Zgemma H7S with OpenVIX - Inefficient usage of tuners.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

My Zgemma H7S is running OpenVIX 5.3.026 (Release).

Is there any way I can have it that my recordings start 2 minutes early and end 3 minutes late and recording two programs from the same TV channel that occur immediately one after another does not tie up two tuners?

For instance if both TV programs are on a channel that's only available on satellite it should at no point need to force both satelllite tuners to tune to that channel and interrupt me watching something else on another satellite channel - yet it does.

[abu baniaz]

It should only use another tuner if it needs it. Can you provide details about the service (channel) you were recording on and timings of the events (programs). These should be listed in timers.xml located in /etc/enigma2

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Okay, I had a closer look at what seems to be going on.

It seems like I can set an autotimer to record all of some favourite program from, either of say 5STAR (Freeview) or 5STAR (Freesat).
But this is converted to single event timers at some point before it's time to make the recordings, and these single event timers seem to only specify one of the two possible channels to record from.

Not only that but it seems that if two editions of the program are shown one after another the single event timers (which overlap due being set to add 3 minutes pre record time and 2 minutes post record time) may end up one as 5STAR (Freeview) and the other as 5STAR (Freesat).

Is there any way to have it be more flexible, like choosing at record time whichever type of tuner is free?

(As an aside, I actually only have one satellite tuner connected to the dish at present).

[abu baniaz]

5 star on satellite is not the same service as 5 star on terrestrial. Enigma2 does things based on service references, these include the namespace which indicates the service type.

There is a function called alternatives, but that kicks in if no free tuner is available. So youc an make 5 star on terrestrial be the alternative of 5 star on satellite. If a satellite tuner is not available, it will try to use the alternative. I think that is how it works. Our experts with alternatves are Judge and Rob.

In the interim, you can use internal loop through for your satellite tuners. It is not as good as having an independent connection, but you will have more services available on the same quadrant of the satellite spectrum. An LNB has high, low, vertical, horizontal planes.

An aside, I enable service type icons to help distinguish between the services.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Yes, I used an alternatives function in the autotimer to say it can use the alternatives '5STAR (Freeview)' or '5STAR (Freesat)' to record any 'some favourite program' shows it finds.

However it seems to create ordinary single event timers well ahead of the time the recording is scheduled, and those are created with just one of the 5STAR services in them so no choice seems to be available at the time the recording starts, it's decided hours, maybe even days before which it will use.

Do I misunderstand what's happening?

Is there a different alternatives function somewhere that works in a different way?

Should I ask about this in a different section maybe?

[birdman]

However it seems to create ordinary single event timers well ahead of the time the recording is scheduled, and those are created with just one of the 5STAR services in them so no choice seems to be available at the time the recording starts, it's decided hours, maybe even days before which it will use.

Do I misunderstand what's happening?No, you are not misunderstanding.
The AutoTimer code just sets a Timer. When it does so it needs to know that there will be a free tuner (no point in setting a timer that you know cannot record). So it needs to allocate a tuner to the recording. This allocation is then part of the conflict check for every other timer that gets set up.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

No, you are not misunderstanding.
The AutoTimer code just sets a Timer. When it does so it needs to know that there will be a free tuner

Disappointing.
It could wait and see which tuner is not being used to watch live TV at the time.


(no point in setting a timer that you know cannot record).
I guess. But the situation might change. I might disable some other timer.


So it needs to allocate a tuner to the recording. This allocation is then part of the conflict check for every other timer that gets set up.
I guess this way you are at least guaranteed to be warned of conflicts between timers.

Thanks.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

5 star on satellite is not the same service as 5 star on terrestrial. Enigma2 does things based on service references, these include the namespace which indicates the service type.

There is a function called alternatives, but that kicks in if no free tuner is available. So you can make 5 star on terrestrial be the alternative of 5 star on satellite. If a satellite tuner is not available, it will try to use the alternative. I think that is how it works. Our experts with alternatves are Judge and Rob.

In the interim, you can use internal loop through for your satellite tuners.

