[TIVIAR-ALPHA+] Freeview Tuner doesn't show Freeview channels [Archive] - Satellite Support Forum .: Home of OpenViX Team:.

SkyFan

22-08-20, 16:35

abu baniaz

22-08-20, 21:36

>I assume all tuners can be used at once?
Yes you can.

>The freeview tuner doesn't work
But you say it finds channels later

>How do I get the freeview channels to appear and in HD?
Tuner are for receiving signal. Creating bouquets is your job or you can use a plugin. Scanning the frequencies that contain HD services will obtain HD Services. Install the Terrestrial scan plugin and use/run it. There is no need to run it regularly, only when a retune is required.

>How many channels can be recorded at once with a single freeview cable?
Depends on which frequency you are tuned to. They all vary. Check "Current transponder" for each one or check a website

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/multiplexes

>Can I use a splitter to get 2 freeview cables? I will plug the second cable into a USB tuner.
Yes you can split Terrestrial signal.

> I press the OK button the channel info popup on the bottom of the screen says it's a HbbTV channel.
There are no BBC applications you can use on. Ignore it.

abu baniaz

22-08-20, 21:37

Maybe an idea to flash 5.3 039 instead of being on 5.2 022

adm

22-08-20, 21:49

My box has 2 satellite tuners and 1 freeview tuner. I assume all tuners can be used at once?

The satellite tuners work fine but the freeview tuner doeesn't work. I've added it as:

Tuner C: DVB-T2.
United Kingdom
All regions, United Kingdom, (Europe DVB-T/T2)

Then I did an Automatic scan on Tuner C.

On my VU+ Duo 2 box I would exit all menus then press the Down arrow on my remote. I would got to Providers > Unknown. That was where the freeview channels would appear on that box when I used a USB freeview tuner. However on my Tiviar Alpha+ box that has a physical freeview tuner as a part of the box, when I go to Unknown I can only see standard definition channels and none of them display a picture. When I try to display any of the channels and I press the OK button the channel info popup on the bottom of the screen says it's a HbbTV channel.

How do I get the freeview channels to appear and in HD?

How many channels can be recorded at once with a single freeview cable?

Can I use a splitter to get 2 freeview cables? I will plug the second cable into a USB tuner.

Try with ABM for Freeview for your local transmitter

menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> autobouquetmaker -> providers -> Freeview UK (region/transmitter etc.)
then
menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> autobouquetmaker -> start scan

You can use a splitter. Ideally one completely screened in a metal can as sold by the sponsor. They may/will come with F connectors but you can get F to coax (belling lee) adapters for around a quid that would fit on the end of a F type fly lead.

Example (male and female adaptors are available)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F-Type-Coaxial-Female-to-RF-TV-Aerial-Male-Adapter-Satellite-Coax-Connector-Sat/352612381282?epid=5030565518&hash=item521955f262:g:1MMAAOSw~~NcglLz

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-Auline-Coax-Socket-Female-to-F-Connector-Adaptor-Convert-Aerial-Male-F-Plug/252446848657?hash=item3ac7013691:g:zXYAAOSwEK9Tual b

One tuner is required for each Freeview MUX [Multiplex(er)] you are tuned into. Each MUX carries a number of TV channels/programs and you can record 8+ of these programs at the same time and/or 8+ programs on a combination of Freeview and Satellite. With one tuner you will only be able to watch or record the channels on that MUX but not from the possible 5 other MUXs on the transmitter mast. Two tuners will allow you to tune into two MUXs simultaneaously and watch/record any TV channels carried on those two MUXs.

The list of TV channels carried on each MUX (Multiplex) is shown at

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/multiplexes

adm

23-08-20, 00:40

You can use a splitter. Ideally one completely screened in a metal can

http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/Splitter/

BrianTheTechieSnail

23-08-20, 04:06

http://www.admac.myzen.co.uk/Splitter/

It's disappointing that that page doesn't seem to particularly disapprove of the utterly hopeless one that's just two resistors compared with the last fully screened inductive one which is probably quite reasonable.
It's also worth pointing out that if the signal is pretty weak you might be better off with a combined signal booster and splitter.

adm

23-08-20, 08:10

It's disappointing that that page doesn't seem to particularly disapprove of the utterly hopeless one that's just two resistors compared with the last fully screened inductive one which is probably quite reasonable.
It's also worth pointing out that if the signal is pretty weak you might be better off with a combined signal booster and splitter.

The point is unless you take the last two examples to destruction you will not know if they are inductive or resistive. The plastic case is usually moulded on and untill removed/destroyed it's practically impossible by inspection to tell if there is a full metal screen beneath.

It's possible that even the first example from a different manufacturer may be inferior, but unlikely.

It's much like using unscreened or fully screened wallplates

http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/wallplates.htm

Note: Satcure no longer trade.

Avoid any potential problems with local electrical interference and go for the fully screened products in the first place.

BrianTheTechieSnail

25-08-20, 15:44

adm

25-08-20, 17:13

You might be able to make a good guess at them being hopeless using an ohm meter.
If any combination isn't either near zero ohms or near completely open be suspicious.
(Near zero probably being less than 1 or maybe 2 ohms and near open being greater than say 10k ohm)

Hmm, easy to do before purchase over the Net :) I'm sure the retailer would allow you to remove them from the sealed bubble pack and then accept back the reject(s) :)

SkyFan

25-08-20, 18:34

adm

25-08-20, 20:46

I ran the "Terrestrial Scan" plugin and it found channels but I can't see the channels anywhere. Under Providers I see:

BSkyB
Freesat
SES
SES Astra
Unknown

I don't see the Freeview channels in any of those.

Is that the providers list in
menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> autobouquetmaker -> providers

or is it somewhere else that you are looking? When in the web interface and the bouquets editor the "Unknown" contains the freeview channels.

In which country are you residing? If in the UK use AutobouquetMaker (as in post #4) to get the Freeview Bouquet and channels. However it may help if you were running OpenVix 5.3.39 rather than 5.2.022

Maybe also set menu -> setup -> EPG -> Grid EPG -> Show Boquets on launch = yes

SkyFan

25-08-20, 21:02

adm

25-08-20, 22:07

When watching a channel if you exit out of everything then press the down arrow then press the button to view "Providers" is where I was looking. I'm in the UK - London. I'm not bothered about AutoBouquets Maker at the moment. I'm just trying to view the list of freeview channels.

The Freeview (Terestrial FTA) channels will be in "Unknown". If you have cofigured your box to show a transmitter or satellite icon then the contents of "unknown" will show a transmitter tower icon.

ABM will give you that list with a Freeview UK bouquet heading in around 30 seconds!

abu baniaz

25-08-20, 23:11

Freeview services don't show under provider, same as Virgin. They always come up as unknown. So if you want to use Provider viewing mode, look in the unknown category.

In orbital mode, you can delect them under Terrestrial.

Or better still, use Bouquet mode and select them from the Terrestrial bouquet.

There is no need for you to use ABM.

SkyFan

26-08-20, 01:56

As I said previously, when watching a channel if I exit out of everything then press the down arrow I see a screen that has this:
Red button: All
Green button: Satellites
Yellow button: Providers
Blue Button: Favourites

I pressed the yellow button to view "Providers". Then I select "Unknown". All the channels there are HbbTV. Is that the Providers menu you were referring to?

I don't know what you mean by this "In orbital mode, you can delect them under Terrestrial"
Or this "Or better still, use Bouquet mode and select them from the Terrestrial bouquet."

If I press the blue Button to view Favourites there's a Terrestrial menu at the top. That just has HbbTV channels again. I can't see any Freeview bouquets in Favourites.

Could you please give me step by step instructions as to where to find the menu that has the Freeview channels in.

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 02:17

BBC channels will show the HBBTV sign because that is what they have on the data tables.

Which viewing mode do you want to use?
All (can work for you): Select the services with a tower once you enable service type icons
Satellites (orbital position - will work). Select the Terrestrial one
Provider (waste of your time). But will be in unknown category
Bouquets (will work for you). Select the Terrestrial bouquet

Post a screenshot of what you see.

This guide may be of help
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?63049-Bouquets-EPG-amp-Channel-navigation

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 02:25

...If you have configured your box to show a transmitter or satellite icon then the contents of "unknown" will show a transmitter tower icon.

Just to add to this post, enable the option that says "Show service type icons"

SkyFan

26-08-20, 09:54

Just to add to this post, enable the option that says "Show service type icons"

I read all your posts after this post and the pdf but I still don't know what buttons to press to get to the menus you mentioned.

Can you please give me step by step instructions on how to access the menu in your screenshot.

I use the “Open Magic HD Night” skin so my Grid EPG looks different than Grid EPG. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.

