Dual channel entries or autotimer weirdness?

[something_fishy]

I have Only Connect set as an autotimer looking for a partial match on "Only Connect" (case-insensitive),

Require description to be unique = Any service/recording
Check for uniqueness in = Title and Short description (behaviour is unchanged if this is changed to Title and all descriptions).
There are no other restrictions set.

This is not setting a timed record on BBC2 HD as it appears and can be browsed from the EPG:
61521

And Only Connect is not appearing in the timers list:
61522

However it does appear in the list generated by the Autotimers preview and it does appear to be setting a timed record for an identical time on a second BBC2 HD entry that is outside of any of my bouquets. This is the result of a yellow button/EPG search run from the single channel listing screen:
61523

My apologies I'm a novice in using this box so I don't know if this is working as intended (surely not), if there's a switch to remove duplicate channels that I've missed or a problem with how the bouquets or the autotimers are set.
But how do I make the channel listings unique (it makes reviewing whether autotimers are working correctly difficult if nothing else)?

Let me know if any more info is needed.

cheers

[abu baniaz]

Restrict AutoTimer to the service/channel you want to use.

Although the channels appear to be duplicates, they are different. They have unique service references.

[something_fishy]

@Abu Baniaz
Thank you for responding.

I think in this case the issue is that the autotimers match algorithm is failing - deleting and removing from trash the previous episode has allowed the recording to be scheduled correctly.

What confused me is the recording icon in the second instance of BBC2 HD when I did an EPG search and the fact that Autotimer preview suggested that the program would be recorded.

Do you have any advice for what settings work consistently best with the autotimer?

Thanks

[BrokenUnusableAccount]

The 'Check for uniqueness in' part of the Autotimer plug-in doesn't always work as one would expect.
Descriptions can count as the same even if there are differences.
See this long thread: https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?63274

[abu baniaz]

Unless you restrict the Autotimer to the service/channel, it will set a timer on any channel that matches the other criteria you are using. So I don't share your conclusion. Just to repeat what I said earlier, when setting an auto timer, restrict it to the service/channel. I am guessing you are looking at the timer notifications in your bouquet. The absence of the notifications causing concern that the recording is not scheduled. If you are using EPG search, select the service in your bouquets. Or use Single EPG on the service that is in your bouquet.

If on the other hand, you are implying something that you have not explicitly said, i.e the scheduled recording on the other BBC2 HD failed. If , confirm and we can look at your setup.

[something_fishy]

@Abu Baniaz

Unless you restrict the Autotimer to the service/channel, it will set a timer on any channel that matches the other criteria you are using. So I don't share your conclusion. Just to repeat what I said earlier, when setting an auto timer, restrict it to the service/channel. I am guessing you are looking at the timer notifications in your bouquet. The absence of the notifications causing concern that the recording is not scheduled. If you are using EPG search, select the service in your bouquets. Or use Single EPG on the service that is in your bouquet.
Thank you, this is user error on my part. I have been caught out that the box is not consolidating the two versions of the same channel (in this case SID 6960 and SID 6940 on 10847 V 23000 3/4). So setting the autotimer from the EPG and restricting either to the service or the bouquet will avoid the issue.


If on the other hand, you are implying something that you have not explicitly said, i.e the scheduled recording on the other BBC2 HD failed. If , confirm and we can look at your setup
However what is still confusing me here is that:
1) The autotimer preview indicated that a recording would take place at the correct time on Monday.
2) The timers list did not include a recording at the correct time on Monday.
3) An EPG search on Only Connect did find a recording scheduled for the correct time on Monday (just on a channel not in the currently used bouquet).

I understand why it did not appear in the grid EPG or the single channel EPG as these are both a subset of channels defined by the bouquet in use. But am I correct in thinking that the timers list (short press on the Timer button on the Gigablue remote) should be across all services not those in a specific bouquet? If so, point 2 seems to contradict 1 and 3.

I think that I have hit the problem discussed in the threat alluded to by BefuddledBrian - the description field is too close to what was recorded already to be considered unique. That is a problem for my use case but at least I understand the reason for the problem.

Thanks

[abu baniaz]

Pressing green to list timers will show all record timers, whether those channels are in a bouquet or not. Whether scheduled manually or created by autotimer. It is worth emphasising autotimers create timers. So if the auto timer search criteria were not met or there was clash, a timer would not be created. The autotimer preview shows the auto timers you set. Whether or not those result in a timer being created or not is a different thing altogether. There has to be a method of showing the user what auto timers have been set, irrespective of whether they will succeed or not.

Some good questions.

[ccs]

I'm not sure if "EPG Search" is equivalent to an "autotimer preview", I use it as an indication of when a programme is being broadcast.

Have a look at OpenWebif, it has options to "Simulate" and "Test" autotimers.

[something_fishy]

The autotimer preview shows the auto timers you set. Whether or not those result in a timer being created or not is a different thing altogether.
Ah OK, that was my misunderstanding - I interpreted it as doing a dry run of whether the autotimer would generate hits (particularly as it takes a fair amount of time to return anything).