I can't work out how to configure it that way.

Later: Do I use "Equal to"?


It is not as good as having an independent connection, but you will have more services available on the same quadrant of the satellite spectrum. An LNB has high, low, vertical, horizontal planes.

An aside, I enable service type icons to help distinguish between the services.


I just enabled service type icons but everything looks exactly the same.

No I need to enable them in several places perhaps?

Maybe my skin isn't compatible with them?

[abu baniaz]

If your signal wire is in tuner a,
you set tuner A as: simple, single, 28.2
you set tuner B as:

Configuration: loop from from
Connected to tuner A

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

If your signal wire is in tuner a,
you set tuner A as: simple, single, 28.2
you set tuner B as:

Configuration: loop from from
Connected to tuner A

No such option exists.

[Andy_Hazza]

What is your current setup? Twin satellite cable from the dish & a single coax feed from the arial?


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[BrianTheTechieSnail]

What is your current setup? Twin satellite cable from the dish & a single coax feed from the arial?

Yes but one cable from the satellite is in use for something else at the moment.
I may be able to use both for the H7S in the future.

[abu baniaz]

Are we on the same page?
I am working on the deduction/conclusion that you have two satellite tuners with only one signal wire attached to the dish and receiver. I went by "both satelllite tuners" in post 1, and "As an aside, I actually only have one satellite tuner connected to the dish at present" in post 3.

If I have deduced the wrong thing, my apologies. Please clarify what you have to avoid confusion.

Please post a screenshot of your devices page.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Yes, I used an alternatives function in the autotimer to say it can use the alternatives '5STAR (Freeview)' or '5STAR (Freesat)' to record any 'some favourite program' shows it finds.

However it seems to create ordinary single event timers well ahead of the time the recording is scheduled, and those are created with just one of the 5STAR services in them so no choice seems to be available at the time the recording starts, it's decided hours, maybe even days before which it will use.

Further question following on from that.

When do the autotimers get converted to a series of single event timers?

If it doesn't already, can I make that happen quite frequently so that I can catch and record programs from channels that only seem to have Now and Next EPG on this box (like CNBC HD)?

[abu baniaz]

Best you setup EPG acquisition. There are several methods, simplest method will be CrossEPG downloader

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Are we on the same page?
I am working on the deduction/conclusion that you have two satellite tuners with only one signal wire attached to the dish and receiver. I went by "both satelllite tuners" in post 1, and "As an aside, I actually only have one satellite tuner connected to the dish at present" in post 3.

If I have deduced the wrong thing, my apologies. Please clarify what you have to avoid confusion.

Please post a screenshot of your devices page.

I have that page, though not 100% identical, but none of the available configuration options mention loop or loopthrough.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Further question following on from that.

When do the autotimers get converted to a series of single event timers?

If it doesn't already, can I make that happen quite frequently so that I can catch and record programs from channels that only seem to have Now and Next EPG on this box (like CNBC HD)?

I tried CrossEPG. It was an epic disaster.
Took me loads of fiddling about to get the box working again.

WTF doesn't restoring a ViX backup remove plug-ins that weren't installed when the backup was made??
It installs ones that were installed, just doesn't remove ones that were not installed.

Something is getting EPGs for most channels so OpenVIX clearly has something in it by default that does that function, but what is it?

[adm]

Further question following on from that.

When do the autotimers get converted to a series of single event timers?

If the program is in the EPG at the time that you create the autotimer then the timers get created minutes afterwards.
Otherwise, Menu -> Autotimer > Menu (again) -> (6) Setup from the pop up menu that appears. Each selected option has a short discription that may help understanding the options.

[abu baniaz]

I tried CrossEPG. It was an epic disaster.
Took me loads of fiddling about to get the box working again.

WTF doesn't restoring a ViX backup remove plug-ins that weren't installed when the backup was made??
It installs ones that were installed, just doesn't remove ones that were not installed.

Something is getting EPGs for most channels so OpenVIX clearly has something in it by default that does that function, but what is it?
There are two backup restores, one is a settings restore, one is a plugin restore.

