View Full Version : Looking for Unicable Receivers
Hi
I am a complete beginner in this area so please bear that in mind when reviewing my questions!
I am trying to cable a renovated property and want to keep cabling (through 600mm walls!) to a minimum. I am an ex Sky and now Freesat user. I currently have an Inverto unicable LNB with two legacy outputs and 4 unicable channels. The unicable supplies my VBox Communications TV distribution unit and the two legacy outputs currently go to my Humax 1100S.
Recently bought a Hisense TV and noticed it was unicable compatible so dropped one of the channels off the VBox and applied it to the TV. It works fine.
So for the new house I thought I would upgrade to a (let's say) 16 channel unicable LNB and wire a single cable to all rooms splitting off where needed. The problems started when I tried to connect the Humax over unicable. It does not work (or is there a way to get it to work?). Humax were not interested in helping as they no longer supply to Freesat but they did say to talk to them. Freesat tried to tell me that their latest 4K receiver would work but when I asked how I allocated the channels they looked deeper and came back to say that it only works with Wideband LNB (their focus is to get Sky users to switch over). So consequently they could not help either.
So I talked to some engineers most of whom told me I had to install co-ax in vast quantities to every room that I wanted TV in. 4 cables from the dish to the distributing multi switch (5 if I wanted and aerial as well) and 3 cables to each room to allow for two inputs and one output. And I thought unicable was developed to overcome all of this. They also laughed when I asked what receiver I should buy to work with my unable.
So, my questions:
1. Can I get unicable to work with and record from the Humax 1100S or the new Freesat 4K receiver and if so how?
2. Are there unicable compatible receivers available on the market that I can use?
3. If answer 2 is yes, how complex is it to limit it to the one satellite and the UK listing of freest channels?
4. What does all this mean to the EPG and recording abilities? Can I get a 7 day EPG built in and multiple concurrent recording or did I just dream it?
5. Are there other solutions I should be looking at that give a relatively easy to use system (thinking here of others that will use it)?
I am not afraid of a bit of technology. I have set up my VBox that works well for distributing TV throughout the house on the IOS app or Kodi and even have a Raspberry Pi dedicated to one of the TVs. I have tried to read up and understand OpenVix to see if that helps but confess, it was like running through a wet and muddy field with full battle kit on.
Can someone help me? Happy to read up anything that explains what to do but I would prefer a quick, cheap and easy solution if there is one.
Thanks in advance,
Geoff
OK the easiest way would be a Enigma2 receiver with FBC tuners and a Unicable II LNB this will give you 8 tuners though 1 coax, you can the distribute this via Kodi, like you do with your VBox just depends if you need the VBox too?
If you need to use the VBox too then you can run a cable to each room splitting where its easiest and have an enigma2 receiver in each room. I think all support Unicable II, but check before you buy
600mm? Welcome to my world (Bavaria) - its called a good German power drill and long drill bit!
As per JonMM, the question is whether you need the VBox and how technical you want to get.
So answers 2-> 5 Yes for E2 boxes
Q2, There are FBC tuner boxes available (Vu+, GigaBlue) but you can set up a normal receiver with a Unicable connection using one of the frequencies used by the LNB.
Q.3 Easy
Q.4 As said. Yes
Q5, you could replace the VBox with a FBC tuner receiver and then use client/server setup by LAN or WiFi with cheap E2 receivers in other rooms(they will run like a dedicated setup with their own access via the server box)
Most of the newer E2 receivers also now support Kodi, have access to plugins like Plex amongst others.
……But it depends if you are willing to spend some time getting into this world. Its not something you just power on(like the VBox?) but gives you real control over what you do
Thank you both for a quick response.
The problem I have been facing is determining if the machine is unicable II compatible. It does not appear to be in the specification listings (unless it is listed as something else or inferred by a certain type of tuner, like FBC?).
I have looked at Enigma 2 units but was not sure if they would be suitable. Are you saying that all Enigma 2 with FBC tuners will be compatible?
Are there any particular units you would recomend?
Geoff
OK on Kodi, where you set up to watch TV through VBox instead of selecting VBox you can select Enigma2 Client. The main receiver can have 8-10 tuners, then you can share those to your kodi boxes, the issue is that Kodi can only have 1 PVR client so if you need the VBox too (is it pointing at a different satellite?). You will also be able to setup and watch recordings.
