Some recordings fail to record once a month

[SkyFan]

Hi, I desperately need help please. About once a month or so I'll get some radio recordings which have a zero filesize and I don't know the reason why. Debug log doesn't help and the Timer log doesn't say anything other than the time when a recording started and ended and it reports the correct start and end recording time but the filesize is zero so nothing was actually recorded.

I have 2 physical twin tuner FBC cards connected to an LNB. I'm NOT using diseqc switches and here's my tuner setup:

A= Simple, single, 28.2
B = Simple, single, 28.2
I = Simple, single, 28.2
J = Simple, single, 28.2

All the other 12 are FBC Automatic.

I'm recording these 5 radio stations at 12am-12pm every day with a repeated timer. Once a month or so I'll get some files with a zero filesize which are underlined:

BBC R1
BBC R1X
BBC R2
BBC WS (World Service)
LBC

There’s nothing else recording at 12am apart from those 5 radio stations. My box can usually record those 5 radio stations plus several TV channels at once so there shouldn't be a reason why when only recording 5 radio stations that 3 of the stations fail to record.

Once the underlined channels fail to record I stop all currently running timers. Then I record the same 5 channels at the current time and they all record fine so why would my repeated timers fail but normal timers don't fail?

Is there anything I can do to solve this issue?

[alexwilmac]

What kind of LNB do you have, Universal or Unicable? Because if it's a Unicable/SCR, your tuner setup is not appropriate.
Without knowing that, knowing just and only your tuner setup does not help us.
Even because, if you have a Universal LNB, you must tell us how many outputs it has got: if it has only one output and you split its single signal into 4, it's a problem. One output, one cable, one tuner, with Universal LNBs.

Instead, if you've got a Unicable LNB, you don't need to connect 4 tuners but to set them up correctly: a FBC tuner is phisically one, but virtually many. Tell us your system and we can go on helping you.

[SkyFan]

It's a Universal LNB that came with Sky+ HD. It's got 4 outputs and none of them are splitted.

[adm]

It's a Universal LNB that came with Sky+ HD. It's got 4 outputs and none of them are splitted.

Possibly its the same thing I see very occasionally. When I change channel I sometimes get a blank screen with no audio and a message window saying “no PAT etc.” Changing channels again and then immediately back to the channel that just gave the problem and it works without problems. It this is happening with you then the blank video, no audio would probably result in a zero size recording. The is with a quad universal LNB.

[ronand]

The sky lnbs are not known for being of high quality. I have seen plenty of failures.

[SkyFan]

There's actually a bug in Vix but I don't know if it's related to my problem or not.

If you're using a universal LNB and are recording the maximum amount of TV or radio channels that the box allows you to then if the box crashes or restarts while things are recording then when the box restarts you won't be able to record as many channels at once as before. Only way to fix it is to stop everything currently being recorded then restart the box, check the tuner settings are all still correct then you can record the max amount of channels as you could before.

I remember several days ago that I pressed the power button on my remote to put the box in standby but I noticed the display went off as well for some reason. I pressed the power button on the remote again and it turned the box back on but instead of resuming from standby it did a restart like I had turned off the power to the box but I hadn't! I guess because a restart was done while recording stuff that I got the failed recordings bug mentioned in the paragraph above. Any idea why the box went into a deep standby if that's what it's called just by me pressing the power button on the remote?

[ccs]

You can't go to deep standby while recordings are in progress without first being prompted to confirm that's what you want to do.

[abu baniaz]

There is lack of definitiveness in my mind about your setup. When I queried this in your previous threads, I sensed annoyance and reluctance to answer. I know how many tuner cards you have on this receiver. I know what you have configured them as. I know what LNB and how many outputs it has. I also know that you had your Duo2 connected for your constant news archiving. What I don't know is if all 4 connections on your tuner cards on the Ultimo 4K have signal wire from the LNB. Please confirm this.

To note:
1. Some Sky LNBs have a fault that only shows when some outputs are in use. So that could be an issue too. manually starting them would mean the tuner order and polarisation used on LNB changes.
2. Someone else has stated on PLI that there is an issue with universal LNBs and tuner config, so there might be an issue there. I don't think that would cause your missed recordings though. If that was the case, you would get a tuner not available instead of a recording that did not work.

As mentioned in the other thread of yours, saying the name of services is not really helpful. You should say the frequency and polarization.

[SkyFan]

All 4 connections on the tuner cards on the Ultimo 4K have signal wire from the LNB.

Where would I find the frequency and polorization of the radio channels? I can press OK when watching those channels to view various numbers but I don't know which ones are the frequency and polorization.

[abu baniaz]

You should be able to see the details in the service/channel list. Location will depend on skin. On Simple 1080, it is just under the small window

[BrokenUnusableAccount]

All 4 connections on the tuner cards on the Ultimo 4K have signal wire from the LNB.

