Winter Hill (Again) [Archive] - Satellite Support Forum .: Home of OpenViX Team:.

wasp

29-02-20, 02:15

Hi all,

After you sorted the issue I was having with the Lancashire petal from Winter Hill Transmitter (as per this thread https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59708-Winter-Hill-(Preston-Area)),

Due to the 700mhz clear-out, it has happened again...

if I scan with ABM set to WH (lancs), channel 7 is blank, when I use DVB-T frequency finder, switch to North West terrestrial, it finds Liverpool petal on Channel 7 not Lancashire.
however it is showing in terrestrial services as Thats TV

Can you please sort, I know i opened a can of worms last time .....so apologies in advance

Warren

wasp

01-03-20, 13:37

Just noticed that when ABM provider set to Winter Hill (Lancashire) and Channel 7 is That's TV (but blank), it is set to 754mhz but I believe it should now be 626mhz,
with some more changes due in 22 April 2020 as stated here 59750

wasp

02-03-20, 00:07

Hi I have attached the debug log, is there any other files i should attach?
59751

wasp

02-03-20, 14:30

I've also now got the latest scan from frequency finder
59752

wasp

11-03-20, 03:22

How long does it take to sort this issue out? i scanned again using winter hill (lancs) and its still wrong

ccs

11-03-20, 11:16

Have you tried using "North West terrestrial" again after running frequency finder?

wasp

11-03-20, 12:20

yes, i am using North West Terrestrial and i manually swap Liverpool for that's TV (channel 7), it was all working fine until the mux changes and there are more due in April.

birdman

11-03-20, 20:01

The terrestrial.xml file contains old data for Winter Hill.
554 -> 754
706 -> 562
would be the current state, but that's changing again on 22 Apr.

https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/coverage-checker/detailed-view/granada?postcode=S445ED&address=

abu baniaz

11-03-20, 23:10

Thanks, I have updated the Terrestrail.xml file used for scanning in Enigma2. But that is irrelevant to ABM. ABM reads tables SI tables for almost all providers it works with.

abu baniaz

11-03-20, 23:19

yes, i am using North West Terrestrial and i manually swap Liverpool for that's TV (channel 7), it was all working fine until the mux changes and there are more due in April.

I don't understand final implication of what you are saying so cannot make any changes to the ABM file.

Please answer following question with a simple yes or no (add full stops to make 10 digits). Do not add any more comments, otherwise we go around in circles. If you wish to make more comments, please make a separate post.

Question:

Does ABM's frequency finder work correctly for you?

abu baniaz

11-03-20, 23:42

This is the hack that was added, it just needs updating

https://github.com/oe-alliance/AutoBouquetsMaker/commit/1f32509df8cdcf325981f68441fb5673b06c6b23

This is beacuse

Yes, There are 3 petals for Winter Hill Multiplex L

Liverpool Petal
Manchester Petal
Blackpool/Preston Petal

Multiplex LL - Liverpool
Bay TV Liverpool

Multiplex LM - Manchester
That's Manchester

Multiplex LPR - Preston
That's Lancashire

wasp

12-03-20, 02:02

No..............

ccs

12-03-20, 11:22

Winter Hill transmitter changes in detail....

https://www.freeview.co.uk/sites/default/files/2019-11/700mhz-clearance-events-granada-region.pdf

ccs

12-03-20, 12:29

There are some references to "petals" here (not for North West) ....

http://help.digitaluk.co.uk/pf/197/webfiles/mux_list.pdf

Huevos

15-03-20, 18:11

Set tuner config to Europe or UK defaults. Open satfinder. Go through each transponder in turn. On each transponder press the yellow button to display the channel names. Work out which is your local mux. Make a note of the TSID/ONID and frequency. Post the result.

abu baniaz

15-03-20, 18:17

Huevos

15-03-20, 20:30

I have updatde the Winter Hill one. Wouldnt that be better?Yes long as the data in source that has been used for updating terrestrial.xml is accurate. Problem for us is we only have the frequencies, not the TSIDs.

abu baniaz

15-03-20, 22:42

These were what frequency finder found in uploaded file on post 4.

<customtransponders>
<customtransponder key="custom" frequency="474000000" transport_stream_id="8008" system="0"/>


<customtransponder key="custom" frequency="626000000" transport_stream_id="800d" system="0"/>


<customtransponder key="custom" frequency="738000000" transport_stream_id="4088" system="1"/>
<customtransponder key="custom" frequency="746000000" transport_stream_id="a000" system="1"/>
<customtransponder key="custom" frequency="754000000" transport_stream_id="b000" system="1"/>


</customtransponders>

Huevos

15-03-20, 23:31

Do we know which one is his local mux? Which TSID?

abu baniaz

16-03-20, 22:22

His debug log is on post 3. Its doesn't seem to be from ViX and he has not enabled extra debug in ABM. I also find bundles statements unclear and have to be farthmed an probed.