When watching a channel I press the down arrow then I press the green button for Satellites. A screenshot of what I see then is below:

60532

4Seven HD is exclusive to Freeview so I'm looking for that channel in all the channel lists in the screenshot above. Couldn't find it.

I also pressed the yellow button for Providers. Screenshot of providers screen is below:

60533

I went into each of the channels lists in the screenshot above but couldn't see 4SevenHD.

You said this:

Satellites (orbital position - will work). Select the Terrestrial one
Provider (waste of your time). But will be in unknown category
Bouquets (will work for you). Select the Terrestrial bouquet

I assume everything with 28.2E in my first screenshot is the orbital position you're referring to?
Bouquets (will work for you). Select the Terrestrial bouquet - What thing in my first screenshot were you referring to when you said that?

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 11:12

Q. How can I watch 4Seven HD on Terrestrial/Freeview?
A. You cannot. It closed on 22 June.

In your first screenshot, select Terrestrial services. Once you access it, the terrestrial services will be listed alphabetically. You can then select the services that work.

Note:
You are in Extended mode, press Green to go into simple mode. You will see fewer lists.

In your second screenshot, you wouldselect unknown. But this is a waste of your time.

You are better off pressing Blue to show Favourite, then selecting the Terrestrial bouquet. You have not shown a screenshot of it.

SkyFan

26-08-20, 11:44

OK I did what you said. When watching a channel I press the down arrow then I press the green button for Satellites and I'm using Simple mode. I then go into "Terrestrial - Services (TV)". It just lists HbbTV channels. No HD channels are there.

I also tried the Blue Button > Favourites > Terrestrial. But it just has the same channels as above.

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 11:45

Post a screenshot of what you see please.

ccs

26-08-20, 11:48

Daft question - your terrestrial tuner is T2, not just T ??

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 11:55

A separate question, is your TV capable of receiving Freeview HD? If so, does your TV find HD services during a scan?

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 12:25

Daft question - your terrestrial tuner is T2, not just T ??
His first post says it's DVB-T2.

@Skyfan, is your aerial pointing to Crystal Palace mast or a repeater?

SkyFan

26-08-20, 12:29

Don't know about my TV. But my VU+ Duo 2 could receive Freeview fine with a USB tuner. Aerial from my wall socket went into that tuner. I'm now putting that cable into my Tiviar tuner instead.

Screenshots of the Tiviar Tuner

60535

60536

Terrestrial Services Screenshot

60537

Favourites - Terrestrial Screenshot

60538

SkyFan

26-08-20, 12:31

His first post says it's DVB-T2.

@Skyfan, is your aerial pointing to Crystal Palace mast or a repeater?

I'm in Dumfries, Scotland. How do I find out where my aerial is pointed to?

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 12:34

Did your USB tuner on Duo2 find HD Terrestrial services?

SkyFan

26-08-20, 12:35

Did your USB tuner on Duo2 find HD Terrestrial services?

Yes it did.

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 13:02

Have you tried the USB tuner on the Tiviar? Tuners have different sensitivities.

adm

26-08-20, 14:11

I'm in Dumfries, Scotland. How do I find out where my aerial is pointed to?

So why did you post "I'm in the UK - London."?
Teresstrail TV depends on where you live and which transmitter frequencies you scan for. There is no point in scanning for a London transmitter if you live in Scotchland as the range of each transmitter is limited (maybe to as little as 30km)

Put your postcode into
http://www.wolfbane.net/cgi-bin/tvd.exe?

and press go

You will be given a list of possible transmitters with a compass bearing from you house (post code) to the transmitter. You should be able to establish in which direction (bearing) your aerial is pointing.

SkyFan

26-08-20, 19:37

Because I want ITV London, etc. My Postcode is DG1 4DJ. That page says I should use Caldbeck. Is that correct?

I installed my Sundtek USB tuner.

Setup > Tuner Config > Tuner Setup > Select Tuner E: Sundtek DVB-T2 (III).

Tuner Type: DVB-T2
Configuration Mode: Enabled
Country: UK
Region: Change to "United Kingdom, all regions Europe DVB-T/T2)". Also tried Calbeck, Cumbria.
Enable 5V for active antenna: Off
Press Green to Save.

Menu > Setup > Tuner Config > Terrestrial Scan.
Band; UHF Europe
Network Scan: No
Clear before scan: Yes
Only Free Scan: No
Restrict Search to Single ONID: No
Create Terrestrial Bouquet: Yes
Create Terrestrial.xml file: No
Tuner D: Sundtek DVB-T2 (III) (1/0) (USB) (DVB-T2)

Tried it with UK all regions as the region. HD channels didn't appear with same problems as before. Tried it with Calbeck, Cumbria and HD channels still don't appear in Favourites > Terrestrial.
However the HD channels appear in Providers > Unknown. I'm getting a picture now but there's picture breakup every minute or so on all the freeview HD channels. When I press OK on a channel to view info about the channel it says "DVB-T and HbbTV" for BBC 1 HD and BBC 2 HD.

The following channels say DVB-T and do NOT say HbbTV and haven't seen any breakup on them yet:

Channel 4 HD
Channel 5 HD
ITV HD

The following Standard Definition channels say DVB-T and do NOT say HbbTV and have a lot of breakup all the time:
Dave
Drama
Sky News
Yesterday

Above are just some examples, I haven't checked all the other channels as I'm not interested in them.

I enabled service type icons. All channels in Unknown and in Favourites > Terrestrial have a blue tower picture to the left of the channels names.

Anybody got any idea of what's going on here? When I plug the aerial directly into my box's tuner I don't get a picture on any Freeview channels as there's massive breakup and didn't get HD channels at all. When I used the Sundtek tuner I got the HD channels and the HD channels show but have break up every minute or so and the SD channels have a lot of break up.

Is there a test I can do to check that I'm able to receive freeview properly? Don't understand why not even the USB tuner isn't working properly. I used to use that tuner on my VU+ Duo 2 box in the same room.

ccs

26-08-20, 19:45

Have you installed the Sundtek control centre plugin?

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?49093-How-to-install-Sundtek-USB-tuners-using-Sundtek-Control-Center

I'm afraid you'll never get itv london on freeview if you live in Scotland.

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 19:46

There have been reshuffle of frequencies. So you may need to adjust cabling, filters, face plates.

Can you please forget the HBBTV indication. It is irrelevant.

ccs

26-08-20, 19:56

https://www.freeview.co.uk/help suggests Thornhill is your transmitter, based on a random house number.

SkyFan

26-08-20, 20:13

Yes I installed Sundtek control centre plugin. ITV London is the least of my problems! I'd be happy with just getting a picture that doesn't break up.

There have been reshuffle of frequencies. So you may need to adjust cabling, filters, face plates.

Can you be more specific? An aerial is fixed in one place on a roof. How can I possibly adjust my cabling? I've got an Aeriel wall socket which connects to the aerial in the attic which connects to the Aeriel on the roof.

adm

26-08-20, 20:26

Because I want ITV London, etc.

You can ONLY get what your local transmitter mast is transmitting. Different transmitter masts may/will be transmitting different regional programs. Each mast may only have a range of 30 to 50Km, assuming no hills or mountains in the way.

My Postcode is DG1 4DJ. That page says I should use Caldbeck. Is that correct?

Possibly yes but you do need to check the direction/bearing of your aerial. If it is pointing at, say, Dumfries South then setting Caldbeck will result in the wrong frequencies being scanned. However Caldbeck also seems to have a very limited service on "Caldbeck Scotland" (maybe something like the non-english language channel, Glaswegian etc.)

I installed my Sundtek USB tuner.

Setup > Tuner Config > Tuner Setup > Select Tuner E: Sundtek DVB-T2 (III).

Tuner Type: DVB-T2
Configuration Mode: Enabled
Country: UK
Region: Change to "United Kingdom, all regions Europe DVB-T/T2)". Also tried Calbeck, Cumbria.

Is the Calbeck setting in this section of tuning been kept up-to date or is it just a legacy setting that may be wrong? Transmitter frequencies have changed over the past year or so.

Enable 5V for active antenna: Off
Press Green to Save.

Menu > Setup > Tuner Config > Terrestrial Scan.
Band; UHF Europe
Network Scan: No
Clear before scan: Yes
Only Free Scan: No
Restrict Search to Single ONID: No
Create Terrestrial Bouquet: Yes
Create Terrestrial.xml file: No
Tuner D: Sundtek DVB-T2 (III) (1/0) (USB) (DVB-T2)

So maybe your plugin is scanning all posible frequencies and picking up signals from distant transmitters that will give you low signal levels and very poor reception. Ideally you need just to scan from your local transmitter and not just use a scatter gun approach.

Is there a test I can do to check that I'm able to receive freeview properly? Don't understand why not even the USB tuner isn't working properly. I used to use that tuner on my VU+ Duo 2 box in the same room.