Thank you both for a quick response.
The problem I have been facing is determining if the machine is unicable II compatible. It does not appear to be in the specification listings (unless it is listed as something else or inferred by a certain type of tuner, like FBC?).
I have looked at Enigma 2 units but was not sure if they would be suitable. Are you saying that all Enigma 2 with FBC tuners will be compatible?
Are there any particular units you would recomend?
Geoff
Perhaps see....
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59981-Guide-to-using-Unicable
You may be confusing the use of unicable LNBs and the need for FBC tuner capability.
Thank you both for a quick response.
The problem I have been facing is determining if the machine is unicable II compatible. It does not appear to be in the specification listings (unless it is listed as something else or inferred by a certain type of tuner, like FBC?).
I have looked at Enigma 2 units but was not sure if they would be suitable. Are you saying that all Enigma 2 with FBC tuners will be compatible?
Are there any particular units you would recomend?
Geoff
As per Adm, you do not need a FBC tuner receiver to use a Unicable LNB, you just use one of the assigned frequencies.
e.g.
<manufacturer name="Opticum">
<product name="Unicable LNB" scrs="1210,1420,1680,2040,970,1030,1090,1150"/>
<product name="SCR 16UB Pro" scrs="1210,1420,1680,2040,985,1050,1115,1275,1340,1485,1 550,1615,1745,1810,1875,1940"/>
Above are 2 different LNB's from Opticum and the scrs are the frequencies you access the LNB to pick up a satellite channel
On a non FBC box the sat inputs are uniquely assigned to one of these frequencies, on a FBC tuner you can assign upto 8 of these frequencies(scrs) giving you greater ability to watch and record at the same time
abu baniaz
03-11-21, 19:11
All Enigma2 receivers will work with Unicable devices. The terminology may be called different things as most producers will refer to the standards instead of names.
EN50494 = Unicable 1
EN50607 = Unicable 2/Jess.
On most Unicable 2 LNB/switches, the first 4 SCRs are usually Unicable 1 compliant. This is so that you can use them with reception devices that only support Unicable 1 but not Unicable 2. I.e they only can communicate on a narrow set of frequencies. Perhaps try changing the SCRs you are using on the Humax? ( you must ensure that no other devices are using those SCRs.
3. On an Enigma2 receiver, create your bouquets using AutoBouquetsMaker plugin. Use the Freesat provider and the bouquets/categories/groups of channels will be like Freesat.
Just to confuse things more, you may want to use a unicable 2 switch with quattro LNB instead of a unicable LNB. Most switches will allow you to use more legacy outputs if you need them.
Also,
I am not tied to VBox but it does work. If I can get the Receiver (Enigma 2) to work with unicable then the VBox will also work and continue to distribute the signal (4 channels) over the network. Their failing is in providing good customer service and not having a real recording and 7 day EPG solution. Does Enigma 2? Does it interact with the schedule so if there are delays or moves to another channel the recording system follows? Is there a series recording system that also works out schedule changes to make sure the programme is properly recorded?
If I understand you correctly, Enigma 2 can distribute TV signal over the internal network to Kodi supported appliances. Is there also an app for IOS that would enable viewing?
Geoff
OK on Kodi, where you set up to watch TV through VBox instead of selecting VBox you can select Enigma2 Client. The main receiver can have 8-10 tuners, then you can share those to your kodi boxes, the issue is that Kodi can only have 1 PVR client so if you need the VBox too (is it pointing at a different satellite?). You will also be able to setup and watch recordings.
I only want one PVR client, this is just my home system, nothing too large or fancy. Thanks, I have located the Enigma 2 PVR client.
I have asked about the recording ability in other reply.
Geoff
600mm? Welcome to my world (Bavaria) - its called a good German power drill and long drill bit!
As per JonMM, the question is whether you need the VBox and how technical you want to get.
So answers 2-> 5 Yes for E2 boxes
Q2, There are FBC tuner boxes available (Vu+, GigaBlue) but you can set up a normal receiver with a Unicable connection using one of the frequencies used by the LNB.