Where would I find the frequency and polorization of the radio channels? I can press OK when watching those channels to view various numbers but I don't know which ones are the frequency and polorization.
Frequency is between 10700 and 12750 (in MHz),and polarization is either H or V.

[SkyFan]

Sorry for the wait, I had to wait until the problem happened again. Didn't have the filesize zero problem for a few days but got it again today. Is this the correct way to get the info you asked for?:
When watching a channel I just pressed the Down arrow then I moved the cursor over a channel then I pressed Menu > Show Transponder Info > Tuner Settings Values

It showed “Frequency: 10802 Mhz Horizontal” for all the radio stations below which were all the channels being recorded at the same time.

BBC R1
BBC R2
BBC R1X
BBC WS
LBC

When my box is on standby the LCD display says that 3 tuners are being used: A B C

This time all channels recorded properly apart from BBC WS which had a zero filesize. There were no crashes on my box this time that could have caused this issue as I mentioned in earlier posts. This time when I got the zero filesize BBC WS recording I deleted all timers, restarted my box and checked that tuners A-P were all setup correctly and they still were. I then added timers to record the same 5 live radio channels again and they all recorded properly without the zero filesize bug. I checked the frequency for all the channels again and they were the same as before: Frequency: 10802 Mhz Horizontal”.

I don’t understand why the channels being manually recorded all recorded properly despite being the same frequency & polarization as the same channels being recorded via repeat timers yet the repeat timers get the zero filesize bug?

Also why isn’t physical tuner I and J being used if the box is unable to record that radio station on physical tuners A and B?

[abu baniaz]

Very few people are going to have a high end receiver like yours and use four wires from a Universal LNB. Most people would use a unicable device ( LNB/Switch). I can't comment whether there is a bug or not. Or more likely there is an issue with your LNB. Some LNBs have a funny error when more than one input is used. I have aa duo 4k with two sat tuner carsd so that could be comaprable to your setup if I add a Sky LNB to my dish. But I am not going to bother if I have to guess what to test. Nor do I have a desire to record news for the whole day.

Your changing variables in use just confuses things. When you restart, the tuner being used first and what it requests from LNB most likely changes. Why delete timers? Starting afresh means whatever the problem was is gone and you can't trace it.

You should really enable debug logs, set them to local time so they are easily read. You can then see what the issue was. Your timers.xml in /etc/enigma2 will also have details.

The easiest way to to see the transponder details is to press up (next to OK), highlight the service and look at the screen. Screenshot attached.

If receiver expects to be able to access the service using the active physical tuners, it won't use another tuner. So if Tuner A is using LNB in Horozontal mode, any services in vertical mode will be in acccesed using Tuner B. You should be bale to get well over 30 services just using the Tuner A and B (both on the same card). It won't need to jump onto the second tuner card (Tuner I onwards)

I went and got the details myself. I shouldn't have to, it's you who has the problem.

BBC R1 (10802 MHz Horizontal)
BBC R2 (10802 MHz Horizontal)
BBC R1X (10802 MHz Horizontal)

LBC (11582 MHz Horizontal)

BBC WS (10788 MHz Vertical)

It only needs two physical tuners for those services.

Your recording on the Vertical plane failed. I don't know whether that was Tuner A or B. I am pretty sure any other recordings on the vertical plane would have failed too. Have you labelled the signal wires? If not, please do so. ( wire 1, wire 2, wire 3, wire 4). You can then swap and diagnose if required.

If you want to diagnose this, I am happy to help. You have to do exactly as requested.

Test 1.
Disable all recordings.
Set preferred tuner as A. Select BBC WS or any other service on vertical plane. Restart. Confirm you are using tuner A by looking at tuner on infobar or front display. Does it work or do you get a tune failed message?

Test 2.
Disable all recordings.
Set preferred tuner as B. Select BBC WS or any other service on vertical plane. Restart. Confirm you are using tuner B by looking at tuner on infobar or front display. Does it work or do you get a tune failed message?

[SkyFan]

Do you have that screenshot please as it wasn't in your last post. Never mind. I see it now. Thanks

[SkyFan]

Sorry, I tried before to get the frequency and polorization from the transponder menu but I guess that was wrong. I tried that because the screenshot you showed me won't work on my box since my remote doesn't have an Info button. So instead when watching a channel I just pressed OK twice to get the frequency and polorization from there and they matched what you wrote in your previous post however my BBC WS was 10787 MHz (perhaps you made a typo).

I did everything you said. I set debug logs to local time. I labelled my signal wires.

Test 1 showed Tuner A was in use. Didn't get any error messages.
Test 2 showed Tuner B was in use. Didn't get any error messages.

[abu baniaz]

There is no need to press the info button show the channel list. Just to repeat, The easiest way to to see the transponder details is to press up (next to OK), highlight the service and look at the screen. Anyway, don't worry about it for now.