Try ABM and only with your inbuilt tuner and with no splitters

Tuner Type: DVB-T2
Configuration Mode: Enabled
Country: UK
Region: Change to "United Kingdom, all regions Europe DVB-T/T2)"
Enable 5V for active antenna: Off
Press Green to Save.

menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> autobouquetmaker -> providers ->
Freeview UK =yes
Region = Calbeck England (there is a Calbeck Scotland setting but that only covers a couple of MUXs and not the full range of programs)
FTA only = yes
Create main bouquet = yes
Say no to all the other options until you test this.

then
menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> autobouquetmaker -> start scan

If this works you have something wrong in the settings or drivers that you have previously been trying to use.
If it doesn't check the direction of your aerial.

ccs

26-08-20, 22:12

Maybe time to take a look at frequency finder......

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59815-ABM-Frequency-Finder-Add-HD-channels-regions-UK-Terrestrial

adm

26-08-20, 22:15

Maybe time to take a look at frequency finder......

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59815-ABM-Frequency-Finder-Add-HD-channels-regions-UK-Terrestrial

Which doesn't give the correct results with some tuners.

adm

26-08-20, 22:46

https://www.freeview.co.uk/help suggests Thornhill is your transmitter, based on a random house number.

There are 3 possible transmitters and only Coldbeck has the full range of MUXs and the terrain between the post code and Calbeck transmitter looks good

60539

so, if the tranmitter transmits in the scotish direction for all MUX then that is the most likely.

However only the OP can tell us in which direction his aerial points. Otherwise we are only speculating on which transmitter. The wolfbane site gives the bearing to the transmitter. Aerial pointing approx SouthEast = calbeck, aerial pointing North West = Thornhill or Dumfries. Three options out of 4 only transmit on 3 MUXs rather than 6.

Edit: also check which way the aerial is orientated, Horizntal or Vertical polarised. See the PICTURE at
https://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/help-guides/freeview/what-type-of-aerial-do-i-need

Horizontal = Calbeck (England or Scotchland)
Vertical = Thornhill or Dumfries

abu baniaz

26-08-20, 23:52

Is the Calbeck setting in this section of tuning been kept up-to date or is it just a legacy setting that may be wrong? Transmitter frequencies have changed over the past year or so.

The xml file is not used for tuning, it is used for scanning. It is also not used by ABM.

Unless someone provides details/reuests a change, they stay as they are. We only list problematic/clash areas as the general one should work.

Best to set " ignore namespace subnet" to no and scan. You won't get overwrites.

ccs

27-08-20, 11:17

These are the combinations of mux's you could be getting, you should be able to work out if you're receiving from more than one transmitter...

psb1 psb2 com1 psb3 com2 com3

Caldbeck 25 28 23 30 26 29
Caldbeck Scotland 27 24 22
Dumfries South 43 46 50
Thornhill 57 60 53

When watching live tv (freeview), press ok twice and then channel up/down. You should see which CHannel is being used. (Maybe skin dependent)

SkyFan

05-10-20, 17:05

You can ONLY get what your local transmitter mast is transmitting. Different transmitter masts may/will be transmitting different regional programs. Each mast may only have a range of 30 to 50Km, assuming no hills or mountains in the way.

Possibly yes but you do need to check the direction/bearing of your aerial. If it is pointing at, say, Dumfries South then setting Caldbeck will result in the wrong frequencies being scanned. However Caldbeck also seems to have a very limited service on "Caldbeck Scotland" (maybe something like the non-english language channel, Glaswegian etc.)

Is the Calbeck setting in this section of tuning been kept up-to date or is it just a legacy setting that may be wrong? Transmitter frequencies have changed over the past year or so.

So maybe your plugin is scanning all posible frequencies and picking up signals from distant transmitters that will give you low signal levels and very poor reception. Ideally you need just to scan from your local transmitter and not just use a scatter gun approach.

Try ABM and only with your inbuilt tuner and with no splitters

Tuner Type: DVB-T2
Configuration Mode: Enabled
Country: UK
Region: Change to "United Kingdom, all regions Europe DVB-T/T2)"
Enable 5V for active antenna: Off
Press Green to Save.

menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> autobouquetmaker -> providers ->
Freeview UK =yes
Region = Calbeck England (there is a Calbeck Scotland setting but that only covers a couple of MUXs and not the full range of programs)
FTA only = yes
Create main bouquet = yes
Say no to all the other options until you test this.

then
menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> autobouquetmaker -> start scan

If this works you have something wrong in the settings or drivers that you have previously been trying to use.
If it doesn't check the direction of your aerial.

I did that.

What is the menu I'm supposed to check to find the channels after I do all that? Do I go to Favourites > Terrestrial?
I did that and still can't see BBC Four HD there. I also tried to see if Thornhill was an option but it isn't listed. So Calbeck seems to be my only option, is that correct?

Is there any way my aerial could have changed direction? I used to set the tuner to "United Kingdom, all regions Europe DVB-T/T2" and it worked then so I'm not sure why it's not working now.

How do I find out what way my aerial is pointing? I checked that link I was given and it doesn't help. I don't have a compass on me. How do I know what way is North or South?

ronand

05-10-20, 17:19

You must have some idea where N/S is? Have a look for the sun setting this evening around 7 - that will be roughly west and you should be able to figure the rest out.

The channels scanned in wont end up in your favourites unless you put them there.

Bring up your bouquet list. Press the green button (satellites). Near the top of the list you should see "Terrestrial - Services". In there will be all terrestrial services that you have scanned in

SkyFan

05-10-20, 18:26

It's really cloudy where I live at the moment so I can't see the sun. I have a flat aeriel type. I looked in Terrestrial Services and BBC Four HD isn't there.

spanner123

05-10-20, 18:32

It's really cloudy where I live at the moment so I can't see the sun. I have a flat aeriel type. I looked in Terrestrial Services and BBC Four HD isn't there.

Just look at which way your neighbours aerials are pointing.

adm

05-10-20, 18:38

I did that.

What is the menu I'm supposed to check to find the channels after I do all that? Do I go to Favourites > Terrestrial?

It will only be in Favourites if you manually put it there
Try pressing the TV button on the remote and check what is in the "Last Scanned" bouquet.

I did that and still can't see BBC Four HD there.

Do you still receive PBS America, BBC NewsHD, ForcesTV, QuestHD, CbbebiesHD? If so BBC4 HD is on the same MUX so it if you get the channels mentioned you will also get BBC4HD.

. So Calbeck seems to be my only option, is that correct?

Only you can tell us that. Surely it is simple to estimate if an aerial is generally pointing north or south and easy to see if an aerial is polorised horizontally or vertically as per the pictures in a previous post in this thread.

Is there any way my aerial could have changed direction?

Yes, but usually in the downwards direction off the roof as a result of a storm. Are you getting zero Freeview channels or just missing some?

I used to set the tuner to "United Kingdom, all regions Europe DVB-T/T2" and it worked then so I'm not sure why it's not working now.

If that is what you had that should still be the valid setting now. The MUXs on which the programs are broadcast change frequencies from time to time often as a result to clear out anything above 700MHz so that bands can be used for the mobile phone network. If the MUX broadcast frequency changes then a re-scan is needed to find them again.

How do I find out what way my aerial is pointing? I checked that link I was given and it doesn't help. I don't have a compass on me. How do I know what way is North or South?

Just go to Google maps, type in your postcode, zoom into your house. North point up on the map, south points down on the map. Go outside and look at your aerial - which way does it point?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Gillbrae+Cres,+Dumfries+DG1+4DJ/@55.0626304,-3.5836113,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x4862caf534daded1:0xbe03d 7becf9eb6a2!8m2!3d55.0627786!4d-3.5813055

ccs

05-10-20, 18:44

Thornhill doesn't appear to get bbc4 hd

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/THORNHILL

Caldbeck does....

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Caldbeck/

SkyFan

05-10-20, 19:35

I zoomed into street view on Google Maps and took a screenshot. My aerial is still mounted correctly.

60670

Ignore the attachments below. I'm referring to the images above. First image is my house. My aerial seems to be a bit weird as shown by my drawing. It's a horizontally-polarised aerial but it's got a vertical bit near the end but not on the end.

I checked the house opposite me and my neighboor and they have an aerial like my second photo and drawing. Also shown is the Google map direction meter shown when I was looking directly at the front of my house.

I assume the vertical bit is the short end and the long horizontal end indicates the direction the aerial is pointing? If so, then it seems my aerial is pointing East-South. Is that correct?