Q.3 Easy
Q.4 As said. Yes
Q5, you could replace the VBox with a FBC tuner receiver and then use client/server setup by LAN or WiFi with cheap E2 receivers in other rooms(they will run like a dedicated setup with their own access via the server box)
Most of the newer E2 receivers also now support Kodi, have access to plugins like Plex amongst others.
……But it depends if you are willing to spend some time getting into this world. Its not something you just power on(like the VBox?) but gives you real control over what you do
First, I have a Bosch and several 1m drill bits! It is just that the layout restricts where I can go through and most of that wall has been rebuilt with reinforcing to keep the house up hence my reluctance to drill excessively.
Second, I am happy to spend time to learn and get the system right as it is important.
Geoff
Perhaps see....
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59981-Guide-to-using-Unicable
You may be confusing the use of unicable LNBs and the need for FBC tuner capability.
Thanks for the reply. Just to be clear, I am used to using unicable (have done for last four years) my issue with receivers is that the "Standard" receivers aimed at the public like Humax do not have a channel selector built in so cannot recognise a unicable signal. That is where I came in.
Geoff
As per Adm, you do not need a FBC tuner receiver to use a Unicable LNB, you just use one of the assigned frequencies.
e.g.
<manufacturer name="Opticum">
<product name="Unicable LNB" scrs="1210,1420,1680,2040,970,1030,1090,1150"/>
<product name="SCR 16UB Pro" scrs="1210,1420,1680,2040,985,1050,1115,1275,1340,1485,1 550,1615,1745,1810,1875,1940"/>
Above are 2 different LNB's from Opticum and the scrs are the frequencies you access the LNB to pick up a satellite channel
On a non FBC box the sat inputs are uniquely assigned to one of these frequencies, on a FBC tuner you can assign upto 8 of these frequencies(scrs) giving you greater ability to watch and record at the same time
I assume this is from a config file in linux? Remember I have a bog standard Humax. No frequency control. no access to CLI. (No-one in their CS team even understood my questions!).
Geoff
All Enigma2 receivers will work with Unicable devices. The terminology may be called different things as most producers will refer to the standards instead of names.
EN50494 = Unicable 1
EN50607 = Unicable 2/Jess.
On most Unicable 2 LNB/switches, the first 4 SCRs are usually Unicable 1 compliant. This is so that you can use them with reception devices that only support Unicable 1 but not Unicable 2. I.e they only can communicate on a narrow set of frequencies. Perhaps try changing the SCRs you are using on the Humax? ( you must ensure that no other devices are using those SCRs.
3. On an Enigma2 receiver, create your bouquets using AutoBouquetsMaker plugin. Use the Freesat provider and the bouquets/categories/groups of channels will be like Freesat.
Just to confuse things more, you may want to use a unicable 2 switch with quattro LNB instead of a unicable LNB. Most switches will allow you to use more legacy outputs if you need them.
Thanks Abu,
I cannot find any way to change the screen on a humax box which is why I am asking for support here. I do not think it is possible but if you know a way please tell me.
The rest pf your information is very helpful thank you.
Also,
I am not tied to VBox but it does work. If I can get the Receiver (Enigma 2) to work with unicable then the VBox will also work and continue to distribute the signal (4 channels) over the network. Their failing is in providing good customer service and not having a real recording and 7 day EPG solution. Does Enigma 2? Does it interact with the schedule so if there are delays or moves to another channel the recording system follows? Is there a series recording system that also works out schedule changes to make sure the programme is properly recorded?
If I understand you correctly, Enigma 2 can distribute TV signal over the internal network to Kodi supported appliances. Is there also an app for IOS that would enable viewing?
Geoff
Think this would do most if not all you want
https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/digital-receivers/gigablue/gigablue-uhd-ue-4k
Standardly from your unicable lnb it will give you 8 tuners but this is increased in that if you want to watch / record another channel on the same transponder it does not use another tuner (its pretty difficult to use all 8). & day EPG is not an issue, you also get all the free to air channels from sky so channel 4 HD etc. Depends which EPG system you use but mine just downloads 1 per day so if things change recordings don't season passes / serial links are all there
All current enigma2 receivers sold by the sponsor are Unicable I and II compatible.