Test 3.
Disable all recordings.
Set preferred tuner as A. Select BBC R1 (10802 MHz Horizontal) Restart. Confirm you are using tuner A by looking at tuner on infobar (press OK) or front display.
Start a recording of BBC R1 for 5 minutes (Only tuner A will still be in use.)
Select BBC WS (10788 MHz Vertical), receiver should start using tuner B. Does BBC WS work is is there a problem?


Test 4.
Disable all recordings.
Set preferred tuner as B. Select BBC R1 (10802 MHz Horizontal) Restart. Confirm you are using tuner B by looking at tuner on infobar (press OK) or front display.
Start a recording of BBC R1 for 5 minutes (Only tuner B will still be in use.)
Select BBC WS (10788 MHz Vertical), receiver should start using tuner A. Does BBC WS work is is there a problem?


Upload debug logs please.

[SkyFan]

Test 3: Yes BBC WS worked

Test 4: Yes BBC WS worked

Logs attached from several days ago, sorry for the late reply. At the moment the problem has gotten worse. I'm recording the following 5 radio stations but only LBC is recording properly and the others have a zero filesize.

BBC R1
BBC R1 X
BBC R2
BBC WS
LBC

61922
61923
61924
61925

[abu baniaz]

I am at a loss as to why manually selecting a service works and it being done by a timer does not.

I'll try and test on Duo 4K at the weekend or after Eid.

[SkyFan]

Thanks. This zero filesize bug has been happening on my Vu+ Ultimo4K box on OpenViX 5.4.001 for several months. Now none of the freesat radio stations are recording properly (zero filesize) and they are the only channels that are being recorded at the same time as each other even though I have 4 LNBs connected to the box. The only way I was able to get the radio stations to record properly again was to stop all the currently recording radio station timers then restart my box. Then the repeat timers would start recording all the radio stations properly again. If the LNB cables were faulty then surely that solution wouldn't work?

You mentioned via PM you wanted to know the times the recordings failed. The below radio stations had a zero filesize so that must mean the recordings failed as soon as they started recording. My daily repeat timers were set for all stations below for 11.59am - 00:01am and for 00:00am - 12.01pm or 12.05pm

BBC R1
BBC R1 X
BBC R2
BBC WS

Vu+ Ultimo4K Timers.xml is attached here: 61974

2nd Box

In the past few days I'm now getting the same bug on my Vu+ Duo4K SE box on OpenViX 5.4.003. I have a freesat repeat timer set to record ITV 3 at 5.55am-8.35am every weekday. The recording has a zero filesize on May 7 even though it's the only channel being recorded at that time and even though I have 2 LNB cables connected to the box!

At 12:54pm on May 7 I also pressed the record button on ITV 3 on freesat to record whatever was on at that time. The recording immediately ended as I got a message on my screen saying there was a timer conflict as I had a repeat timer set to record Drama on Freesat at 12.55pm - 2.30pm. That's strange since those 2 channels were the only things being recorded at the same time as each other and I have 2 physical LNB cables connected to the box so there should be no issues with recording 2 standard definition channels at once. I don't think this is a faulty LNB cables issue since this box is connected to 1 Sky dish and the other box with the same issue is connected to a different Sky dish. What's weird is that I can record several other HD TV stations at the same time as each other at around 7pm-10pm yet I can't record ITV 3 on it's own when nothing else is recording at the same time!

I've changed the log to use local time so hopefully the recording will fail again tomorrow morning and I can give you the logs then for this particular box.


You said the next test will be to swap cables over. What do you mean by that?

[ccs]

I'll have a play with you timers, but it will have to wait until tomorrow.

[abu baniaz]

Just in case it is relevant for your second box, ITV 3 (SD) has moved from 10906 MHz, Vertical to 10891 MHz, Horizontal.
Old service reference 1:0:1:2814:806:2:11A0000:0:0:0:
New service reference 1:0:1:27B3:805:2:11A0000:0:0:0:

I don't know what the failure states mean "failed: error -6". Hopefully somebody who knows will post details.

Just for information, your box is using tuner J for some recordings.

[SkyFan]

Another log and Timers file for my Ultimo box is attached for you. Should be a lot clearer this time.

The following radio stations had a zero filesize:

May 12 11:59am: BBC WS
May 12 11:59am: BBC R2
May 12 11:59am: BBC R1X
May 12 11:59am: BBC R1

This station recorded fine:

May 12 11:59am: LBC

62033
62034

[ccs]

The debug log only lasts for 4 minutes, starting at 18:16.

[SkyFan]

How do I correctly get a debug log then? I thought I had to restart the GUI to get the log file created so I could download it.

[ccs]

Once you've switched on debug logs, restarting the gui/rebooting creates a new (another) log file. You can simply grab a copy of the current log without restarting.

Otherwise, you need to work out which is the relevant log from the date and time stamps.

Logs get deleted after a configurable number of days.