What should I do now to get Freeview working?

abu baniaz

05-10-20, 19:42

Terrestrial Scan plugin creates a Terrestrial bouquet. If you are now using ABM to create bouquets for Terrestrial services, delete the Terrestrial bouquet.

adm

05-10-20, 21:49

Both photos of the aerials are of such poor resolution it's impossible to tell if that is a picture of the back or front of your aerial and without a decent picture of the aerial the little directional icon just tells me that it is either pointing sse or nnw - so back to square one. The photo resolution is too low to show the elements onyour neighbours aerial to determine how its polarised and even with photo enhancements its impossible to determine how the reflector is polarised.

You appear to have a different design of aerial to that of your neighbour and your obsevation about a vertical element is possible just a different mounting bracket. but again you photo doesn't show this.

ccs

05-10-20, 21:57

A satellite view of your property using google maps should show you which direction your aerial is pointing.

SkyFan

05-10-20, 22:04

A satellite view of your property using google maps should show you which direction your aerial is pointing.

That WAS a satellite view from Google maps where I copied a photo from. I don't have a camera to get a better photo. If you can get a better photo from Google Maps then please try.

ronand

05-10-20, 22:05

Your house is facing NW and your aerial appears to be pointing SE. Its pointing at Caldbeck (138 degrees)

ccs

05-10-20, 22:06

... it was a street view, not a satellite view - I'd delete your address if I were you.

adm

05-10-20, 22:46

Your house is facing NW and your aerial appears to be pointing SE. Its pointing at Caldbeck (138 degrees)

If it is the house with the red car in the drive then yes, the aerial is pointing SE, its horizontally polarised and appears to be OK. I cannot see anything towards the centre of the aerial apart from the normal mounting bracket. However how old is the street view? Is the aerial still intact as the neighbours aerial appears to be failing with a chimney mounting bracket not strong enough for the length of pole being used and the pole is no longer vertical. If the poster is now seeing something different on his aerial to the photo below then maybe it has been damaged by the weather.

60672

adm

05-10-20, 22:50

... it was a street view, not a satellite view - I'd delete your address if I were you.

There was was a post code posted earlier in the thread - I then just looked for the house in the photo.

abu baniaz

05-10-20, 23:04

Which method of "scanning" do you want to use?

Enigma2 scanning
AutoBouquetsMaker plugin
Terrestrial Scan plugin

Are the other helpers willing to assist OP in the chosen method or will they post different methods?

SkyFan

06-10-20, 00:14

Which method of "scanning" do you want to use?

Enigma2 scanning
AutoBouquetsMaker plugin
Terrestrial Scan plugin

I don't mind. Terrestrial Scan doesn't seem to have an option for selecting which transmitter (such as Caldbeck) to use. Is there something I'm missing? Or do I just set it to Caldbeck, Cumbria in the Tuner Config? I did that then did a Terrestrial scan of Europe UHF/VHF on my freeview tuner.

I then pressed the Green button for Satellites and went to Terrestrial Services and all the chanels have the aerial icon. BBC Four HD and BBC Two HD aren't listed for example. I only see two HbbTV BBC TWO HD channels listed which don't have a picture. Same issue that happened before.

My aerial is polorised horizontally and is pointing SE at Caldbeck.

I was told before "Terrestrial Scan plugin creates a Terrestrial bouquet. If you are now using ABM to create bouquets for Terrestrial services, delete the Terrestrial bouquet". How do I delete it? I thought ABM only makes bouquets for the bouquets in the Favourites section? It doesn't effect what channels appear via the green button Satellites menu does it?

abu baniaz

06-10-20, 00:54

ABM makes ABM bouquets

Terrestrial scan just makes a bouquet called "Terrestrial".

They both work differently. They both do not use Terrestrial.xml file. They both do not care or use the selection in tuner configuration other than validate type of tuner.

Whichever method you use, services will be added to Lamedb.

It is no point suggestion A being given, somebody else suggests B and you do C. Please decide which method you want to use and people will help you. In my opinion, best you follow one process at a time. If that doesn't work and you have exhausted the various options for that method you then try a different process without going back to the first one.

You can delete a bouquet by highlighting it, press menu, select the delete option.

abu baniaz

06-10-20, 00:56

Please also forget HBBTV. You are confusing things and yourself by mentioning irrelevant things.

SkyFan

06-10-20, 01:07

Please tell me the Terrestrial Scan plugin method. I'll try that first.

adm

06-10-20, 01:24

I don't mind. Terrestrial Scan doesn't seem to have an option for selecting which transmitter (such as Caldbeck) to use. Is there something I'm missing? Or do I just set it to Caldbeck, Cumbria in the Tuner Config? I did that then did a Terrestrial scan of Europe UHF/VHF on my freeview tuner.

I then pressed the Green button for Satellites and went to Terrestrial Services and all the chanels have the aerial icon. BBC Four HD and BBC Two HD aren't listed for example. I only see two HbbTV BBC TWO HD channels listed which don't have a picture. Same issue that happened before.

My aerial is polorised horizontally and is pointing SE at Caldbeck.

I was told before "Terrestrial Scan plugin creates a Terrestrial bouquet. If you are now using ABM to create bouquets for Terrestrial services, delete the Terrestrial bouquet". How do I delete it? I thought ABM only makes bouquets for the bouquets in the Favourites section? It doesn't effect what channels appear via the green button Satellites menu does it?

No - the favourites bouquet is just what you put in it. The box doen't know your favoutite channels.

I use ABM to set up for both Freeview from my local transmitter and for Sky FTA

This is not the only way...... but this is what I do to get a Freeview Bouquet and a separate SKY FTA bouquet. I’m assuming that you also have satellite tuners – if not don’t do not select Sky in AutobouquetsMaker → providers

First my terrestrial tuner setup (you may have a different tuner type but the setting should be the same/similar). I have two terrestrial tuners and both are set up the same. I also have two satellite tuners.

60673

Next my settings for ABM
Menu → setup → tuners and scanning → AutobouquetsMaker → providers

My local transmitter for Freeview is Bluebell Hill – you need to set Caldbeck.
My preference is to lump all TV channels into a single list hence I don’t create sections or HD bouquets – your preference are probably different but use my settings to start with.

60674
60675

Press green to save
Then
Menu → setup → tuners and scanning → AutobouquetsMaker → Start scanning

This should result in on screen messages “Reading SKY UK” with number of services and radio channels increasing followed immediately afterwards by “Reading Freeview UK, again with services and radio channels increasing.

Now quit the menus.

Press the TV button on the remote and you should get a list of Bouquets including:

Sky UK (Sky UK all channels)
Freeview UK (All Channels)
Favourites – this will only contain what you manually put in it
Last scanned

Select the appropriate Freeview Bouquet and see if all the channels you want are in there, and working.

If you want to edit the Bouquets, or to create your own find the IP number of your box
menu → information → network → IP = 192.168.xxx.yyy

Type this number into the address bar of your Internet browser on your PC
What should appear is the Web Interface (Webif)
One of the options in the Web Interface is a Bouquet Editor

In the Bouquet Editor you can highlight your Terrestrial Bouquet and delete it. You can create a bouquet name of your own and drag drop TV channels into it, you can sort the list of TV channels by highlighting the entry and dragging it to a new position in the list etc. etc.

If sticking with the ABM way of getting the Freeview bouquets than you can experiment with the other configurable options in ABM to tailor the end result to what you want.

abu baniaz

06-10-20, 02:01

No - the favourites bouquet is just what you put in it. The box doen't know your favoutite channels.

From what I can gather, he is saying accessing bouquets by pressing the blue button when it says "Favourites". He is not referring to the bouquet called "Favourites (TV)". Otherwise he is selecting channels using the provider method. Hence his repeated references to HBBTV. Not everybody has the option to always show bouquets enabled.

abu baniaz

06-10-20, 02:06

@Skyfan,

1. Have you enabled the Service type icon?

A. Yes
B. No
C. I don't understand question
D. I don't know how to. Please explain
E. I don't want to do that
F. I will follow advice of someone else

2. Have you set he Ignore DVB-T namespace sub network to "No"

A. Yes (please provide screenshot)
B. No
C. I don't understand question
D. I don't know how to. Please explain
E. I don't want to do that
F. I will follow advice of someone else

3. Which image are you on now?

4. Is Freeview provider enabled in ABM at the moment? Do not mention what it was before, we just need to know what it is now.
A. Yes
B. No

5. Is ABM set to run automatically/regularly?
A. Yes
B. No

6. What is the Tuner that can receive aerial signal set to now? Provide a screenshot of it please. Do not mention what it was before, please state the current status.

ccs

06-10-20, 08:28

There was was a post code posted earlier in the thread - I then just looked for the house in the photo.

I was replying to @SkyFan, but your post came in before mine, I should have quoted it.

SkyFan

06-10-20, 15:56

Press the TV button on the remote and you should get a list of Bouquets including:

Sky UK (Sky UK all channels)
Freeview UK (All Channels)
Favourites – this will only contain what you manually put in it
Last scanned

Select the appropriate Freeview Bouquet and see if all the channels you want are in there, and working.

