 2 and chimneys are fairly substantial. In housing estates, depending on how houses are oriented, it may be the only place to permit signal reception. Some local bye-laws won't permit installation of dishes on front curtilage of premises, so no dishes on poles allowed to permit view over the roof. In more recent times, though, fewer installers will even consider going on the roof due to H&S rules and insurance issues.
I had installer out last year because trees in the next garden was interfering with the signal. He put the dish on my chimney.
No chance of me trying to re align it if I have issues in the future
Depending on the alignment of your house a dish can also be installed on the "wrong" side looking over the roof.
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/reference/dish-screened-by-roof.pdf
With a lot of old properties the only thing keeping the chimneys standing is the aerial wires lashed around them :) :)
So I had the SAT installer out and he measured the satellite signal using his equipment and it registered no signal at all.
I still don't understand how the old TV was able to get a signal.
He installed new terrestrial and satellite cables as well as a new LNB and all working perfectly now.
I was interested to test if the Sony W800 could potentially replace the SAT box altogether and simplify the setup.
I was able to confirm it does indeed have a SAT tuner despite the specs saying otherwise.
The functionality is mostly there but the big downside is that it takes about 6 button presses to switch between SAT and Terrestrial channels. If anyone knows a quick way, please let me know.
In addition to the above, channel changing is much slower and only now/next is available on the TV guide for satellite. I'd say the recording is unreliable as well but didn't try it.
I setup HDMI-CEC so at least only one remote now. All working well except the channel up/down buttons still control the TV and flick back to the TV's own Tuner rather than the sat box's HDMI feed.
Undoing it just requires clicking the input button back to the SAT box.
Maybe wind moved something and it made and broke it again.
Combo box is easier on the brain for me. Always keep the sat box.
You're wasting your time expecting the TV to have a full programme guide (EPG) for the satellite channels unless it is branded with Freesat logo. I have an old (2008) Sony TV with a sat tuner and Freesat branded, so I do get a 7 day EPG, but it's a pain to use the built-in features and it's slow to switch between terrestrial and satellite (as you have found with the newer model).
Keep your combo box as @cactikid suggests and you will be better off for EPG and stable recording. Glad you (and the sat installer) finally resolved the issues!
they only moved to FTA satellite around 12 years agoIn 2003
For context - @dubrov's parents may well have moved to satellite only 12 years ago. Most of Dublin and some suburban areas outside Dublin (including where I live) were cabled by various companies in the '80s and '90s and taken over by NTL eventually. This was an analogue service and re-distributed Irish and the main British channels. With the rise in Sky Digiboxes around 1999/2000, some cable subscribers would have moved, but when Sky+ and HD arrived in 2006, more and more people moved to satellite. My own Sky dish and cabling are in place since May 2006 when HD was launched. I dropped the Sky sub in 2012 or thereabouts when my last child who had interest in Premier League football left the nest. Virgin Media took over most of the cabled network in the 2010's and upgraded the coax and now offer broadband and a full range of digital TV services, so it sits alongside telecom providers VDSL broadband/TV, pure fibre and satellite options in many suburban areas.
2003 was the year that BBC and ITV were no longer encrypted on 28šE. Before that you needed a Sky sub to receive them.
https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/news/bbc-leaves-bskyb-fuming-after-satellite-swap/en-gb/13316
Yes, they first had a huge aerial on roof which brought in free Irish (RTE1 and RTE2) and UK channels (BBC1, BBC3 , UTV and Channel4).
Cablelink with pay TV then moved in offering a better signal and wider range of channels (Sky, MTV etc.). The big aerials were generally taken down at that stage.
After that Sky became popular and I think they eventually moved to it but only kept it for 1/2 years before going FTA.
I think pay TV is far more popular in Ireland than the UK as most people want the free Irish channels (via Aerial) and UK channels (via satellite) on a single list with reliable recording.
Combo boxes seem to be the only way to get it without paying a monthly sub and there is a bit of setup and maintenance required.
2003 was the year that BBC and ITV were no longer encrypted on 28šE. Before that you needed a Sky sub to receive them.
https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/news/bbc-leaves-bskyb-fuming-after-satellite-swap/en-gb/13316
The reference to the move to FTA wasn't when British domestic channels stopped encrypting - @dubrov's folks were on cable TV in 2003. Only later they moved to FTA satellite. My own setup was on a mix of FTA (Freesat receiver) and Sky until about 2014.
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