Unable to receive Thor 0.8W

[eggie99]

Hi all
I have a problem that is i cant receive Thor 0.8 W also 5W has i have about 50 foot tree opposite in neighbours garden. So im having problems setting up motorised dish.

System Triax 1.1m dish and Dark motor with giggablue quad hd plus receiver. Did try lat has 52 but dish pointing too low and then used elevation setting at 37 degrees on motor. But cant accuratelt track the arc because
cant align it with thor or 5W. Also ppsitions on motor dont correspond with sat position for example astra at 28.2 motor postion is 33.4 tried motor reset but get the same gain.

lat 52.574
long 2.010

Can anyone help on how to align the dish without Thor or 5W but be able to get the whole arc.

Thanks
Eggie

[abu baniaz]

You do not have to focus on those. It is just that your due south satellite is where everything is straight. You are going to struggle if you want to use the non-usals method. If you want to use the Usals method, I will post further details.



long 2.010


Is that east or west?

[ronand]

The position shown on the motor is not supposed to correspond to the satellite position so don't worry about that. Have a look at both sides of the mounting bracket - the scales are different on both sides. You will need to align to the satellite nearest 0 that you can receive. Although you can use any satellite as long as you drive the motor its position first but it will take a bit of tweaking to get it to track the arc correctly. Also make sure your longitude is correct (East or West)

[eggie99]

Hi all
My long is West and lat and long correct taken from dishpointer has I am based in West Midlands. The reason is the huge tree blocking few East and West Sat's. So can't use Thor 5W and 7W to track the Arc.

I did try and use Astra 28.2 first and couldn't track the Arc properly.

@abu Can you post some info on USALS that what I am using at moment .

Thanks all

[abu baniaz]

Re-check the hardware stuff first. Plumb levels and markings on side of motor.
Reset the motor using the button on motor.
Install a channel list on receiver
Set tuner as pictured

Send motor to 0 using option in positioner setup
Select a channel on 28.2, dish will move.
Adjust assembly. Dish angle and motor position on pole. Do not adjust the motor angle.
Once you have picture on 28.2, select one on 13e. Do same adjustments.

[Joe_90]

Just to chip in - by convention longitude 2.010W is entered as -2.010 on some receivers. All longitudes west of the meridian are negative. ViX image will show East/West, though.

[eggie99]

Hi all

thanks abu for info but i did that 1st but couldnt get all the arc. So deciced to start from scratch , took old pole out and re embedding it back in garden making sure its plumb.
So once that done and set then will try alignment an and will post back the results.

see pic and Thor and other West sats are about the middle of tree.

thanks
Eggie
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[eggie99]

Hi all
Mounted dish about 3m high on wall pole plumb but still cannot track arc fully.

So thinking of getting bigger dish which is better plus Gibbertini 1.2m or primesat 1.3m sold by Sat Superstore.

Any recommendations on which better for weak signals pls. Also already have inverto ultra black Lnb and any other Lnb recommendations for weak signals pls.

Also will both dishes make use of either Alsat Dark motor or Technisat TM2600 motor i have both.

Thanks
Eggie

[Joe_90]

A bigger dish has a smaller acceptance angle which means it needs to be pointed at the satellite very accurately. If you're having issues tracking the arc at the moment it may get worse with a bigger dish. When you say that your current dish is mounted on a wall, is it attached using T and K brackets as in - is the pole supported above and below by brackets? A bigger dish will mean increased wind load, so the wall mounting needs to be very secure. Also, your current motor may not handle a bigger dish. Even with a bigger dish you may not ever be able to get 0.8W or 5W, unless you get your hands on a chainsaw! Try aligning your current setup with say 13E or 15W and work from there.

[eggie99]

Hi Tony

My dish is on a 6 foot pole 50mm wide and embedded in the ground. I can only receive sats on the east arc, 13e, 19.2e, 28.2e and 42e.
I cant receive on sats on the West arc dont know why that is. The way i,m aligning dish is by turning motor to 28.2 and turning whole dish and motor to get a signal.
Signal i get is about 58% but thats with the dish eleavation set at 46 degrees which is too high for the rest of sats, thats whats baffling me. My Long and Lat is 52.474 N and 2.0101 W.

Any help appreciated in aligning the dish pls.