The TV button does nothing when I press it. How else do I access the correct bouquet?

When watching a channel I just pressed the down arrow, then Blue button for Favourites then entered the bottom "All channels" bouquet of the two listed identically named bouquets. The top one is for freesat and the bottom is for freeview. If that's the correct place I should be looking then I've still got the same problem as before. Don't have BBC Four HD, etc and most channels say Hbbtv on them and don't show a picture.

SkyFan

06-10-20, 16:02

ccs

06-10-20, 16:38

Q2: "Have you set the Ignore DVB-T namespace sub network to "No""

Menu/Setup/Tuners & Scanning/Miscellaneous

SkyFan

06-10-20, 17:05

ccs

06-10-20, 18:29

... if it hasn't been asked before, have you a freeview tv, and if so, what does it come up with (channel wise)??

abu baniaz

06-10-20, 18:49

OK I've done that now. I still have the same issue as before. If there's nothing else I can try with that method I'll try the Terrestrial Scan plugin method now if someone can give me instructions for that please.

Just enabling that option would have not done anything for you. The changes would have happened after you scanned.

Disable Freeview provider in ABM.Run ABM again after you do it so you no longer have ABM Freeview bouquets.

I presume you still have Terrestial scan plugin installed. Set it as pictured in this screenshot. Then run it. Go make a cup of tea it will take a while.

SkyFan

06-10-20, 19:40

Did all that however I don't have the the LCN Descriptor or Signal Quality Stabilization Time as an option.

What bouquet should I be looking at to find the freeview channels this time?

... if it hasn't been asked before, have you a freeview tv, and if so, what does it come up with (channel wise)??

Plugged the aerial cable into the Sony Bravia KD55XD8577SU TV and did a Digital scan. It says no services have been found. I've never done a scan on my TV before so I've no idea if it always had that result or not.

ronand

06-10-20, 19:43

abu baniaz

06-10-20, 19:47

Perhaps you should now flash 5.3 039.
Please ignore this post for now

adm

06-10-20, 19:50

If its BBC 4 HD that you are after (you've mentioned it several times) then it does not appear to be available in your area according to the postcode checker on the freeview site
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help

Is that because the checker thinks the transmitter is Thornhill? We have already established that the aerial is (was) pointing at Calbeck. However we have only seen the state of the aerial as it was maybe months or a year ago on Google strret view.

abu baniaz

06-10-20, 20:03

What bouquet should I be looking at to find the freeview channels this time?

If you are indirectly saying you run it with the options it had, then check the Terrestrial bouquet.

ccs

06-10-20, 20:04

CH32 is the weakest mux and includes bbc4 hd, bbc news hd, forces tv and others. Maybe the signal quality isn't good?

I'd get the tv scanning to work if I were the OP.

ronand

06-10-20, 20:08

Its getting hard to follow what is going on. Is the OP getting any channels at all or is just missing BBC 4 HD? Its not that hard to do a manual scan and create a bouquet. Is there really a need for ABM on terrestrial services - they hardly change that much.

ccs

06-10-20, 21:08

I've only ever used ABM for terrestrial, easy, even if only used (fairly) infrequently.

abu baniaz

07-10-20, 16:26

"All channels" bouquet of the two listed identically named bouquets.

These are bouquets created by ABM. To avoid teh identical names and be able to distinguish between them, enable the option in ABM that says "Add provider name to bouquets", then run ABM.

Just to re-emphasise we are not using ABM at the moment for Terrestrial/Aerial services.
I also advised you to select services using the orbital selection mode. Do not use bouquets, do not use providers. You however insist on selecting providers and bouquets/favourites.

How else do I convey that a scan produced a lot of channels but most of them say HBBTV when I try to view them and don't show a picture?

Select the terrestrial services using orbital mode. See post 19

Then say "I selected BBC One on Ch 23, 490MHz, it did not work there was a blank picture. I selected BBC One on Ch 24, 498 MHz, it kept breaking up. I selected BBC One on Ch 25 506 MHz, it worked fine".

ccs

07-10-20, 16:38

Select the terrestrial services using orbital mode. See post 19

Should be post #16.

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?63243-Freeview-Tuner-doesn-t-show-Freeview-channels&p=501836&viewfull=1#post501836

I must admit I've not come across "orbital mode" before.

SkyFan

07-10-20, 17:49

Thanks everybody for all your help. My original problem was that Freeview channels kept breaking up and I noticed the channels said HbbTV on them. It seems some idiot freeview installer screwed up the freeview splitter we have in the attic. That's been fixed and I'm no longer getting breakup on channels that say HbbTv or not but I kept posting as I wasn't getting all the channels such as a lack of BBC Four HD and BBC News HD and some people on the forum said that if my aerial transmitter is pointed at Caldbeck then I should be getting those channels.

However I contacted Freeview support today and they said this:

The Caldbeck transmitter does not broadcast the COM7 HD channel group (Which shows BBC Four HD and BBC News) as this channel group was taken off back in July of 2019.

I also did a scan on my downstairs TV which has Freeview integrated and it didn't get those channels either.

So it seems it's correct that I don't get BBC Four HD and BBC News HD.

So just to double-check, if a freeview channel such as BBC One HD says DVB-T2 HBBtV on it, it's still the correct channel I've got and it's nothing to worry about. Is that correct?

abu baniaz

07-10-20, 18:04

So just to double-check, if a freeview channel such as BBC One HD says DVB-T2 HBBtV on it, it's still the correct channel I've got and it's nothing to worry about. Is that correct?

Correct .

ccs

07-10-20, 18:27

So it seems it's correct that I don't get BBC Four HD and BBC News HD.

Looks like
https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Caldbeck/ is about 15 months out of date.

I know they're not 100% reliable, but that's crazy!

abu baniaz

07-10-20, 18:33

ccs

07-10-20, 19:02

Caldbeck Scotland only just includes parts of Dumfries ...

https://ukfree.tv/maps/tvregions/84

Caldbeck Cumbria manages the area surrounding and including parts of Dumfries ....

https://ukfree.tv/maps/tvregions/10

:confused::confused:

SkyFan

07-10-20, 19:05

ccs

07-10-20, 19:11

What's your point?
There are 2 Caldbeck transmitters (news to me until an hour ago), which one are you using?

I'm just surprised that the ukfree.tv data for Caldbeck Cumbria is 15 months out of date if that's the one you're using.

Time for me to give up on this one.

ccs

07-10-20, 19:32

There are 2 Caldbeck transmitters (news to me until an hour ago)
Not strictly true, I mentioned it in post #41 :)

SkyFan

07-10-20, 19:44

I was always using Caldbeck Cumbria.

BrokenUnusableAccount

07-10-20, 20:21

Looks like
https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Caldbeck/ is about 15 months out of date.

I know they're not 100% reliable, but that's crazy!

I think the guy who does it has a real job now.

SkyFan

09-10-20, 04:39

Now that you are out of fault finding/diagnostic mode, use ABM. There are two Caldecks, select the correct one.

Before you do so, please upload your lamedb and lamedb5 files. You will find them in /etc/enigma2. You will need to zip before you can upload them. Your lamedb files will be useful if fixes for ABM are required for your area.

The saga continues. So I watched BBC One HD on freeview for 45 minutes to check there was no breakup in the picture and there wasn't. However today, I'm getting breakup on freeview channels. It will get so bad that the picture cuts out completely on all freeview channels and gives the message "No data on Transponder. Tune failed." Then the picture will come back on in a minute or so. Seems random. Then the picture will be fine for 45 minutes or so.

I wasn't recording anything on freesat at the same time so that's not causing the problem not that I expected it would.
Breakup doesn't effect radio channels on Freeview in that the audio doesn't cut out.

Attached are the files you requested. I'm only watching freeview via channels that appear in the Green button, Terrestrial Services channel list that got there via terrestrial scan. ABM freeview is turned off.

Is there something I can do to check that my freeview signal is working properly or not instead of having to watch channels waiting until breakup occurs?

Should I try a scan via ABM now?60700

ronand

09-10-20, 07:20

Hire an installer who knows what he is at to go up the ladder.

spanner123

09-10-20, 07:52

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 09:12

Some of your services are duplicated on different frequencies. Surely you saw there are two versions of several services!

There is duplication between:
474 MHz (Ch 21) and 482 MHz (Ch 22) (BBC Two HD )
498 MHz (Ch 24) and 530 MHz (Ch 28) (ITV 3)
506 MHz (Ch 25) and 522 MHz (Ch 27) (BBC Four)

You need to establish which frequencies are the problematic ones and which are fine. I gave you example on how to phrase your text.

Then say "I selected BBC One on Ch 23, 490MHz, it did not work there was a blank picture. I selected BBC One on Ch 24, 498 MHz, it kept breaking up. I selected BBC One on Ch 25 506 MHz, it worked fine".