IMO, far better to post:
When I run ABM, I get channel uuuuu on LCN vvvvv & frequency wwww. This is wrong. I should get channel xxxx on frequency zzzzz on LCN vvvvv

Clear post on what you get, confirming it is wrong and also clarifying what it should be. We can then look at logs and find the bits that mentioned instead of guessing what is implied.

I don't know which petal he is in. The home frequency for all three petals is 706MHz. Anyway, lets see what details can be provided.

wasp

21-03-20, 01:42

Sorry i don't understand all the terminology your using, TSID, LCN etc,
I live in Lancashire, when i use free-view provider = WinterHill (Lancs) channel 7 is blank, when i scanned with frequency finder channel 7 is the wrong petal = Liverpool not Lancashire.
I don't think the petals are on 706Mhz after clear out and that's where the problem lies i think

birdman

21-03-20, 02:05

According to:
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/coverage-checker/detailed-view/granada?postcode=S445ED&address=the petals haven't ever been on 706 (BBC-A was, until 20 Feb this year).

Liverpool is on 474, Manchester on 498 and Preston on 626.

Huevos

21-03-20, 20:34

@wasp, in the ViX image go to satfinder. Use a skin that shows the TSID data, e.g. Simple1080.

Start with Birdman's suggested frequencies.

Once you see the yellow button appear, press it to see what channels are on that mux.

If you find the channel you are looking for post back the frequency and TSID.

abu baniaz

21-03-20, 21:38

Screenshots to illustrate what Huevos is saying attached.
Menu > Setup > Tuners & Scanning > Signal Finder

Select the Terrestrial tuner. Then go through them. If you know the frequency/UHF channel that "That's lancashire" is on, go straight to that one.

In answer to your queries.
What you are calling channel 7 = LCN 7 (Logical Channel Number). Please do not mix this up with the UHF channel/frequency.
TSID = Transport Stream ID. See picture. We are interested in the one that has "That's Lancashire"
I have also posted the ones for your region in post 18.

wasp

22-03-20, 19:56

The LCN for "That's TV" is 07,
The frequency is 626mhz,
TSID is 32781 (800d)

as per:

59799

Huevos

22-03-20, 20:56

The LCN for "That's TV" is 07,
The frequency is 626mhz,
TSID is 32781 (800d)

as per:

59799Is this channel "That's Lancashire".

wasp

23-03-20, 00:45

It is "That's TV" for the Lancashire/Preston area (Petal) so yes

wasp

23-03-20, 01:30

Now I have a basic idea, does this help:

LCN 07, "That's TV" at 626mhz, TSID is 32781 (800d) = WinterHill (Lancashire)
LCN 07,"Liverpool TV" at 474mhz, TSID is 32776 (8008) = WinterHill (Liverpool)
LCN 07, Manchester I cannot receive but believe it is 498mhz.

Huevos

25-03-20, 20:39

Ok, try the attached file.

wasp

26-03-20, 14:32

Ok, try the attached file.

Tried the file and all seems great with both WH lancs & WH Liverpool,

Superb work as usual.
Stay Safe.

bluepassat

01-07-20, 19:35

Andy_Hazza

01-07-20, 19:46

You are on a very old image. Have you tried on ViX 5.3.035 to see if it’s the same?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bluepassat

01-07-20, 19:51

just done a automatic scan of just Dvb-t2 and looked in last scanned and non of those channels are listed

Andy_Hazza

01-07-20, 19:55

According to the official Freeview listing, the above are all listed. Update your image and see how you go.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

adm

01-07-20, 20:03

just done a automatic scan of just Dvb-t2 and looked in last scanned and non of those channels are listed

On a ET10000 using Vix 5.3.035 they all work for me using ABM from the Bluebell Hill transmitter.

From which transmitter do you obtain your signals?

Edit: All those channels are on the same MUX (com7) which may/will have been switched off in some areas. Its all part of the move to free up the spectrum for 5G.

you may have also lost
FreeSports,
Quest Red +1
NOW 80s
More4 +1,
Together TV +1,
Pick +1,
PBS America +1.
Forces TV,
CBeebies HD

bluepassat

01-07-20, 21:11

i use winter hill manchester

@adm i have just checked all the channels you have listed and non of them work

so its the transmitter?

malcolmp

01-07-20, 21:16

Hello

i have Et8500 and have a DVB-t2 tuner for freeview but i have noticed

bbc four HD
bbc news HD
qvc HD
qvc beatuty HD
rt HD
quest HD

they are listed but dont clear

im using ABM

is it the tuner or have freeview removed some channels

thanks

All those stations above were broadcast on Channel 56 (754 MHz) [COM8 Arqiva National] which in London has ceased to broadcast (at least on my TV)

The ones below are now broadcast on Channel 55 (756 MHz) COM7 Arqiva National
64 FreeSports
72 QUEST Red+1
83 NOW 80s
86 More 4+1
89 Together +1
93 PBS+1
96 Forces TV
106 BBC 4 HD
107 BBC News HD
111 QVC HD
112 QVC Beauty HD
113 RT HD
114 QUEST HD
205 Cbeebies HD

ccs

01-07-20, 21:17

Retune needed June 22, bbc4 hd certainly has changed.