See pics

Thanks
Eggie

[Joe_90]

Your dish elevation seems way too high. Your motor elevation should read 38 degrees or be set to 52 latitude. Usually one side of the motor mount is marked elevation and the other side latitude. It looks similar to my setup which is at 53N and 6W. However, my dish elevation is almost parallel where it's mounted on the motor (the "elephant's trunk"). Usually dish elevation is around 30 degrees for an offset dish, which is what I assume yours is (the LNB on the arm points upward to the centre of the dish).
When you say you can get 13E, 19.2E etc are you having to change the dish elevation each time?
I'm at 6W and the wall my dish is mounted on faces South. So I start with the motor set to zero and pointing South on the pole. The dish is mounted exactly on the centre of the motor pole (elephant's trunk) and is not moved subsequently. Making sure I have my coordinates set in the receiver correctly (53N and 6W (or -6)) I tell the dish to move to 5W on the USALS menu. After the dish moves I rotate the whole motor assembly on its pole and tweak the dish elevation to peak the signal. Once that is done on 5W, the other sats should come in. In your case your due South point is midway between Thor on 0.8W and 5W but obviously the tree is in the way of both those sats, so you need to use 13E or maybe 15W. Your start point should be with the motor set to zero. At this stage it should be pointing at the tree (assuming the tree is genuinely due South of the pole). The motor elevation should bet set correctly at 52 / 38 degrees. Send the motor to 13E or wherever you can be clear of the tree. Tweak the dish elevation and move the whole motor and dish together to peak the signal. You should then be able to send the dish from 42E to 30W and check the signal at both ends of the travel.

Here's a photo of my dish pointing at 5W (nearest due south for me) and also at 28.2 E.

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Is there any way you can mount the dish securely on the house wall, high up? That way it may clear the tree at your south position.

[eggie99]

Hi all

I said i would post back after putting in new post. I put in new post in the ground and set up Pole 100% plumb ( see pics ) . Have the same problem if i set the elevation at 23.8 for Astra 28.2 so can align dish on Astra and then scan rest of sats
the same problem exists the elevation has to be set quite high about 45 degrees or so ( see pic ) . If set low cant receive Astra at all until i raise the elevation and then i cant get the rest of Sats. At moment can only get 19.2E, 28.2E and 42E thats all. I cant receive any West sats because of tree. Would like to receive 13E but cant since elevation too high.

I did set motor to 0 and aligned due south and then moved motor to 28.2 and tweaked the whole setup moving motor and dish same time until i got Astra 28.2 but had to raise elevation. Has seen from Dish pic elevation high compared to neighbours dish.

Any help appreciated

Thanks
Eggie

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[ronand]

OK. You need to set the dish bracket angle correctly first. That should be set to 27.5 - your dish is pointing way too high at the moment

Also how did you move the motor to 28.2 degrees? With the buttons on the motor or using the satellite receiver?

[eggie99]

I moved the motor using sat receiver , first used goto 0 and moved it to 28.2 , i know elevation too high but if i put elevation down i cant get a signal , only way to receive signal is at this elevation. Tried setting at 27.5 but no luck
cant receive anything on my Sat meter only by setting elevation where it is now can i receive a signal and view picture on meter.

Just come across another scale on the left side, so dont know which scale on right or left is elevation. (see pic)/

Have any idea which is elevation scale

thanks
Eggie

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[Joe_90]

As @ronand says (as did I earlier), your dish elevation looks way too high. Any chance of a photo (upright, not sideways, please!) of your dish from side-on, when it's facing due south? Like my second photo where I'm at the zero point on the motor. It's hard to tell from your last photo, but the angle of the LNB as it points at the dish, looks wrong. See my second photo, where the LNB is pointing upwards at an angle to focus on the centre of the dish? The actual signal reception comes from the top of the dish and is reflected at an angle to the LNB. Your LNB arm almost looks as if it is bent, but that may be just the way the photo was taken.

Here's a couple of drawings (not mine) to illustrate what I mean:

[ronand]

I have a feeling the dish itself is incorrectly assembled. I have a triax td110 and have been trying to compare the pictures. The notch for setting the bracket angle should be on the left (if standing behind the dish) but from the limited photos it seems to be on the right so you are using the wrong scale. You will need to take the dish off and turn the adjustable part around. If you are not sure please post better pictures that we can see the actual installation orientation

[ronand]

Here is a picture of mine

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Edit: The picture gets rotated by the server unfortunately. Rotate clockwise by 90 degrees

[Joe_90]

Here's a link to a demo of a Triax 110cm dish assembly. Just check that your dish and LNB arm are installed the same way. You may have the dish assembled incorrectly, but I would have thought that the LNB arm which goes through the dish would only attach correctly at one end?
Not sure why the upload is rotating the photos (mine are oriented correctly in portrait mode). :confused:

Anyway - here's a link to a TVTrade video showing a Triax dish. It's a useful website for showing practical how-to videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhbpPxaoi7Q

[eggie99]

Hi all

I have tried reducing the motor elevation has motor is printed with latitude. I was using 52 Degrees has my lat on the motor and dish elevation looked way too high. So i used the eleavation printed next to the latitude which is 38 Degrees.
Now the elevation does look low now compared too rest of dishes but still cant get the full arc. At moment can only get 19.2E and Astra 28.2. My posting pics of motor and few pagess of the manual, also i noticed the Sat positions programmed in Motor dont corespond to actaual Sat positions. So wondering if thats the problem why i cant receive full arc.

