Unicable Settings and Tuning Issues

[GeoffatMM]

Hi,

I am having problems with tuning the receiver with my Gigablue UHD UE 4K using an Inverto unicable LNB (Details in my signature).

Following forum discussions I moved from a single cable setup to a dual cable setup. Before starting, I checked both cables on my smart TV to check they were working properly and they were. The Inverto only has 4 scr so only 4 tuners could be set up as shown here:

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Each tuner has been set up as follows:

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Once setup and rebooted I checked the signal for each of the four tuners. A and B were fine but nothing shown on C and D, possibly because the tuner was not being called on to show a programme?

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I then did four recordings from the main guide which still showed all the channels previously scanned, most I set as immediate from the guide with one timed. They all worked.

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However I then noticed that the freesat selections I had done through ABM were not working (can't remember exactly what made me realise it and I have no screenshot). So I tried to update the Freesat settings and got this result:

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I noticed it was using tuner B not A (any reason why?). The result was odd because when I checked the signal it was still fine. I have read that the delay on unicable can be an issue and I see that Abu has posted instructions on what to do when the "Tune Failed" messages comes up (and it has on a couple of occasions) but before I mess with that I wanted to get feedback on the results so far.

The results of the scan only gave 260 channels not the 800+ that I had. I then noticed that it was 26 copies of the same ten channels.

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When I then looked at the freesat listings, most channels were not there. I tried to rescan again but it once more would not let me:

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I do not think it is a signal problem (but it might be). I think the settings are as they should be (but could others check please?). So I am unclear why the scanning is not now working in this new 2 cable setup.

Hope someone can help.

[BrokenUnusableAccount]

So you are using a splitter on the single unicable output from the LNB to make two connections to this Gigablue UHD UE 4K box?

[Willo3092]

Take a look at this post from Huevos:

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?58679-Unicable-devices-and-tune-failed-messages&highlight=satelliteequipmentcontrol

[abu baniaz]

Physical setup:
Remove the splitter. Attach/hook up the signal wire to socket/tuner A.

Software:
Change settings for tuners B-D so that they are all "Connected" to tuner A.

I will update the unicable guide soon.

[abu baniaz]

I suggest we have a different thread for your "scanning" issues. There are different types of scanning. They do things differently and results are based on options you select.

[GeoffatMM]

Yes BB , that is right.

[GeoffatMM]

Yes Willo,

This is the post I incorrectly attributed to Abu. It was Huevos. I am not sure that this is the scanning problem. By the time I come to scan the machine should have settled down?

[GeoffatMM]

Thanks Abu,

I have been playing with it unsuccessfully just before reading your post and started by swapping the two cables and that made no difference so went back to the single cable setup and wired direct to the unicable source and it has downloaded a record 870+ programmes. Why? It is a bit frustrating and actually fairly critical at the moment.

I am renovating a house and have gone down the unicable route as I did not want the multiple cables wired all through the house (basically, from the central point to each room requires 5 cables for safety using legacy cables. Unicable seems to overcome this but my confidence is much lower now. I can wire the house so that I can get the main unicable to the receiver whenever necessary but it would be a bit of a pain to do that every time I want to scan.

Is it the quality of the splitter that is the issue or something else (I did ask for guidance on this previously but it was amongst many other issues so got lost in the noise)? Happy to invest im higher quality components if that is what is required.

[GeoffatMM]

I thought the whole of this post was about scanning issues but if you feel something should be split out please tell me what, how and where to put the new thread.

[abu baniaz]

Please confirm you have modified the wiring (removed splitter) and modified your tuner configurations.

Tuner setup and scanning are different topics. Please deal with the more important one first.

[GeoffatMM]

Not sure I understand the difference but happy to follow your lead.

Yes unicable in A. B connected to A. C to H FBC Automatic.


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[abu baniaz]

What about c and D?

Can you draw a quick sketch of how it is now. Let us not confuse with what you want to end up with. We can deal with that later, once you are comfortable with the current setup.