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?62999-Freeview-22-June-2020&highlight=june

https://www.freeview.co.uk/corporate/platform-management/700mhz-clearance/clearance-events-2020

If mux's have changed, the best bet is to use Frequency Finder.

adm

01-07-20, 22:44

i use winter hill manchester

@adm i have just checked all the channels you have listed and non of them work

so its the transmitter?

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the timing of switch off of the MUXs on the 700MHz band and some dates may have been extended due to the Covid Virus. The transmitter page for Winter Hill suggest Nov 2020 for switch off BUT in recent years I have no faith that some of these Freeview related web pages have been maintained and the information could be out of date.

adm

01-07-20, 22:55

On a ET10000 using Vix 5.3.035 they all work for me using ABM from the Bluebell Hill transmitter.

On Bluebell Hill these signals are on Com7 (746 MHz - ch 55)

abu baniaz

01-07-20, 22:59

1. ABM threads shuold have debug log
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?44783-Please-read-before-raising-ABM-support-questions

2. We need to manipulate the data for winter hill. We will need the details as per this thread
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?62523-Winter-Hill-(Again)&highlight=winter+hill

3. Frequncy finder (mentioned above) should be used for ABM users
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59815-ABM-Frequency-Finder-Add-HD-channels-regions-UK-Terrestrial

abu baniaz

01-07-20, 23:02

Can we please stop posting frequencies for people using ABM? ABM does not scan, ABM reads the SI tables. If you want to help the OP with ABM, please upload the amended xml file he/she needs to test. And in any case, unless you are using the same mast, there is no guarantee you are using the same frequencies.

If the person is not using ABM, please continue to suggest the frequencies the person should scan.

birdman

02-07-20, 02:00

On Bluebell Hill these signals are on Com7 (746 MHz - ch 55)COM8 was merged into COM7, with some services being lost.
COM8 has now been shut off (at least it has here - I did another retune today and it's not in lamedb any more).

abu baniaz

02-07-20, 02:34

COM8 was merged into COM7, with some services being lost.
COM8 has now been shut off (at least it has here - I did another retune today and it's not in lamedb any more).

How can we use this information to help the the OP?

birdman

02-07-20, 11:20

How can we use this information to help the the OP?Don't know. Perhaps the terrestrial.xml file in 5.0.16 is out of date and so not scanning the correct channels?
It's also possible that both COM7 and COM8 have been removed from the transmitter. I seem to recall this has happened in a few cases. Beacon Hill and Caradon Hill? So Cornwall/Torbay area.

abu baniaz

02-07-20, 12:06

ABM does not use the terrestrial XML file.

bluepassat

02-07-20, 12:06

According to the official Freeview listing, the above are all listed. Update your image and see how you go.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks guys i can confirm the image update worked now on 5.3.035 and all channels are working :thumbsup:

bluepassat

05-07-20, 16:45

Hi all

just for a bit of information i have more than 1 box, i found if you FTP over the newer version of ABM to the older boxes it also works

save to having to update each box

hope this helps

blue

ccs

05-07-20, 16:50

.... see here as well https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?56797-ABM-standalone-installation

Andy_Hazza

05-07-20, 20:25

iamSteve

13-08-20, 20:13

Hi,

I have gone to retune both my VU Openvix boxes, however when I try to run ABM for them I get the following issue:-

60489

It is fine if I just do DVB-S, but as soon as I try the Winter Hill DVB-T tuners it fails.
(Was all previously working until this retune)

Any Ideas Please?

