View Full Version : no signal when connecting aerail to f plug wall socket but works wth sat dish
:confused:Hi ,
I have a dual wall sockets with f plug connections to 2 rooms. The rooms are connected between sockets via coax.
The sockets work when using a sat connection but do not get signal when connected to terestrial aerail when using f plug to UHF type adaptors, tv says no signal?
So it likes the sat signal but not the terestrail signal, any ideas whats going on?
Maybe the house was wired for twin sat cables like on sky + hd boxes
Do you have a sat dish with how many outlets?
Tv would need to use an aerial for a freeview signal and not a sat cable for feed.
Tvs can have a built in sat tuner and built in rf for freeview.
Do you have an aerial and sat feed and need a diplexer to split it ?
I put the cables in both are coax sockets, one connected to sat dish and the other is left free for any type of connection.
So the one that is free i connected the arerial to it , ptoblem is it will not pick up signals fomn areial. But if i reconnect is to sat dish it works for sat signals only
I thought the coax can be used for sat or terestrial signals?
abu baniaz
05-01-21, 23:28
Have you checked the aerail is fine? When testing, are you disconnecting any other devices?
If you disconnect the faceplate, does it work?
I put the cables in both are coax sockets, one connected to sat dish and the other is left free for any type of connection.
So the one that is free i connected the arerial to it , ptoblem is it will not pick up signals fomn areial. But if i reconnect is to sat dish it works for sat signals only
I thought the coax can be used for sat or terestrial signals?
Coax can be used for both aerial and satellite. Satellite is the more demanding application so if it works for satellite it is more than adequate for terrestrail (aerial). If you install the correct duplexers at both ends you can actaully send the aerial and satellite down the same cable at the same time. I use F to belling lee (terrestrail TV connection) converters without problems
What exactly is your configuration?
Is one outlet from your wall plate connected to one satellite LNB output at the other end (and nothing else)?
Is the other outlet from your wall plate connected to the the aerial at the other end (and nothing else)?
You indicate that the wall-plates in the 2 rooms are also connected to each other via coax so how does this work assuming that one wall plate in one room is also connected to both a satellite LNB and aerial? Have you T'd off somewhere or there actually 2 coax from satellite/aerial to room 1 and another two coax from satellite/aerial to room 2.
Are these wall plates home made F barrels or have they been purchased? -If the latter post a link to the source of the wall-plate.
Do you get the same results in both rooms?
The aerial works , the face plates work only when connected to sat dish. It will be much clearer if you see the attached pdf.
IM trying to get the tv in room2 t pick up the aerial signal when using a looped coax between sockets. See attached.
It works when use the loop cable to extend the the saterlight signal to room 2 by looping the 2 sat wallplates, but not in the above config when looping the arerial signal between sockets.
The aerial works , the face plates work only when connected to sat dish. It will be much clearer if you see the attached pdf.
IM trying to get the tv in room2 t pick up the aerial signal when using a looped coax between sockets. See attached.
It works when use the loop cable to extend the the saterlight signal to room 2 by looping the 2 sat wallplates, but not in the above config when looping the arerial signal between sockets.
To be clear....
When the TV is plugged into the aerial in Room 1 you can get the signal on TV 1?
When you then disconnect the wire to TV 1 and then connect to the coax going to room 2 you no longer get a signal on TV 2?
I assume that TV 1 is disconnected when there is no aerial signal on TV2.
I assume that you have switched TV 2 to the digital tuner input and not the analogue tuner. Many TVs still cater for both alathough analogue TV in the UK has been turned off.
From you diagram I see nothing wrong with your basic setup.
Does the aerial input to room 1 have a wall socket or is it just a flying lead that plugs into the back of TV 1 and when routed to room 2 you use a Belling Lee (coax)to F adapter.
BrokenUnusableAccount
07-01-21, 02:09
Do you really mean UHF connectors?
Because they are horrible things invented in the 1930s and, ironically, are not at all suitable for use at what we nowadays call UHF frequencies. Not great for VHF either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UHF_connector
Do you really mean UHF connectors?