[GeoffatMM]

FBC Automatic. Is that not right?


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[abu baniaz]

Your LNB has 4 SCR. If you do not want to use all 4 SCR on this receiver, setting is correct. If you want to use all 4 SCR on this receiver, setting is wrong.

For info:
FBC automatic = Internal loop through when required and possible
It is not "configure FBC tuners automatically".

[GeoffatMM]

OK Abu,

Do you have details on what the settings should be please? Is there an example I can follow?

I have looked at the forum but the info appears conflicting but that may be because it is not always properly explained.

BTW. If you are doing a guide on this and need it edited/proofed I would be happy to contribute.


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[abu baniaz]

You are missing details that are being given to you. Slow down, one thing at a time. You will get there.

Willow3092 posted screenshots/descriptions for you. You also posted in the thread with instructions which you need to follow with slight adjustments for your make/model.

It is going to be easy if you keep things simple and one at a time. I'd rather you get your tuner config correct first. It is fundamental. Rest of it will fall in place.


https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59959-Unicable-II-Inverto-IDLU-32UL40-UNB00-0PP-FBC-tuners

You already posted in the guide for setting it up. His LNB had 32 SCR, yours has 4. Configure your first 4 tuners as per guide, leave the rest as FBC AUTOMATIC.

A
SCR =1
Connected = no

B
SCR =2
Connected = yes
Connected to A

C
SCR = 3
Connected = Yes
Connected to A

D
SCR = 4
Connected = Yes
Connected to A

E to H
Leave as FBC automatic. This is because all of your SCRs are in use.

Make/model will have to be entered too. Once you have done that we can do next stage.

I think it might be better for you to state what is confusing on the guide so I can make it clearer. I have been editing it as we go along with various people who are confused/annoyed by complexity.

Some of the terms are confusing because they mean different things in different contexts.

[GeoffatMM]

Abu,

That is now set up. B using advanced and C and D using FBC SCR. Each set to individual scr.

Where is a link to the guide as it is?


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[abu baniaz]

Where is a link to the guide as it is?


Guide to configuring lnb is here, Note post 2.
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59959-Unicable-II-Inverto-IDLU-32UL40-UNB00-0PP-FBC-tuners

Hopefully, that is your configuration correct. Correct = match hardware hooked up to tuner/s

My advice has been continuation of theme of other advice given to avoid confusion. Your LNB has a unicable output and two legacy inputs. I am assuming that you are not using the legacy/universal outputs and no other receivers are accessing the LNB. I had asked for a sketch so I do not assume.

Please start your scanning thread for scanning issues if there is a problem. I would suggest you stick with manual scan and not use plugins like ABM while you are in trialling mode. All 4 "tuners" should yield same results.

Manual scan, single satellite, 28.2, choose tuner, no to network.

[GeoffatMM]

OK Abu, many thanks.

I will review the guide in the context of my recent experience.

I will carry out the manual scans and report back.

So, selected tuner one at a time.
Predefined transponder.
Sat 28.2.
Transponder leave as is.
Network No.
Clear No
Only Free. No(?). Is this to limit it to FTA channels or something else?

As clear is set to No these scans will not affect existing listings, is that right? Will it create duplicates or is Vix intelligent enough to sort that out?

I will wait for your response before starting.

If this yields any problems I will start a new thread as suggested.


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[ronand]

Change "predefined transponder" to "single satellite" otherwise you will just scan a single transponder. Dont worry about duplicates.

[Huevos]

No it should not create duplicates. Use "Predefined transponder" and network "yes".

[abu baniaz]

Once you confirm all 4 tuners receive the same number of services, you can forget manual scan and just use ABM (which you are already using). ABM scans/reads the data table, adds services to your receiver and also creates bouquets.

The purpose of scanning on all 4 tuners is to prove everything is working fine. Under normal usage, there isn't a need to scan on all tuners. Please refer to screenshot for my advice which I have given to help you. You don't have to follow it. Using the attached options you should get 850+ services. If you use different options, you may get something else.