See pics of motor used and few manual pages and also dish pics. Also left side of dish has smaller scale printe where on right side of dish a largerscale printedd so dont really lnow which is elevation.
Did changeelevation bracket round but cant get elevation bracket to slide high up the dish for elevation.

Thanks
eggie

Also photos are straight when taken but go side ways when uploaded.

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[ronand]

Set the Latitude to 52 degrees (not the elevation). Elevation is 90-Latitude=38. The scales are different on each side of the bracket. It doesn't matter which you use as long as you know which is which. You should not be using the motor positions if using USALS - thats only for disecq. You still have the bracket upside down on the dish. Also what degrees are on the LED display on the motor when you are at 28.2?

[Joe_90]

Again - I'll chip in as regards the LNB. The LNB looks like it's pointing straight at the centre of the dish instead of angling upwards. When I google triax 110cm dishes, the LNB arm looks like it is coming fairly straight through the bottom of the dish. The LNB holder then points the LNB upwards towards the dish to catch the reflected signal. Either your LNB arm is attached incorrectly or maybe it is bent?
As per @ronand's post - your motor latitude should be set to 52 (your latitude), or motor elevation 38 as per my posts also. I see a lot of scratches on the motor arm (elephant's trunk), as if you are moving the dish bracket around. The dish should be attached squarely on the centre line of the motor arm. There is usually a casting mark down the centre of the arm, so the u-bolts of the dish should be exactly symmetric around the centre and not moved subsequently. Maybe the dish bracket being upside down is the cause of the issue, but I still think the LNB arm looks wrong, but maybe it's just the angle of your photo. I see you have a sturdy T & K bracket on the wall of your house - maybe that would get the dish high enough to clear your neighbour's tree? Manhandling a 1.1m dish up a ladder is not for the faint-hearted, though. Been there, bought the tee-shirt etc.... have a look at the screen grab I did from a video on the Triax dish and compare with the LNB arm on yours.

[ronand]

The arm is definitely too high. Mine is nearly horizontal at 28e

[Joe_90]

The arm is definitely too high. Mine is nearly horizontal at 28e

They usually are - most offset dishes look up 30 degrees when they are almost upright. Look at any SKY dish and you will see that the face is practically vertical, because the LNB is tilted up 30 degrees. If @eggie99's LNB arm is actually bent, then game over, but if it's a mounting issue, then it may be fixable.

[eggie99]

Hi all

Thanks for your help gladly appreciated. I think fat tony might be right about my Lnb arm being bent, My prevoius property Dish mounted Over rear Roof on a 6 foot pole, due to excessive winds over time the pole snapped in half Dish
fell down onto a flat roof about 10 Foot drop. So dismantled it and now decided to put it up, so expereincing lots of problems.

@ ronand when at Astra 28.2 Motor displays 33.6 with 62% signal.

Anyway thanks all instead of trying to fix this might buy a Gibertini Dish 1.25m with either MTI Lnb or Invacom Lnb with matched Gibby feed horn.

Any thoughts on Gibby dish is it a good dish ? and which Lnb better MTI or Invacom ?

Thanks all
Eggie

Just a few more pics has Tony couldnt tell if arm bent.

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Middle Pic where Arm goes through the Dish looks bent compared to Pic Tony sent off Triax dish.

[Joe_90]

It sure seems like the LNB arm is bent. You should be able to tell yourself from looking at it - creases in the metal etc.
Why are you not using the T&K brackets on the upstairs wall? That's the better location if you want any chance of reception of Thor and 5W - although you would want to be absolutely sure the wall and anchors will take the wind load. No matter how big the dish is, you are not going to get reception through a tree. As regards specialist low-noise LNBs and feed horns - don't waste your money. Dish size trumps all. It's only if you were into marginal signal feed hunting that you would get any benefit from super low-noise LNBs. You really are handicapped by having the dish so close to the ground, with the obstructions around you to the south.

[eggie99]

Hi
Thanks for info about the arm , just ordered a new Gibby 1.25m with twin Invacom Lnb with feed horn with delivery all in £260. Which is not a bad price.

As for the T and K brackets on wall , made a mistake when ordered them, ordered 36 inch long was able to put them up on the wall by standing on the flat roof of bay window but when I came to put the dish up too far out to reach and.ladder ain't big enough to get me to the exact height has the brackets too far out, so might need to change them for 24 inch ones.