Because they are horrible things invented in the 1930s and, ironically, are not at all suitable for use at what we nowadays call UHF frequencies. Not great for VHF either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UHF_connector
No, Belling Lee - the standard connector that has been used on TVs for decades.
http://www.megalithia.com/elect/bellinglee/index.html
The adapters
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F-Type-Coaxial-Female-to-RF-TV-Aerial-Male-Adapter-Satellite-Coax-Connector-Sat/352612381282?epid=5030565518&hash=item521955f262:g:oFEAAOSwTeNfeq7A
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F-Type-Coaxial-Female-to-RF-TV-Aerial-Female-Adapter-Satellite-Coax-Connector/352925270000?hash=item522bfc3ff0:g:ydkAAOSwfzJeFdJ U
I'm assuming that the OP has a F to F fly lead to which he can screw on the appropriate adapter to mate with the aerial socket on the wall and to the aerial input on his TV.
To be clear....
When the TV is plugged into the aerial in Room 1 you can get the signal on TV 1? YES
When you then disconnect the wire to TV 1 and then connect to the coax going to room 2 you no longer get a signal on TV 2? Correct no signal from aerail (but it accepts sinal from sat dish if i routed the cable to room 2.
I assume that TV 1 is disconnected when there is no aerial signal on TV2. yes TV 1 is disconnected, I even tried a spliter and tv1 works and not TV 2.
I assume that you have switched TV 2 to the digital tuner input and not the analogue tuner. Many TVs still cater for both alathough analogue TV in the UK has been turned off. Yes digital tunner when scanning channels
From you diagram I see nothing wrong with your basic setup.
Does the aerial input to room 1 have a wall socket or is it just a flying lead that plugs into the back of TV 1 and when routed to room 2 you use a Belling Lee (coax)to F adapter. Room 1 has an aerial socket which goes into tv1. So I tried connecting it room 2 but signal dose not go thru
I have a feeling it could be f plug to rf connectors i got them form ebay ?
I have a feeling it could be f plug to rf connectors i got them form ebay ?
All mine have come from Ebay and although some are slightly better finish than others they have been OK.
Have you screwed then on tight enough? A spanner or a couple of pair of pliers may/will allow you another half to three quarters turn. If the finish on the thread looks a bit rough perhaps smear a TINY bit of grease/vaseline/vicks on the thread before screwing on the F connector.
Check that you haven't bent the centre pin of the f connector.
All mine have come from Ebay and although some are slightly better finish than others they have been OK.
Have you screwed then on tight enough? A spanner or a couple of pair of pliers may/will allow you another half to three quarters turn. If the finish on the thread looks a bit rough perhaps smear a TINY bit of grease/vaseline/vicks on the thread before screwing on the F connector.
Check that you haven't bent the centre pin of the f connector.
I checked all connections still the same problem in room 2 only
If sending a saterlite feed I get a signal going thru and gett approx TV 1500 channels fta ON 28E, if sending aerial terestrial signal i only get 12 digitaL channels the rest say no signal.
I will have to check the wiring in the face plate at both ends and send a pic
abu baniaz
09-01-21, 14:45
Bypass the faceplates as the first step of fault-finding. They may be blocking some frequencies.
I have attached some photos of cable and connector convertors im using.
I have attached one of the wall plates in room1 the connection on the left which c with the arrow shown is whats going into room 2 wall plate.
The connection on the right is what goes straight out to my sat dish and its what i plug my tv with built in sat tunner too.
Room 2 wall plate was difficut to photo as the wring was tight behind it and I did not want to break anything
I have attached some photos of cable and connector convertors im using.
A few observations
The centre connector on the left hand side doesn’t look if its fully under the screw. It seems to be jammed between the screw and the wall of the fixing.
Coax cable that is crushed or folded as shown in the photo can behave in strange ways in that some frequencies may be effected and others not. It’s also possible to crush a cable with the use of inappropriate cable clips.
Ideally for digital TV and satellite any faceplate should be fully screened. A faceplate as shown on the photos can be the source of local electrical impulse appearing on the signal.
However, I’m still not sure why terrestrial TV would be blocked whilst satellite through the same cable and faceplates is OK. For satellite to work there must be a valid DC path to power the LNB and satellite is a much higher frequency than terrestrial TV.