[GeoffatMM]

Thanks Abu. I will use your settings.


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[GeoffatMM]

All done. 866 channels on each tuner. I had a stream going to my phone C and D both initially came back with errors but when I closed the stream down they both tuned OK.

ABM has refreshed and appear to be working OK.

What is the next step?


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[abu baniaz]

Hopefully that is your tuner configuration done. When you get your LNB with more SCR, you will have to hook it up exactly as you have done with this one, set all the tuners so they have an SCR associated to them. Hopefully you should be comfortable with unicable now. Wiring as well as tuner configuration. You should be able to plan your house modernisation based on that understanding.

That should be your tuner configuration completed.

With regards to scanning:
As you are using ABM, just use that. You do not need to perform a manual scan or automatic scan. Hopefully you have scheduled it to run regaulalry. Once a week should be fine. If you hit an issue, you can manually run ABM.
Video guide to ABM is here
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?48368-How-to-setup-AutobouquetsMaker-for-FreeSat-UK-using-OpenViX

Optional temporary changes for you to consider.

As you have universal ports unused, you could hook up one of them and use it. That will obviously involve a wire from dish to receiver. (You won't need it in the future when you get your new LNB).

Hook up universal LNB to tuner/socket B. No splitters, must be direct from LNB to Receiver
In tuner configuration, set B as: Simple, single , 28.2

As you have now freed an SCR on the LNB.
Set tuner E as unicable. SCR will be 2 (the one freed up from B). Connected = yes, E will be connected to A (the one with unicable wire)


Next Step:
EPG is separate to bouquets. Have you sorted the acquisition of EPG? There are several ways. One is as per this thread.
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?63896-Setting-up-Sky-UK-epg-download

Please do not post non-tuner related questions in this thread. It will help others looking for solutions if threads are specific to titles.


Next Step 2
Add picons. See here: https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?53119-Picons-How-to-add-picons-to-your-receiver

[GeoffatMM]

Thanks again Abu.

I appreciate your support and patience. I will work through these next steps and start a separate thread if I encounter difficulties.


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[GeoffatMM]

Hi Abu,

Thanks for the guide link. I had started from that thread when I posted this issue and see that more of a forum thread than a guide. I thought you would be developing a guide along the lines of (e.g.) an annex to the manual version 1.1 (which also probably could do with refreshing [and expanding]).

The forum threads are helpful for the examples and explanations they give but they do not always fully explain why things are done and a guide would do that. Is there a mechanism to draft a guide for peer review that is outside the public scrutiny of the forum? A wiki for example? If there is, I would like to try to generate something that would help others like me that are new to this technology and need a fuller understanding. Doing it publicly on the forum would possibly lead to confusion for new users as it is developed. I now understand your distinction between tuning and scanning and would limit my attempt to tuning only.

I can't promise anything fast (building takes priority!) but I would be prepared to devote some of my free time to doing it.

If you think the community would find this helpful, please let me know.

[GeoffatMM]

Hi Abu,

I would like to return to this issue wrt the development of my new home wiring. I thought unicable was meant to deliver the full band of signal to each output by simply splitting it at the splitter or switch. If this is the case, why was it necessary to link the unicable direct to the tuner?

It is important as I had planned to go from the LNB to all rooms on a single cable splitting off at each one as I reach them. For minimum cabling I planned my cabling path as:

:LNB to GTL/ETEL (Obligatory dedicated electrical cupboard for incoming electrical and communication connections for all new homes in France) split to device 1 (VBox):
:GTL/ETEL to kitchen split to device 2 (TV outlet with accompanying RJ45 connection, also obligatory in each room under French regulations):
: Kitchen to Master bedroom split to device 3 (Outlet):
:Master Bedroom to Study split to device 4 (Outlet):
:Study to Bedroom 2 split to device 5 (Outlet):
:Bedroom 2 to Lounge split to devices 6, 7 and 8 (Outlets for smart TV, satellite tuner [2]):
:Lounge to Courtyard split to device 9 (external smart TV for summer):
:Courtyard to Garage/Man-Cave terminating with device 10: (Outlet for ejected husband/testing purposes)

Are you saying that the tuner really needs a direct unicable feed prior to splitting? If so it sort of destroys the concept of unicable doesn't it?