Thanks Abu,
I cannot find any way to change the screen on a humax box which is why I am asking for support here. I do not think it is possible but if you know a way please tell me.
The rest pf your information is very helpful thank you.
Sorry. The spellchecker intervened.
I cannot find any way to change the scr on a humax box
Sorry. The spellchecker intervened.
I cannot find any way to change the scr on a humax box
Petty sure Humax is not compatible with unicable
abu baniaz
03-11-21, 21:48
Sorry. The spellchecker intervened.
I cannot find any way to change the scr on a humax box
If the STB does not support Unicable, just use the legacy output from your LNB. A check on the web did not yield any results.
A Unicable switch may be the way to go if you must have the Freesat receiver as you can have a legacy output. Better to get an E2 receiver.
Think this would do most if not all you want
https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/digital-receivers/gigablue/gigablue-uhd-ue-4k
Thanks Jon. Could you explain the difference between a tuner and a demodulator? The unit you linked to is a twin tuner, 8x demodulator. Does that mean I can effectively record 16 channels at the same time? Or is it 8? or is it 2?
The current VBox is an XTi-3332 Unicable 4S supporting 4 Satellite broadcasts and 4 independent users. So I can record 4 programmes at once. Can you give me the equivalent for the unit you suggested?
In total I also have two tuners on the Humax so technically I could record 6 programmes at a time. I think 3 is the maximum I have ever needed. Frankly, most of the time we rely on the Humax as it is simpler than messing with the VBox for the reasons I stated earlier and just get by with two channels for recording at a time. It would be nice to have more but as you say, 8 (if that is the maximum to include the channel we are watching live) would be more than enough. It is the Twin tuners that is confusing me in calculating the maximum.
The unit has no internal hard drive which would lift the price if I included one (the Humax is 2 Tb) but I assume with or without a hard drive I can direct recordings to a network drive or NAS (that could be accessed from any Kodi machine)?
Would it be possible to take the Humax SATA hard drive and install it myself into this unit? Better than trying to sell the Humax I guess. (Assuming the Gigablue can address 2 Tb which as a Linux machine should not be a problem?).
Sorry to keep asking these questions but I want to get it right. I have looked at other models and makes and your recommendation looks best for which I thank you.
Geoff
Thanks Jon. Could you explain the difference between a tuner and a demodulator? The unit you linked to is a twin tuner, 8x demodulator. Does that mean I can effectively record 16 channels at the same time? Or is it 8? or is it 2?It is one FBC matrix. That means 2 sockets and 8 virtual tuners. That means you can record from up to 8 multiplexes at any one time.
abu baniaz
04-11-21, 00:26
It might be an idea to number your questions so that responses can be made without having to quote you.
If all 8 demodulators/tuners were configured to use unique SCR with a unicable device, you will be able to view/stream/record from 8 transponders. It depends how many services are on the transponder as to the total number of services you can view/stream/record. I comfortably recorded 12 services on a TM Twin, which is about 10 years old. I got to about 30 services on the GB UE 4K using a universal LNB (better to use unicable) before it started throwing up issues.
All Enigma2 receivers will allow you to record to a network device.
The form factor of the HDD is important. Most new receivers only accept a 2.5" drive. The GB UE 4K takes a 2.5" drive too So check physical size of HDD you want to install. Some people are using 4 TB drives, but that is on machines that take 3.5" drives.
If the STB does not support Unicable, just use the legacy output from your LNB. A check on the web did not yield any results.
A Unicable switch may be the way to go if you must have the Freesat receiver as you can have a legacy output. Better to get an E2 receiver.
Thanks Abu.
I am trying to avoid the legacy lines to reduce cabling in the house and the multi switch (being centralised) does not help that objective. Also, the switch appears to require the installation of a quad unit which also ups the wiring. I am not tied to a Freesat if the E2 solution delivers the same service (which I understand now it does) so I will be following the recommendation of JonMMM.
I really appreciate all the responses I have received and am confident that if I encounter any problems, the forum will be able to support me.
Geoff
It might be an idea to number your questions so that responses can be made without having to quote you.
Thanks again Abu.