A settings restore can be applied even though you do not have the plugin installed. All it does is copy the settings file among other files.

A plugin restore is a plugin re-installation based on a list of what is saved in the backup file of what you installed. Some plugins are pre-installed in the image so you don't get the option.

There are several EPG readers. Freesat and now/next are enabled by default.

EDIT:
Applying a setting backup does not uninstall plugins. Best to flash image again and apply the backup.

[abu baniaz]

I have that page, though not 100% identical, but none of the available configuration options mention loop or loopthrough.

There are two routes from here, I can guess what you are seeing and draw the wrong conclusion. Or you can post what you actually see. I sense the frustration, lets get through this by providing as much information as possible so others can hep you.

Link to getting screenshots in my signature if you need it

[birdman]

When do the autotimers get converted to a series of single event timers?Pedantically - never.
AutoTimers always stay as AutoTimers (until you delete them).
From time to (configurable) time the AutoTimer process runs and for each AutoTimer it finds at of the entries in the EPG that match it. If you don't currently have a Timer set for that (and Disabled Timers are still set Timers in this respect) then it will add a Timer (which will run clash checks).
The AutoTimer is unchanged by this action (unless you have one set with a "number of times to record" countdown option).
...can I make that happen quite frequently...Yes. Hence the (configurable) above.
It's somewhere in the menus.

In the AutoTimer list press Menu, then "6 Setup" and there are two poll options near the top.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

There are two routes from here, I can guess what you are seeing and draw the wrong conclusion. Or you can post what you actually see. I sense the frustration, lets get through this by providing as much information as possible so others can hep you.

Link to getting screenshots in my signature if you need it

Good grief.

I'm really longing to see HTF you think you're going to tell if that option is present from one screenshot showing, obviously, some other option.

60086

[abu baniaz]

Pressing right/left does not change it to anything else other than disabled?

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Pressing right/left does not change it to anything else other than disabled?

Yes but, like I already said, none of them mention loop or loopthrough.

[Andy_Hazza]

Yes but, like I already said, none of them mention loop or loopthrough.

Some receivers don’t have the loopthrough option. My SF8008 also doesn’t have that option.


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[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Some receivers don’t have the loopthrough option. My SF8008 also doesn’t have that option.


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On reflection my guess is it depends on the tuner module.

abu baniaz has NIM 45308 FBC tuners which support internal loopthrough.

I have dual Si2169D tuners and I guess they don't support internal loopthrough.

[abu baniaz]

Can you check if this file is present on your receiver please?

/proc/stb/frontend/1/rf_switch

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Can you check if this file is present on your receiver please?

/proc/stb/frontend/1/rf_switch

Not much there at all.

login as: root
root@zgemmah7s.lan's password:
root@zgemmah7:~# cd /proc/stb/frontend
root@zgemmah7:/proc/stb/frontend# ls -lR
.:
dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Apr 27 23:50 0

./0:
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Apr 27 23:50 static_current_limiting
-r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 Apr 27 23:50 static_current_limiting_choices
root@zgemmah7:/proc/stb/frontend#

[abu baniaz]

Then your receiver is not capable of using internal loop through. Please disregard my earlier comment about loop through. Sorry.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Then your receiver is not capable of using internal loop through. Please disregard my earlier comment about loop through. Sorry.

No problem.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Further question following on from that.

When do the autotimers get converted to a series of single event timers?

If it doesn't already, can I make that happen quite frequently so that I can catch and record programs from channels that only seem to have Now and Next EPG on this box (like CNBC HD)?

Further to that, most stations have full EPG, not sure where it's getting it from but it is getting it.

Is there any way I can tell OpenVIX to, for instance, use the EPG from CNN for CNN HD ?
The box seems to find a full EPG for CNN but only Now and Next for CNN HD.
Same for CNBC and CNBC HD.

[abu baniaz]

Post a screenshot of your EPG settings please.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Post a screenshot of your EPG settings please.