What I do not understand is why the tuner would not work after the splitter (well it worked but only gave 10 channels) but the smart TV worked on the same split cable and brought down all the programmes.

As I asked earlier, is it the quality of the splitter that needs upgrading to enable this daisy chain or series connection layout to work or something else? Or should I be using a centralised, powered multi-switch with a star configuration (i.e., from the central GTL/ETEL to each device with a separate cable?

I appreciate you may not know the answer to all this but perhaps you can point me to someone that does?

[Willo3092]

My unicable goes directly into the loft and into an 8-way splitter.
It is then distributed on a single cable to each room.
If you need 2 feeds at the receiver end then you can put a 2-way splitter on the end of the feed. (for standard tuners).

I linked to the WoS unicable LNB/Splitter page in an earlier post.
I think Abu suggested running the cable direct to your receiver without a splitter to prove that the splitter wasn't faulty.

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[abu baniaz]

Your plan should work. You can split as you go along. You only need one wire to a socket on an FBC matrix.

With regards to your original setup. Draw a diagram. There may be confusion as to where each cable was going. Remember, you only have 4 SCR on your LNB. Decide how many you want to assign to the vbox and how many to the Gigablue.

[abu baniaz]

You do not need two signal wires to an FBC matrix. Use one wire to the matrix and use the "connected" option.

[twol]

„ Are you saying that the tuner really needs a direct unicable feed prior to splitting? If so it sort of destroys the concept of unicable doesn't it?“
No - it doesn,t, but the splitters and their impedance does matter.
My 27.5W LNB runs to a 2 way splitter - 1 path is to my lounge receiver (about 20 metres away), the other path goes to a 4 way splitter(about 12 metres away) - the output from the 4 way is significantly down (relative to the lounge receiver) and causes occasional loss of signal ( this is a new setup so I need to look at this setup and see if I can improve it!).

[GeoffatMM]

Abu et al,

Have done as suggested but as soon as I put the split line back onto the UHD UE 4K it fails.

Then I noticed that although tuner A and B had no signal, C and D did! Still would not tune properly. So the new splitter arrived this afternoon and I changed them over. SCR 1 came back but kept dropping off then coning back. So I removed tuner D and gave scr 4 from tuner D to tuner A and the three remaining scr are working fine.

I now suspect the splitter is fine but the LNB is the problem. The 24 way s due to arrive tonight so will try to fit it tiomorrow and see if that cures the problem. Seem to remember I bought a tuner tester in the dim past so will rifle through my stores to see if I can find it.

[Huevos]

If you are connecting to one LNB why do you need a splitter?

[GeoffatMM]

Not sure that conclusion is right either as the cable when connected direct to the receiver worked properly so perhaps even these new splitters are not good enough quality? How can I tell?
Are there any tests I can run on them to check them out?

[GeoffatMM]

Huevos, in earlier posts I explained that I am wiring a new house using unicable. Plus I have several items that need attaching to the unicable circuit.

[Huevos]

How many cables have you got connected to this receiver?

[GeoffatMM]

Just the one cable as suggested.


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[GeoffatMM]

Hi all,

It seems it was the splitter causing the problems. It is an intermittent fault but I have watched it (using the signal monitor) runing at 12 dB happily then suddenly dropping to zero for anything from 1 to 30 seconds.

Have changed the splitter and retuned the Receiver and (uising one of the bands) the separate smart TV. The new LNB has been delayed but hopefully I will have eight bands on the Gigablue, four on the VBox and one on the smart TV before the end of the weekend.