Have a look at OpenWebif, it has options to "Simulate" and "Test" autotimers
Thank you, I will do.

May I ask a question on autotimer use?

My understanding is that the autotimer script runs periodically (every 19 mins in my case) and sets timers depending on whether it finds an entry in the EPG that satisfies its criteria. If a timer is thus created (say for three days hence) and the schedule subsequently changes will the script delete the existing timer when it creates a new one.

(I'm used to software where the recording scheduler gives the appearance of running continuously and updating real time and the background working is hidden from the user, so autotimers (though I like the ability to constrain to time periods etc easily) feel very clunky).

[ronand]

There is absolutely no need for autotimer to be polling every 19 minutes. EPG data is only updated once a day so running it any more frequently than that is pointless.

[Joe_90]

Yes - AutoTimer will modify an existing timer entry if the EPG entry changes or will delete it if the programme is removed from the schedule.

Not sure about the "once a day" change to the EPG. It can change dynamically, but the EPG reader may only run at intervals of hours. Agreed that AutoTimer polling so frequently is somewhat pointless.

[birdman]

There has to be a method of showing the user what auto timers have been set, irrespective of whether they will succeed or not.The list of AutoTimers show which AutoTimers have been set.
If you save it then all matches will end up as Timers, so you just look at that list. Those set by AutoTimers are marked with a different icon to one-off timers.
AutoTimers don't "succeed" or "fail". They match something or they don't. To not match is not a "failure". I have ATs that I leave running all of the time even though the program is only broadcast for half of the year, but I don't consider it to be failing when the programme isn't being broadcast.

[birdman]

Yes - AutoTimer will modify an existing timer entry if the EPG entry changes or will delete it if the programme is removed from the schedule.I don't think they'll delete it. It just gets left there.

[birdman]

There is absolutely no need for autotimer to be polling every 19 minutes. EPG data is only updated once a day so running it any more frequently than that is pointless.My EPG (via EIT) is being updated "continuously".

[ronand]

Technically yes but the broadcasters don't update the data continuously - it will get added to 7 days in advance but once a day to poll should be enough (it would still catch any changes)

[ccs]

Technically yes but the broadcasters don't update the data continuously - it will get added to 7 days in advance but once a day to poll should be enough (it would still catch any changes)

I run autotimer on freeview every 25 minutes, the epg is updated continuously, and it catches programme re-schedules, even 30 minutes ahead.

[ronand]

I run autotimer on freeview every 25 minutes, the epg is updated continuously, and it catches programmes re-schedules, even 30 minutes ahead.

I've never noticed it updating regularly on satellite.

[Joe_90]

It depends on how you have your EPG settings configured. The Sky EPG reader (OpenTvzapper) only runs every 6 hours by default, so it won't catch schedule updates any more frequently unless you configure it to do so. If you have the Freesat EPG reader enabled as well and you are tuned to a Freesat channel, then it will update as soon as the broadcasters update the schedule. The EIT reader for Freeview/Freesat should pick up changes "on the fly". So, it depends on your viewing habits and EPG settings. If I'm watching Saorview (Irish version of Freeview), then running AutoTimer every 30 minutes is not going to pick up EPG changes from Freesat/Sky as nothing is reading them. Similarly, if the box is in standby, the tuners are inactive, so nothing is updating the EPG.

[ronand]

I must rejig my setup a little. I had reverted to crossepg for 28e epg as it was working fine for VPS recording - the data downloaded via the opentvzapper didn't seem to work correctly. I'm testing that now as it seems to have been fixed. I don't use the freesat epg at all.

[Joe_90]

I think the recommendation from Huevos is that you don't have the Freesat EPG reader enabled if you are using the OpenTVzapper (or EPGRefresh which does the same thing). I also preferred the CrossEPG utility and ran it once a day, but now use OpenTVzapper and let it update every six hours.

[something_fishy]

Thank you all
I can see that the first rule of PC-based PVRs operates here too.
Anything that can lead to a lengthy discussion of how frequently an EPG should be updated will do so.

In my case I use only the OpenTV downloader built into OpenVIX (one of the great joys of this box is not having to deal with sourcing EPG data and mapping it to physical channels). Its set to retrieve data every three hours because, well why not? I'm not overloading someone's webserver or violating anyones terms and conditions and it doesn't seem to cause the GigaBlue box any problems. I don't know if SkyTV change the data that frequently but the point is that they might. Obviously the objective is to have EPG data updated real time.

The EPG I get using OpenTV is more up to date that the daily download from Schedules Direct I do (mid morning) for my primary PVR. It includes Covid briefings that the Schedules Direct data don't.

As to the 19 minute autotimer poll, same sort of logic applies, the marginal cost seems zero so why not.

If the computational overhead starts to get a problem then I review. That is a potential concern - comments about hundreds of autotimers sitting dormant are therefore comforting. That's precisely how I use a PVR; the only things that we watch live are sports and news.