This is the first time I have used this forum and they are all structured differently (as an ex BSI person I despair that there are no standards!). Now I have used it I will try to number or notate my questions for future issues. I have however also discovered that I can edit the quote to reduce it to a minimum which I have done in this instance. I do not want to get deeply into the technology and from your answer and a couple of items I have read, a single transponder can give more than one service so technically the unit could record more than the apparent maximum of 16. I am not sure technically how it does that and do not think it matters. The number are so far beyond my requirements it is not really important but I will continue to research on the web for my own interest. I do not want to waste the forum time on education. Having said that, if you have some links to good material it would help me.
HDD advice noted. I have a 2.5 available if the Humax drive is 3.5 but if I can set up a solid network drive for recording, I may not even bother and just stick the Humax drive in a SATA reader to network it (I have one of these already that has a spare bay).
I am ordering the machine recommended by JonMMM and will experiment with it over the next few months as the final cord will not be cut until the new house (that I am building from an old barn) is ready and that is not likely to be before March 2022.
Geoff
Some practical quesitons now please.
1. Enigma 2 Image
None of the sales literature states if the device is supplied preloaded with E2 and if it is, does not say which image is used. Do they come preloaded or is this something I have to do myself? If I have to do it, is there an image that members would recommend for this machine? (I have seen there is a list of alternative images on the E2 site).
2. Best Satellite
I am currently pointed at Astra2 28.2 to capture Freesat. Is this still the best satellite to use for UK based TV or is there another that I should point to?
3. Bouquets
Where do I get access to the bouquets for collections of programmes and is there a guide on how to install/use them?
4. On Demand
Does the image come with built in apps for on demand services or are these plugins I have to add? I am thinking of iPlayer, My5, ITV hub etc. as well as Molotov, Netflix, Apple TV, Amazon Prime, etc. I have both a smart TV (which has some of these services built in) and an old but excellent Sony that is dumb. If I use the Sony the availability of these services (currently available through the Humax box) will be via the E2 receiver so how possible/easy/difficult is it to obtain these services.
Geoff
1) Think the sponsor charges £1 to flash, you can do it yourself but for £1...... I use OpenVix, I like it as it has everything you need to get going built in, so nothing else needs to be installed.
2) If you are after British channels and english audio, 28.2 will be the best. As well as FreeSat channels you will also get Sky Free to Air
3) Use AutoBouqeutMaker, once you put in your area etc. it will set up all your channels and place them in Bouquets
4) no official on demand, you can put Kodi on it and get some on demand that way, but to be honest I just use a fire stick
Thanks again Jon.
Now ordered and hopefully here next week. Will come back here if I get stuck.
Geoff
Its a helpful community, with some people that really know their stuff
1. Enigma 2 Image
None of the sales literature states if the device is supplied preloaded with E2 and if it is, does not say which image is used.
Buy from the sponsor (World of Satellite) and e2 and an image of you choice will be pre-loaded.
Updating an image such as OpenVix can be achieved in 3 different ways including a couple that only require a couple of clicks from a Openvix menu option.
2. Best Satellite
I am currently pointed at Astra2 28.2 to capture Freesat. Is this still the best satellite to use for UK based TV or is there another that I should point to?
28.2E for Freesat or Sky Free to air.
3. Bouquets
Where do I get access to the bouquets for collections of programmes and is there a guide on how to install/use them?
See the video guide for AutoBouquetMaker at
https://www.openvix.co.uk/index.php/guides-and-tutorials/
Basically it's preloaded into the image for UK users of Freesat/Sky Free to Air and user selected by an openvix menu page.
Hi again,
First can you guide me on protocol. Do I continue this thread or start new one now that the machine has arrived and I have some questions on it?
I am trying to set up the tuners without a great deal of success so far. I just want to make sure it is in the right part of the forum.
Thanks,
Geoff
Hi again,
First can you guide me on protocol. Do I continue this thread or start new one now that the machine has arrived and I have some questions on it?
I am trying to set up the tuners without a great deal of success so far. I just want to make sure it is in the right part of the forum.
Thanks,
Geoff
post new thread quoting box and image version/release etc
New thread posted here:
Forum/GiGaBlue Support/GiGaBlue Discussion/GiGaBlue UHD UE 4K Discussion/ New User Issues with Unicable and scanning (https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?64730-New-User-Issues-with-Unicable-and-scanning&p=518444#post518444)
Geoff
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