This one?
60099

How is it supposed to be working?
I find my tuners are tied up a lot of the time doing something I think may be EPG related.
Is that correct?
Or is it supposed to be able to fetch all the EPG stuff from the Internet?
In the many screen of settings related to EPG there is stuff that looks like it probably fetches info from the internet but there is no information on which stuff should be enabled and which should not.

[abu baniaz]

You have changed a few of the settings from the default. My one is as attached.

In answer to your question about where the EPG is coming from, it is using the Freesat EPG reader. The EPG is absorbed while you watch from the service. It won't use a tuner unless you set up a different plugin/process to do so.

There are several ways to get EPG, some involving plugins. You have not said what you have set or are trying. I would suggest you try your settings as I have (apart from keep EPG value). Disable any other plugins for EPG you have set( EPG Importer, EPG Refresh, CrossEPG). Then select/view/zap/tune to/watch the IEPG channel on 11778 for 120 seconds. That should get you EPG from the signal stream for roughly a week for all 28.2 services.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

You have changed a few of the settings from the default. My one is as attached.

In answer to your question about where the EPG is coming from, it is using the Freesat EPG reader. The EPG is absorbed while you watch from the service. It won't use a tuner unless you set up a different plugin/process to do so.

There are several ways to get EPG, some involving plugins. You have not said what you have set or are trying. I would suggest you try your settings as I have (apart from keep EPG value). Disable any other plugins for EPG you have set( EPG Importer, EPG Refresh, CrossEPG). Then select/view/zap/tune to/watch the IEPG channel on 11778 for 120 seconds. That should get you EPG from the signal stream for roughly a week for all 28.2 services.

Why no automatic refresh or automatic save?

Will the Freeview channels get their EPG from their Freesat equivalents?

The channels I originally wanted to add EPG for are CNN HD and CNBC HD both of which are not part of Freesat but which could easily be faked by copying from their Freesat non HD versions.

[abu baniaz]

There is a process called Aliasing for EPG, this uses EPG of one service for another. It is used by CrossEPG and also Kiddac's plugins. I don't know if process can be done in Enigma2 as a standalone process.

My previous post was with regards to 28.2 EPG. The Freeview EPG will be absorbed when you watch a Freeview service. We can automate the process afterwards, but let's get you EPG properly first.

The refresh/load from EPG dat probably hits the EPG data corruption bug. This is why most people do not enable them.

[Andy_Hazza]

Why no automatic refresh or automatic save?

Will the Freeview channels get their EPG from their Freesat equivalents?

The channels I originally wanted to add EPG for are CNN HD and CNBC HD both of which are not part of Freesat but which could easily be faked by copying from their Freesat non HD versions.

I don’t know why you don’t just use Sky UK FTA only instead of Freesat, you will get much more channels than Freesat offers.


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[abu baniaz]

You are right. However, issue is EPG, not bouquets.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

I don’t know why you don’t just use Sky UK FTA only instead of Freesat, you will get much more channels than Freesat offers.

How would I do that?

[Andy_Hazza]

When you use ABM (AutoBouquetsMaker), in the Providers section you would select Sky UK and select your region, for example East Midlands HD and you will see option to just enable Sky UK (FTA Only), set this to yes and then go through the rest of the options in that page, I.e. Enable Swap, Create All Channels Section etc. Then save it. Once you are happy with everything do a Scan. Exit out of everything once the scan has been completed.
Then use your TV button (or in some cases the FAV button to reload your Bouquets. [emoji4]


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[BrianTheTechieSnail]

When you use ABM (AutoBouquetsMaker), in the Providers section you would select Sky UK and select your region, for example East Midlands HD and you will see option to just enable Sky UK (FTA Only), set this to yes and then go through the rest of the options in that page, I.e. Enable Swap, Create All Channels Section etc. Then save it. Once you are happy with everything do a Scan. Exit out of everything once the scan has been completed.
Then use your TV button (or in some cases the FAV button to reload your Bouquets. [emoji4]


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I have the Sky bouquets set up how I want them.
I mainly just want working EPG for CNBC HD and CNN HD which aren't part of Freesat.