One possibility is that the aerial signal level is marginal at the socket in room 1 but further attenuated by the time that it has gone through the extra cable to room 2 BUT I wouldn’t expect this to be true for a relatively short length of CT100/WF100/RG6 type (or equivalent) cable between rooms unless there is an inappropriate join in the cable along its run. The satellite output will have a higher signal level so the extra attenuation of signal will not matter.
Is it possible to use one of the TVs in both rooms to compare the signal levels at the two outputs? You have to use the same TV as the tuners will have different sensitivities and the signal level displayed on each TV will be an arbitrary level that cannot be compared between different manufacturers or models.
Is the cable run between room 1 and room 2 a continuous length of cable with no intermediate joins? What is the approximate length of the cable? Do you know what type of cable has been used for the run between room1 and room 2?
Although a very old article you can generally identify different types of cable …..
http://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/articles/coax-cable-quality.shtml
Does the cable between room 1 and 2 run outside of the house? If so have you included a drip loop in the cable just before bringing it through the wall? Water ingress into or to the end of the cable can have unexpected performance results.
The drip loop is a slack bit of cable that sits lower than the rest. The whole purpose is to let water pile up at the bottom and drip off. If your cables were tight, water from outside could travel down the wire and get straight into an outlet or faceplate.
Are you sure on the TV is room 2 that you are actually scanning for the correct transmitter and or the correct frequencies? For instance I have encountered TVs that have more than one mode of scanning. One mode is where the region is first chosen but unfortunately the info the TV had inbuilt was so far out-of-date that it scaned the wrong frequencies. The other mode had to be used which scanned all terrestrial frequencies.
Although I’m NOT suggesting that you change anything at this stage one easy way of making a fully screened faceplate that just routes the cable through is to fit F plugs to the cables that come through the wall. Drill a blank faceplate to accept F barrel connectors and screw the barrel connectors into the faceplate.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-F-Barrel-Connector-Joiner-Coupler-Adaptor-Socket-Sky-Coax-cable-UK-SELLER/123418934233?hash=item1cbc577bd9:g:AzsAAOSwB8Rbvxv d
https://www.screwfix.com/p/1-gang-blanking-plate-white/4104d
Note: if buying F barrel connectors just make sure the seller is including the fixing nuts and washers. These connectors are also used for joining cables so some (many) sellers will not include the nuts and washers. A deeper back box may also be required.
A few observations
The centre connector on the left hand side doesn’t look if its fully under the screw. It seems to be jammed between the screw and the wall of the fixing. tried pusing the copper wire down so it touches the screw but dont want to break anything if i force it
Coax cable that is crushed or folded as shown in the photo can behave in strange ways in that some frequencies may be effected and others not. It’s also possible to crush a cable with the use of inappropriate cable clips.noted
Ideally for digital TV and satellite any faceplate should be fully screened. A faceplate as shown on the photos can be the source of local electrical impulse appearing on the signal. noted
However, I’m still not sure why terrestrial TV would be blocked whilst satellite through the same cable and faceplates is OK. For satellite to work there must be a valid DC path to power the LNB and satellite is a much higher frequency than terrestrial TV. yes its very strange
One possibility is that the aerial signal level is marginal at the socket in room 1 but further attenuated by the time that it has gone through the extra cable to room 2 BUT I wouldn’t expect this to be true for a relatively short length of CT100/WF100/RG6 type (or equivalent) cable between rooms unless there is an inappropriate join in the cable along its run. The satellite output will have a higher signal level so the extra attenuation of signal will not matter.its all once cable socket to socket
Is it possible to use one of the TVs in both rooms to compare the signal levels at the two outputs? You have to use the same TV as the tuners will have different sensitivities and the signal level displayed on each TV will be an arbitrary level that cannot be compared between different manufacturers or models. i get all channels i put the tv in room 1 both sat and terestrial, sinal level fromn sat in room 2 is 100% but not for aireal feed as i get if lucky 12 channels only or none
Is the cable run between room 1 and room 2 a continuous length of cable with no intermediate joins? What is the approximate length of the cable? Do you know what type of cable has been used for the run between room1 and room 2?All one cable approx 7-8m
Although a very old article you can generally identify different types of cable …..
http://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/articles/coax-cable-quality.shtml
Does the cable between room 1 and 2 run outside of the house? If so have you included a drip loop in the cable just before bringing it through the wall? Water ingress into or to the end of the cable can have unexpected performance results.the cabels are inside and run under trhe floor see post 6 of my diagram
The drip loop is a slack bit of cable that sits lower than the rest. The whole purpose is to let water pile up at the bottom and drip off. If your cables were tight, water from outside could travel down the wire and get straight into an outlet or faceplate.