You can receive these frequencies:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<locations>
<terrestrial name="Sky fan aerail (Europe DVB-T/T2)" flags="5">
<transponder centre_frequency="474000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
<transponder centre_frequency="482000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
<transponder centre_frequency="490000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
<transponder centre_frequency="498000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
<transponder centre_frequency="506000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
<transponder centre_frequency="514000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
<transponder centre_frequency="522000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
<transponder centre_frequency="530000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
<transponder centre_frequency="546000000" bandwidth="0" constellation="3" code_rate_hp="0" code_rate_lp="0" guard_interval="4" transmission_mode="2" hierarchy_information="4" inversion="2" />
</terrestrial>
</locations>

adm

09-10-20, 09:52

The saga continues. So I watched BBC One HD on freeview for 45 minutes to check there was no breakup in the picture and there wasn't. However today, I'm getting breakup on freeview channels. It will get so bad that the picture cuts out completely on all freeview channels and gives the message "No data on Transponder. Tune failed." Then the picture will come back on in a minute or so. Seems random. Then the picture will be fine for 45 minutes or so.

I wasn't recording anything on freesat at the same time so that's not causing the problem not that I expected it would.
Breakup doesn't effect radio channels on Freeview in that the audio doesn't cut out.

Attached are the files you requested. I'm only watching freeview via channels that appear in the Green button, Terrestrial Services channel list that got there via terrestrial scan. ABM freeview is turned off.

Is there something I can do to check that my freeview signal is working properly or not instead of having to watch channels waiting until breakup occurs?

Should I try a scan via ABM now?60700

When you say the breakup is on all channels do you actually mean ALL channels or just the few you tried? Freeview is broadcast on typically 6 MUXs with a dozen of more TV and radio channels on each MUX. It is important to narrow down that you are having problems with ALL MUXs or just one (or two). For instance is it just HD channels or SD channels as well? Note: that there is a slight complication in that some SD channels are broadcast on a HD MUX so when checking SD channels check more than just a few..

You suggested part of your initial problem was an incorrectly fitted splitter.
How many ways are you splitting the signal from your aerial?[1]
Does your splitter have a full metal can to screen it? (a picture may help)
Does the aerial come down to a face plate and from there do connect a fly lead to your TV or box.
Do you have more than one splitter. Perhaps one in the loft to split the signal between different rooms and another behind your box to split the signal for two tuners?

As other have said one main requirement for good reception is signal strength which the box can give some indication.

However there are other causes for signal breakup including local electrical interference as a result of not using fully screened or inadequately screened cable, splitters and faceplates.

Assuming that you have chosen the signal(s) from the correct transmitter[2] it shouldn't matter how you did the scan. The terrestrial plugin or ABM will give the same signal. Just changing the scanning method will not improve a marginal signal. You will be using the same tuner(s), the same aerial and the same signal distribution components.

You may even now have the wrong aerial for your location BUT you indicate that you have had reliable working reception in the recent past and that would have required a wideband aerial. The type of aerial which should also work for you now. Now this is assuming that it hasn’t moved or been damaged since the street view photo of your house which may be anything to a year ago! What, if anything, has been done to the aerial or leads since you last had reliable working reception?

[1]
When you fit a passive splitter in a TV aerial down-lead you reduce the signal at each of the outputs

A good quality two way passive split has a typical insertion loss of 4.7dB (each output = approx 0.58 of the input voltage)
A good quality three way passive split has a typical insertion loss of 7.0dB (each output = approx 0.45 of the input voltage)
A good quality four way passive split has a typical insertion loss of 8.5dB (each output = approx 0.38 of the input voltage)

So, the signal level from the aerial was just enough for reliable reception without a splitter then inserting a passive splitter may just take the signal level below this threshold. If this is suspected, as a test, the splitter can be removed from the circuit and the box plugged directly into aerial output to see if an increase in signal level improves any problems.

[2]
With terrestrial TV via an aerial it is possible to receive signals from more than one transmitter but for most people the strongest and most reliable signal will be from their chosen transmitter (or in the vast majority of cases the transmitter chosen by the aerial installer) and from the transmitter to which the aerial is pointing. When it is possible to get signals from more than one transmitter it is important that the scan is limited to those MUX broadcast channels/frequencies from a named transmitter or that the correct signal is chosen for each MUX when a scan produces multiple choices.

adm

09-10-20, 10:04

The duplication may be down to the same transmitter providing the two services
Some MUXs have England orientated programming and some Scottish orientated programming. The signal reliability (or not) may be the same for both variants.

From
https://www.aerialsandtv.com/knowledge/main-6-mux-transmitters

Caldbeck NY 299 425, 12 miles SW of Carlisle.
MUXES 1 to 3 are transmitted at 100kW and MUXES 4 to 6 at 50kW.
Calbeck Scotland (only transmitted to the North) MUX 1 at 100kW, 2 & 3 at 50kW.

All 9 MUXs are valid for that transmitter.

ccs

09-10-20, 11:01

This is another source of details for the Caldbeck transmitter....

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 13:08

As some people continue to post incorrect details with regards to the way Enigma2/plugin "scanning" works, I shall leave you in their care.

adm

09-10-20, 14:37

As some people continue to post incorrect details with regards to the way Enigma2/plugin "scanning" works, I shall leave you in their care.

As a matter of interest what information do you believe is incorrect?

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 15:20

"......It shouldn't matter how you did the scan."

Joe_90

09-10-20, 15:23

@adm - there's a difference to how ABM works and the various "scanning" options. When you choose a particular transmitter option in ABM it tunes just those multiplexes (UHF channel frequencies) in the xml file associated with the transmitter. Other scanning options may include extra UHF channels, resulting in reception from different transmitters or marginal reception from the same transmitter intended to be beamed to a different area. So, the user may end up with the same multiplex (on different UHF channels) available to view. The signal level/quality on one of those multiplexes may be marginal and lead to the issues @SkyFan is experiencing. Your advice to ensure that joins or splitters are avoided is very appropriate in this case. What the OP really needs to do is ensure that his aerial is appropriate to the frequencies in use (channel group A) and is pointed at the relevant transmitter and that the cabling is sound. Ideally, he should be using ABM to receive the appropriate/relevant multiplexes from this single transmitter (providing, of course, that the ABM xml file contains the correct frequencies for those multiplexes). In that way he can remove ambiguities and can finally put this long thread to rest.

In the Irish Freeview environment (it's branded Saorview), we have a very limited service - just two multiplexes, but there are over sixty entries for each of the two multiplexes in the ABM providers file to identify every main and relay transmitter in the network, so that any user who knows his local transmitter can choose it properly.

Where I live I can physically eyeball my local transmitter and it's easy to select it by name in ABM. However, if I choose to scan all UHF channels my receiver will pick up another transmitter (which uses lower channel numbers) and store those in preference. This results in a less than optimal signal level, so the ABM method works much better for me in this instance.

I think that abu is trying to get the OP into a position where he can receive the best set of multiplexes. It would probably help if there was an unambiguous set of multiplex information from the specific transmitter that the OP is receiving from. As you have said also, the OP needs to identify and remove from the scanning process any duplicate weak multiplexes. There lies the issue...

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 15:30

adm

09-10-20, 15:52

ABM reads tables, it doesn't scan. ABM XML file for UK terrestrial lists
1. Frequency to "read" from,
2. HD muxes
3. overrides for problematic areas.

The ABM XML is different to the Enigma2 XML file.

The rest of advice about splitters, casing, signal drop are all excellent pieces of information.

Sorry about introducing confusion but I was trying to convey was that if Skyfan had used the terrestrial plugin in the way suggested and had selected the most appropriate (strongest?) signal then changing to ABM or any other method was unlikely to change anything - except we would all be guessing again about the true situation is.

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 16:12

They all work differently. Terrestrial scan doesn't give choice, it only uses the ones it can receive and strongest ones. This is why I suggested it first. The data imported by ABM may not be correct. I have mentioned this many times that ABM reads, it does not scan.

Important thing is we are all trying to help him. Long may it continue. IMO, best thing is we continue the diagnostic path in situ instead of introducing different ones and confusing matters. The are many variables. In some cases, some people are easier to confuse than others! I am not suggesting it applies in this case.

SkyFan

09-10-20, 17:51

I have now done an ABM scan via Caldbeck England then did Blue button for Favourites > Terrestrial. There are no channel duplicates there. Each channel is only listed once. Below are a list of results for all the frequencies. I haven't looked at all the channels, just enough to see the results for all the different frequencies. Underlined are frequencies that display a picture without any breakup.