[abu baniaz]

Have you carried out the recommendations I made about EPG?

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Have you carried out the recommendations I made about EPG?

Which ones?

Everything is working better now I have realised that Tuner A seems to have an intermittent hardware fault.
See https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?62794-Brand-new-Zgemma-H7S-probable-hardware-fault

(Still no EPG for CNBC HD and CNN HD of course)

[Joe_90]

Which ones?

Everything is working better now I have realised that Tuner A seems to have an intermittent hardware fault.
See https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?62794-Brand-new-Zgemma-H7S-probable-hardware-fault

(Still no EPG for CNBC HD and CNN HD of course)
You have already said that CNBC HD and CNN HD are not part of the Freesat EPG, so why are you having difficulty in understanding that you won't get the EPG for those channels? In order to get EPG for channels exclusive to SKY, you need to either tune to the SKY iEPG transponder frequency for a couple of minutes with the OpenTV EPG reader enabled OR install the CrossEPG plugin from the feeds and run it on a daily basis. That way you will get the SKY-specific channels populated in the EPG. @abu pointed this out in an earlier post.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

No need to be so nasty and claim I don't understand.
It says a lot that you choose to be known by the name of a mafia thug.
I just want to know how I can get EPG for them.
I said I already tried installing CrossEPG.
It crashed the box so I couldn't do anything.
It's a flat out lie that either of "OpenTV EPG reader" or "SKY iEPG" have been mention in this thread before. THEY HAVE NOT.

[abu baniaz]

OpenTV EPG reader is also enabled by default. Although not explicitly mentioned in text, post 34 has a screenshot of what to set. Why would mention of it be made when it is already enabled anyway? I also mention what to tune to.

Fat-Tony and others are only trying to help. There is no need for any aggression towards him.

I don't know if you realise it, but you are posting with a lot of attitude. There is no need for it.







We have a fairly relaxed atmosphere on this forum where everyone tries to help others, we'd like to keep it that way. I'm sure you too will be among those who help others.

[Sicilian]

No need to be so nasty and claim I don't understand.
It says a lot that you choose to be known by the name of a mafia thug.
I just want to know how I can get EPG for them.
I said I already tried installing CrossEPG.
It crashed the box so I couldn't do anything.
It's a flat out lie that either of "OpenTV EPG reader" or "SKY iEPG" have been mention in this thread before. THEY HAVE NOT.

Theres no need to be aggressive in your posts. Please calm down or this thread will closed, this is just a hobby for members and staff here. Many methods of obtaining EPG have been advised in this thread. Members or staff will not try to you help you if you are aggressive towards them.

Theres a very good guide here for EPG Refresh: https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?40457-Using-EPG-Refresh-plugin-to-obtain-the-epg-off-the-stream

[Joe_90]

No need to be so nasty and claim I don't understand.
It says a lot that you choose to be known by the name of a mafia thug.
I just want to know how I can get EPG for them.
I said I already tried installing CrossEPG.
It crashed the box so I couldn't do anything.
It's a flat out lie that either of "OpenTV EPG reader" or "SKY iEPG" have been mention in this thread before. THEY HAVE NOT.

ha-ha! fat-tony is a rather avuncular character in The Simpsons :cool:

I thought that being a "tech head" you might have investigated CrossEPG or tuning to the SKY EPG (which abu posted about in #27 and which you quoted in post #35).

You're making it very difficult for people to support your issues when you use terms like WTF etc. when they answer you. I think I'm done with this thread.:wave:

[danny121pt]

Could use Epg Importer and tick all sources in Rytec Misc and Rytec UK.

CNN here 7 days worth when checking.

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Sorry, should have said sooner. Once I realised Tuner A wasn't working right and switched to using Tuner B EPG did populate overnight. I guess what I had set in, probably, EPG Refresh worked.
Anyhow I don't think I need more help now, and the help I have received already is obviously correct since it did work on Tuner B.

I'm now waiting while the H7S is returned to WOS for testing.

Thank you everybody who helped me.