Are you sure on the TV is room 2 that you are actually scanning for the correct transmitter and or the correct frequencies? For instance I have encountered TVs that have more than one mode of scanning. One mode is where the region is first chosen but unfortunately the info the TV had inbuilt was so far out-of-date that it scaned the wrong frequencies. The other mode had to be used which scanned all terrestrial frequencies.scanned for digital terstrial TV channels only , im shire i selcted london/ crysatl palace. I fi i use indoor aerail it works although ther eis interearance if i walk arounf the room as expected
Although I’m NOT suggesting that you change anything at this stage one easy way of making a fully screened faceplate that just routes the cable through is to fit F plugs to the cables that come through the wall. Drill a blank faceplate to accept F barrel connectors and screw the barrel connectors into the faceplate. all cabels have f conbectors as shown with push fit adatotors where required
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-F-Barrel-Connector-Joiner-Coupler-Adaptor-Socket-Sky-Coax-cable-UK-SELLER/123418934233?hash=item1cbc577bd9:g:AzsAAOSwB8Rbvxv d
https://www.screwfix.com/p/1-gang-blanking-plate-white/4104d
Note: if buying F barrel connectors just make sure the seller is including the fixing nuts and washers. These connectors are also used for joining cables so some (many) sellers will not include the nuts and washers. A deeper back box may also be required.
I may have to call somone in to look at the faced plate, but will see if i can push the copper wire down to the screw
i get all channels i put the tv in room 1 both sat and terestrial, sinal level fromn sat in room 2 is 100% but not for aireal feed as i get if lucky 12 channels only or none
You cannot compare the signal levels for satellite and terrestrial and assume that if one has enough signal then the other must have the same.
i) the signal level from your LNB and the signal from your aerial will be completely different.
ii) different tuners for satellite and terrestrial and they will have different sensitivities.
The fact that you can get all signals on TV 2 with an indoor aerial suggests that you probably live in a good reception area for crystal palace.
im shire i selcted london/ crysatl palace
Is this exactly the same method of channel scan you used for your indoor aerial? As I mentioned before I’ve seen TVs that scan incorrectly if told the transmitter but scan OK if the scanning is for all possible channels. The broadcast channels from the transmitters have changed over the past few years so any information inbuilt to the TV about scanning from, say, London or Crystal Palace may be out of date. Try plugging in your indoor aerial and scanning in EXACTLY the same way to see what results you get.
all cabels have f conbectors as shown with push fit adatotors where required
This shouldn’t be the problem.
I’m assuming that you are using EXACTLY the same fly lead from the wall plate to your TV for both satellite and aerial and TV in room 2 (using the adapter for the case of the aerial). If you are using different leads than perhaps suspect the fly lead.
I only suggested that a fully screen faceplate could be constructed from F barrel connectors which means that you don’t have to use an adapter at the faceplate.
http://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/reference/resources/multiple-outlet-plates.pdf
Note: I’m not suggesting that the un-screened faceplate you have is the problem unless there is poor connection or crushed cable at the termination – just that there are better DIY solutions.
Its a new tv I channel scanned using the indoor aerial which works, althugh being indoor it dose pixelate from time to time or if i move about in the room 2.Prior to that I did try scanning from aerial socket in room1 a ns that worked ok before i moved it to room2 and wall mouted it.
The cable running between face plates under the floor to room 2 is OFC Copper digital coax suitable fr virgin media cable tv/broadband modem.
I have tested by connecting my broad band modem to it and that works ok, as wel as my saterlight dish signal
Im usnf the sacme fly lead from face plate to tv, even tgris another coax and still the same problem with aerial feed in that room.
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