474 Mhz: Channel 4 HD, BBC Two HD, ITV HD, CBBC HD have has no picture
482 Mhz: BBC 1 HD, Channel 5 HD has no picture.
490 Mhz: Quest, QVC, More 4, Drama, 5 USA, CCXTV has no picture.
498 Mhz: ITV 4 has breakup.
506 Mhz: BBC Parliament is working fine.
514 Mhz: Sky Arts, Really, Dave is working fine.
522 Mhz: BBC News, CBBC has breakup
530 Mhz: ITV 2, ITV 3, E4, Film 4 are working fine.
546 Mhz: RT, Al-Jazeera, Ideal World, Yesterday is working fine.

What should I do now to get all the channels without breakup or loss of picture?

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 17:59

ABM creates ABM bouquets, it does not touch non-abm bouquets. Why are you checking the bouquets created by Terrestrial scan plugin? You won't even see duplicates in bouquets created by either plugin.

I am willing to help if you can do only as requested an not jump between different methods.

SkyFan

09-10-20, 18:25

It's really confusing with bouquets, Channel lists, Orbital mode, etc. I thought I was checking the ABM bouquet. Please tell me precisely how to check the ABM bouquet. If I go to Blue button for Favourites > Sky Fan. I can only see a bouquet for freesat which is my custom list of channels for freesat.

There's nothing anywhere via Blue button for Favourites which says which of the channel lists are for ABM.

BrokenUnusableAccount

09-10-20, 18:33

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 18:47

There's nothing anywhere via Blue button for Favourites which says which of the channel lists are for ABM.

I suggested that you add the provider prefix in ABM config menu. Did you do that? You then have to run ABM for changes to take effect. Post a screenshot of what you see in your bouquet list.

SkyFan

09-10-20, 19:06

Sorry I missed that from before. I've done it now. Here's the screenshots:
60710
60711
60712

Which channel list from the above should I go into?

ccs

09-10-20, 19:07

Here's another link which might tell you what you should get on Caldbeck Cumbria.

It gives details of which services are on which mux......

https://www.terrestrialtv.uk/dtt.php?reg=UK.E.BOR.CAL&col=LNTMHC

Edit: According to the link above, "BBC Parliament is working fine" and "CBBC has breakup" are on the same multiplex, PSB1.

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 19:24

abu baniaz

09-10-20, 19:33

SkyFan

10-10-20, 00:13

On the pictures you posted, all the ones that start with "Freeview UK" and "Sky UK" are the ABM bouquets.
In your picture, the one that just says "Terrestrial" is the one created by Terrestarial scan plugin.

I checked the Freeview UK All Channels bouquet. Below are the results. Underlined channels are displaying a picture without issues. I haven't watched them for a long time to test them, it was just a quick check:

474 Mhz: No channel uses this frequency. I checked all the channels.
482 Mhz: Channel 4 HD has no picture.
490 Mhz: Quest has no picture.
498 Mhz: ITV 4 has no picture.
506 Mhz: BBC Parliament is working.
514 Mhz: Sky Arts has no picture.
522 Mhz: BBC News has no picture
530 Mhz: ITV 2 is working fine.
546 Mhz: BBC 1 HD has no picture.

ccs

10-10-20, 10:08

I'm totally losing the plot here, last time you said "482 Mhz: BBC 1 HD, Channel 5 HD has no picture", now you say "546 Mhz: BBC 1 HD has no picture"

adm

10-10-20, 10:32

I'm totally losing the plot here, last time you said "482 Mhz: BBC 1 HD, Channel 5 HD has no picture", now you say "546 Mhz: BBC 1 HD has no picture"

Possibly a marginal signal and what Skfan is seeing is a change of signal level depending on time of day/weather. Skyfan has indicated a perfectly watchable picture for a long period of time and then the next day a total picture breakup. Digital TV doesn't degrade in a nice soft way - it is all or nothing and sometimes very little makes the difference with a marginal signal level.

adm

10-10-20, 10:50

I checked the Freeview UK All Channels bouquet. Below are the results. Underlined channels are displaying a picture without issues. I haven't watched them for a long time to test them, it was just a quick check:

474 Mhz: No channel uses this frequency. I checked all the channels.
482 Mhz: Channel 4 HD has no picture.
490 Mhz: Quest has no picture.
498 Mhz: ITV 4 has no picture.
506 Mhz: BBC Parliament is working.
514 Mhz: Sky Arts has no picture.
522 Mhz: BBC News has no picture
530 Mhz: ITV 2 is working fine.
546 Mhz: BBC 1 HD has no picture.

You appear to be checking the correct frequencies (there is one Web source of data that does disagree with one frequency BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR CURRENT PROBLEM so lets not go there for a while - and once you have decent reception this descrepency will sort itself out)

Can you now go
Menu -> Setup -> Turners and Scanning -> Signal Finder

Tuner = your teresstrial tuner that has your aerial connected to it (it probably should have T or T2 in its name)
Tune = Predefined transponder
Transponder = 474Mhz (Channel 21)

Note: the < and > buttons of the remote changed the highlighted options for tuner, Tune and Transponder

Write down the SNR figure and see if the lock box is ticked

While highlighting the transponder increment the freq/channel number and again write down the SNR and lock indicator

Repeat up to channel 30 (you don't need to fgo any further as Calbeck doesn't use anything above this freaquency/broadcast channel)

DO NOT press the Green or Yellow buttons while in the Signal Finder page for ths test.

ccs

10-10-20, 10:54

Possibly a marginal signal and what Skfan is seeing is a change of signal level depending on time of day/weather. Skyfan has indicated a perfectly watchable picture for a long period of time and then the next day a total picture breakup. Digital TV doesn't degrade in a nice soft way - it is all or nothing and sometimes very little makes the difference with a marginal signal level.

546 Mhz: BBC 1 HD has no picture.

.... 546 Mhz is a valid mux (CH30/Com6) on Caldbeck Cumbria, BBC1 HD doesn't transmit on that frequency. Yesterday, for example, does use that frequency.

I'd get the tv tuned into freeview first if I were Skyfan. If it's an aerial/leads/splitters/connectors problem, that would confirm it.

SkyFan

10-10-20, 18:34

You appear to be checking the correct frequencies (there is one Web source of data that does disagree with one frequency BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR CURRENT PROBLEM so lets not go there for a while - and once you have decent reception this descrepency will sort itself out)

Can you now go
Menu -> Setup -> Turners and Scanning -> Signal Finder

Tuner = your teresstrial tuner that has your aerial connected to it (it probably should have T or T2 in its name)
Tune = Predefined transponder
Transponder = 474Mhz (Channel 21)

Note: the < and > buttons of the remote changed the highlighted options for tuner, Tune and Transponder

Write down the SNR figure and see if the lock box is ticked

While highlighting the transponder increment the freq/channel number and again write down the SNR and lock indicator

Repeat up to channel 30 (you don't need to fgo any further as Calbeck doesn't use anything above this freaquency/broadcast channel)

DO NOT press the Green or Yellow buttons while in the Signal Finder page for ths test.

474 Mhz: 0%. Lock unticked.
482 Mhz: 0%. Lock unticked
490 Mhz: 45%. Lock ticked
498 Mhz: Jumps constantly between 0% and 45%. When on 45% lock is ticked.
506 Mhz: 100%. Lock ticked
514 Mhz: 45%. Lock ticked
522 Mhz: 0%. Lock unticked
530 Mhz: Jumps constantly between 45% and 100% every few seconds or so. Lock is ticked
546 Mhz: 100%. Lock is ticked

My Sony Bravia KD55XD8577SUTV that I bought in 2016 for £1,100 found channels after updating the firmware but no channels display a picture and instead say “no signal please check your antenna connection”. I instead took a crappy TV from downstairs and connected it to the same aerial in my room and that TV displayed a picture on all freeview channels without issues after doing a scan. These are the options I selected on that TV for doing the scan:
Primary Region: England
Secondary Region: Borders
Tertiary Region: Any

So I don’t understand why Freeview works on that TV but not on my Tiviar Alpha+ box?

ccs

10-10-20, 19:17

adm

10-10-20, 19:33

So I don’t understand why Freeview works on that TV but not on my Tiviar Alpha+ box?

I'm not sure from your description above if you plugged your "crappy" TV into the SAME lead that was previously connected to you Tiviar box or your Sony TV. If it was a different lead from your aerial to a different room then possibly a problem in your wiring distrubution which could be
i) Damaged lead
ii) Water in the lead if run outside and/or with a join in the lead outside the house.
iii) Dodgy connecor at the end of the lead or a dodgy connection in a faceplate.

Otherwise if it was the same lead - dodgy aerial connecting lead? (probably just the connector at the end of the lead)? Just re-plugging the lead into another device may have made what is a loose connection sound again - for a short while until you move it again. Is the connection on the end of your aerial cable a molded plug or a separate connector?