Thanks
Eggie

[Joe_90]

That's a major price investment for a dish and LNB :eek:
Hope you get the enjoyment out of your purchase - as we say in Ireland - well wear!
As regards your brackets - the 36" ones are excellent for wall clearance with big dishes (just like the one you've just bought!). You can always stand off the ladder from the wall to reach the pole. It's easy for me to say that, but at 66 years of age, Mrs Fat-Tony won't let me climb ladders anytime soon!

[eggie99]

Hi all

Just a quick update , received my new Gibertini 1.25m with Gibertini feedhorn and Invacom twin Lnb. All set up and yes all peeps my old triax 110D arm was bent.
Now all set up i still cant receive and west sats due to huge tree but can receive all sats right upto 53 degrees east and get a picture have not tried beyond 53 Degrees so dont know if i cant pick anything else up.
Most Sats in 75 to 80% Signal and Astra 28.2 its 100% and further East i go the signal drops at 53 East i get about 35% but i think the limits on my motor are wrong so need to sort that because Motor wont go past 52.5 East
hence only 35% on 53 East all in all set up quite good and impressed with new dish.

see pics

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Thanks for every ones help gladly appreciated.

Eggie

[ronand]

That looks a lot better now. Time to get out the chainsaw and finish the job off. There isn't a whole lot beyond 53e to worry about and the dish must be pretty much bang on to get anything on it so leave it alone! Enjoy

[abu baniaz]

Well done for persevering.

Some great advice from Fat-Tony and Ronand

[Joe_90]

Yep - nothing beyond 53E - it's pretty much on the horizon. I presume you're getting 12/15/30W though? I'd be interested in a photo from behind your dish when it's at zero. I'd like to see where the tree is in relation to your south. Glad you finally got sorted. Also glad I've not lost my marbles to spot the odd angle of your LNB arm :fart2:

[eggie99]

Hi all

thanks for the advice given , gladly appreciated has photos of tree relation to dish are below has for west sats no cant receive any for some reason i think its due to thr tree and also another large bush on the next door neighbours side.
Also noticed the Technomate TM 2600 motor dont go the whole arc its stops at about 52 Degrees and both west and East sides , it marked has 80 Degrees on both sides. Any way to extend travel to 80 Degrees on both sides ?

Also attached pic of 52E at 30% to 36% Signal fluctuates.

see pics

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Thanks
Eggie

[ronand]

Its quite normal to see signal levels fluctuating on weaker signals as the atmosphere affects it. There may be motor limits set but it any case there is not much to the east as the sats will be below the horizon and you dont have a good view of the eastern sky there. There are a few middle eastern channels on 53e and there is nothing left on 57e ku band so dont beat yourself up over it. Also with the larger dish you need to be more accurate

[Joe_90]

@eggie99 - Thanks for the pics. 57E is the furthest I got some years ago with my 1.1m dish. The furthest west satellite for me was 58W. and, at each end of the arc, the dish was almost on the horizon. There's never any reason for more than 60 degrees travel in either direction at our latitudes as you're pointing at the horizon at that point. You are somewhat restricted by the fact that your dish is at ground level. You would get better obstacle clearance with the dish up on the T & K brackets on your upstairs wall, but you'd need to be sure of wind loading effects on the wall etc. I presume you're picking up 15W and 30W, though?

[eggie99]

Hi Tony
No cant get any Sats on the West arc and definite not 15 W and 30W. I do have a large Bush in neighbour 2 doors away , can see it in the 4th pic. So at moment no Sats on West arc.

As for the T and K brackets can't get a ladder to reach them has they are 36 inch long . It buy a ladder stand off but still can't them with my ladder. Also did notice the bottom bracket, I think its known has K bracket about wobbly at the front of bracket but attached to wall with about 100mm long bolts, but the top bracket , the T quite stable.

Would the brackets become more stable when a Pole attaches to them ?

Also thinking of changing brackets to a L.shapee with about 450mm stand off. Going to buy them from Satellite Superstore on the web but don't know if they will take the weight or not.

Just wait and see what I'll do for attaching Dish to Wall.

Thanks all

[Joe_90]

You need the brackets to standoff from the wall by about half the diameter of the dish so that it can rotate without fouling the wall or guttering in the vicinity. If either of the brackets are wobbly, then my advice is don't use them. I see your walls are brick. Unless you are absolutely sure they can take the wind load of a 1.2m dish, then don't mount it. My walls are 9" cavity concrete block, so they are pretty sturdy. Pity you are so restricted as regards arc. I'd have similar issues if my dish was mounted low as there are trees all around me.