The fact that your Tiviar box and your Sony TV have the same problems suggest the problem is external to both your box and TV.

http://www.megalithia.com/elect/bellinglee/index.html

Is the aerial connector a tight fit into the connector on the back of your box or Sony TV or it a bit sloppy?

SkyFan

10-10-20, 19:36

Your sony tv has 2 terrestrial tuners, one analogue, and one digital, as far as I can tell (could be wrong the spec is very ambiguous.)

There's a button on the remote to switch between analogue and digital if I've got the tuner bit wrong.

There's only 1 port on the TV for an aerial cable (coaxial) cable which is the same cable I put into my Tiviar Alpha+ box. There's also 2 ports for satellite cables. I selected the Digital Scan option on my TV instead of Analogue because there is no analogue any more, freeview is digital isnt' it?. It found channels but none of them display a picture. The digital/analog button my remote for my TV does nothing. Don't care that much as I don't use my TV for freeview. Just want to get freeview working for my freesat boxes.

adm

10-10-20, 19:40

There's only 1 port on the TV for an aerial cable (coaxial) cable which is the same cable I put into my Tiviar Alpha+ box. There's also 2 ports for satellite cables. I selected the Digital Scan option on my TV instead of Analogue because there is no analogue any more, freeview is digital isnt' it?. It found channels but none of them display a picture. The digital/analog button my remote for my TV does nothing. Don't care that much as I don't use my TV for freeview. Just want to get freeview working for my freesat boxes.

Forget analogue TV. It is long dead in the UK for broadvcast TV. Freeview is digital

SkyFan

10-10-20, 19:46

I'm not sure from your description above if you plugged your "crappy" TV into the SAME lead that was previously connected to you Tiviar box or your Sony TV. If it was a different lead from your aerial to a different room then possibly a problem in your wiring distrubution which could be
i) Damaged lead
ii) Water in the lead if run outside and/or with a join in the lead outside the house.
iii) Dodgy connecor at the end of the lead or a dodgy connection in a faceplate.

Otherwise if it was the same lead - dodgy aerial connecting lead? (probably just the connector at the end of the lead)? Just re-plugging the lead into another device may have made what is a loose connection sound again - for a short while until you move it again. Is the connection on the end of your aerial cable a molded plug or a separate connector?

The fact that your Tiviar box and your Sony TV have the same problems suggest the problem is external to both your box and TV.

http://www.megalithia.com/elect/bellinglee/index.html

Is the aerial connector a tight fit into the connector on the back of your box or Sony TV or it a bit sloppy?

I have an aerial wall socket. I then use a coaxial cable plugged into that and the other end goes into my sat box.

There's nothing that could go wrong with the cable itself as it's a molded cable. Here is the cable I use: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Mountain-Aerial-Coaxial-Connectors/dp/B073VNQCGY/ref=pd_lpo_23_t_0/260-3752441-7189044?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B073VNQCGY&pd_rd_r=ec0a69d9-aff7-4b1a-8d67-7bc47b8a03d7&pd_rd_w=yfqxr&pd_rd_wg=ME0oC&pf_rd_p=7b8e3b03-1439-4489-abd4-4a138cf4eca6&pf_rd_r=A7G3YW34HHVJQ1396DA1&psc=1&refRID=A7G3YW34HHVJQ1396DA1

Yes I used that same cable from the same aerial wall socket to connect to my crappy TV as I did to my Tiviar or big TV. The crappy TV displays all freeview channels fine, the big TV won't display any channels. The Tiviar box doesn't display the channels correctly. Some have no picture and some have breakup.

For the data I previously submitted with the frequencies and locked info, is there something else I need to do now to choose the correct frequency to get freeview working on my sat box? Did that info help at all?

I don't understand why I can get all the freeview channels to display fine on my crappy TV but not on my freesat box?

adm

10-10-20, 20:36

I have an aerial wall socket. I then use a coaxial cable plugged into that and the other end goes into my sat box.

There's nothing that could go wrong with the cable itself as it's a molded cable. Here is the cable I use: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Mountain-Aerial-Coaxial-Connectors/dp/B073VNQCGY/ref=pd_lpo_23_t_0/260-3752441-7189044?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B073VNQCGY&pd_rd_r=ec0a69d9-aff7-4b1a-8d67-7bc47b8a03d7&pd_rd_w=yfqxr&pd_rd_wg=ME0oC&pf_rd_p=7b8e3b03-1439-4489-abd4-4a138cf4eca6&pf_rd_r=A7G3YW34HHVJQ1396DA1&psc=1&refRID=A7G3YW34HHVJQ1396DA1

Yes I used that same cable from the same aerial wall socket to connect to my crappy TV as I did to my Tiviar or big TV. The crappy TV displays all freeview channels fine, the big TV won't display any channels. The Tiviar box doesn't display the channels correctly. Some have no picture and some have breakup.

For the data I previously submitted with the frequencies and locked info, is there something else I need to do now to choose the correct frequency to get freeview working on my sat box? Did that info help at all?

I don't understand why I can get all the freeview channels to display fine on my crappy TV but not on my freesat box?

I'm at a loss to explain UNLESS your aerial is not pointing at Calbeck

Go back to the

menu -> setup -> tuners and scanning -> signal finder

and repeat and note down your previos tests but for :

618 MHz ch39 --- Thornhill
626 MHz ch40 --- Dumfries south

642 MHz ch42 --- Thornhill
650 MHz ch43 --- Dumfries south

666 MHz ch45 --- Thornhill
674 MHz ch46 --- Dumfries south

These other two transmitters are unlikely because we have established, albeit from what maybe very old streetview data, that the earial is horizontally polarised an pointing SE and both Thornhill and Dumfries South are vertically polarised and in the oposite direction, although that will not stop a signal from being recieved as nearby transmitters can often be received on "a piece of wet string" :)

SkyFan

10-10-20, 20:51

Do I just do the same test as in this post? https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?63243-Freeview-Tuner-doesn-t-show-Freeview-channels&p=503571&viewfull=1#post503571

adm

10-10-20, 22:07

Do I just do the same test as in this post? https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?63243-Freeview-Tuner-doesn-t-show-Freeview-channels&p=503571&viewfull=1#post503571

Yes .

adm

10-10-20, 23:06

SkyFan

12-10-20, 03:39

Skyfan

Just a random thought
You say that your crappy TV works on your previous unresonsive aerial connection
Was you crappy TV previously connected to the aerial elsewhere AND could the act of disconnecting the crappy TV and leaving the other room's aerial connection open circuit have made your problem connection work? Have you tried your Sony and Tiviar box back on the problematic connection with the crappy TV still disconnected from its previous aerial outlet? Disconecting a 75 ohm load (the crappy TV) may have increased the signal level on other splitter outlets, although an unterminated coax cable may result in other problems.

I'll give it a try at a later time when my parents are away.

Here's the other test results you asked for:

618 Mhz: 0% unlocked Thornhill
626 Mhz: 0% unlocked Dumfries South

642 Mhz: 0% unlocked Thornhill
650 Mhz: 0% unlocked Dumfries South

666 Mhz: 0% unlocked Thornhill
674 Mhz: 0% unlocked Dumfries South

Think I'm screwed with Freeview as we can't seem to get it working. Unless there's any other suggestions?

adm

12-10-20, 20:39

Think I'm screwed with Freeview as we can't seem to get it working. Unless there's any other suggestions?

I cannot see why if one device can give you reliable Freeview channels two others on the same aerial connector cannot do the same. The problem appears to be a lack of signal from the selected (Calbeck) transmitter to which your aerial appears to be pointing.

As I posted earlier, I widely speculated that you may have changed the signal level on the cable by removing a device (crappy TV) from another aerial outlet. You need to connect you box and/or Sony TV with the same cable configuration (the other room has nothing connected to the aerial)

How is the signal from your aerial distributed around the house? From what you have previously written possibly there is a passive splitter in the loft but how many outputs does it have, and how many are used? Can you provide an on-line picture of the type of splitter you have?

If the aerial lead is split to feed two or more rooms has the connecting coax cable been joined in any way along its length? A mismatched coax cable joined in an inappropriate way or a coax cable that has been crushed can behave in very unexpected ways.

While you may be pointing to a different transmitter from the obvious and recommended I cannot fathom which one it may be but if you perform the tests again in post number 118 and starting at
Transponder = 474Mhz (Channel 21) and then incrementing the channel number up to Channel 60

Note down only the channel numbers that give any indication on the SNR bar.

Have you tried taking your box down to the aerial outlet from where you previously had the “crappy” TV connected?

One other possibility is local electrical interference killing the signal but again if one TV can display Freeview channels why not the others? As a test you could turn off any nearby electrical equipment while testing for Freeview reception. In some instances wall-wart type power supplies have been known to spew out lots of electrical interference.

My gut feeling is that you problem is external to your box.