Steve.

abu baniaz

13-08-20, 20:58

Probably changes owing to 700mhz work.
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/12-aug-channel-changes

Please run Frequency finder within ABM. it should work. There is a stuck thread about it here:
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59815-ABM-Frequency-Finder-Add-HD-channels-regions-UK-Terrestrial

When you submit your xml, please say which frequency BBC One SD is on.

iamSteve

14-08-20, 13:11

Here is the xml

<?xml version="1.0"?>

-<provider>

<name>North West terrestrial</name>

<streamtype>dvbt</streamtype>

<protocol>lcn</protocol>

-<dvbtconfigs>

<configuration system="0" frequency="602000000" key="custom">North West terrestrial</configuration>

</dvbtconfigs>

-<customtransponders>





<customtransponder system="0" frequency="482000000" key="custom" transport_stream_id="200d"/>















<customtransponder system="1" frequency="586000000" key="custom" transport_stream_id="4088"/>











<customtransponder system="1" frequency="746000000" key="custom" transport_stream_id="a000"/>



</customtransponders>

-<sections>

<section number="1">Entertainment</section>

<section number="100">High Definition</section>

<section number="201">Children</section>

<section number="230">News</section>

<section number="260">BBC Interactive</section>

<section number="670">Adult</section>

</sections>

-<swapchannels>

<channel number="1" with="101"/>



<channel number="2" with="102"/>



<channel number="3" with="103"/>



<channel number="4" with="104"/>



<channel number="5" with="105"/>



<channel number="9" with="106"/>



<channel number="13" with="109"/>



<channel number="47" with="110"/>



<channel number="201" with="204"/>



<channel number="202" with="205"/>



<channel number="231" with="107"/>



</swapchannels>

-<servicehacks>

-<![CDATA[

tsidonidlist= [
"8008:233a",
"200d:233a",
"1053:233a",
"1048:233a",
"200b:233a",
"4088:233a",
"6040:233a",
"1:1",
"a000:233a",
]

tsidonidkey = "%x:%x" % (service["transport_stream_id"], service["original_network_id"])
if tsidonidkey not in tsidonidlist:
skip = True

]]>
</servicehacks>

</provider>

iamSteve

14-08-20, 13:26

BBC 1 SD looks to be on 562.0MHz although no a great reception.

iamSteve

14-08-20, 13:31

Problem I have now is many recordings are set on DVB-T rather than DVB-S, and restricted to look at certain Channels on Freeview UK but without changing all the auto timers DVB-T is now on North West terrestrial

abu baniaz

14-08-20, 20:12

You could have attached the xml instead of posting the contents. I now have to faff about editing it.

Anyway, it has been done. You need to look at the other Winter Hill threads to see what needs doing if you still have issues. There are three petals and each will need something different adding.

abu baniaz

14-08-20, 21:16

Screenshot of winter Hill frequencies as of 12 August 2020

What does G-Man mean? I know the Man is for Manchester.

Huevos

15-08-20, 00:49

Greater Manchester?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Manchester

abu baniaz

15-08-20, 04:17

So what is L-Man, Lesser Manchester?
😀

BrianTheTechieSnail

15-08-20, 13:07

L is Local (as you know).
I think they just wanted a different letter so they could have two different Local muxs for Manchester and not have them both called L-Man.

iamSteve

15-08-20, 13:29

I could not find a forum option to attach the xml only a image or a link to something. Sorry.

Thanks.

ccs

15-08-20, 13:42

.... When posting, it's in advanced options, manage attachments.

abu baniaz

15-08-20, 18:14

I could not find a forum option to attach the xml only a image or a link to something. Sorry.

Thanks.
Not to worry, we got there in the end. I hope it is working ok for you now.

P.S
I have a link to a guide on howhow to add attachments in my signature if you need it.
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?44054-How-to-take-screen-shots-How-to-attach-files&p=444447&viewfull=1#post444447

iamSteve

16-08-20, 17:26

Looks like this alternative tuning method is working, when should I be able to switch back to the Freeview UK (Standard Selection)?

Thanks!

abu baniaz

16-08-20, 17:31

I have modified the files already. If you update ABM provider files it should work fine

bluepassat

19-09-20, 12:11

i have lost Quest HD via winter hill just after the last update 17th September i have tried the

Enable Expert mode
You will see the new option "Show DVB-T frequency finder

but ive lost a lot of channels i had 117 TV its now down to 96 TV north west terrestrial i seem to loose the same channels when there is a re-tune available

i have tried the updating the providers list

anyone else or is it just me

xtrend ET8500 running openvix

ccs

19-09-20, 13:30

When you say you've lost channels, is it based on what ABM summarises, because I found something similar, but the channels were still in the bouquet(s)?

https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?63034-In-at-the-Deep-End-with-Gigablue-UHD-4K&p=500344&viewfull=1#post500344

I haven't re-tuned for a while, I usually base the expected totals on what my freeview tv finds.

birdman

19-09-20, 20:23

From 19 Sep 2020 (and it's not due to change before 2025 according to freeview.co.uk) Winter Hill's frequencies (well, channels - the N colums) are (ignore the 100/100 figures, I gave the post code as the transmitter itself).

Winter Hill

Step
Date
BBC A
D3&4
BBC B HD
SDN
ARQ A
ARQ B
COM7 HD

N
S
M
N
S
M
N
S
M
N
S
M
N
S
M
N
S
M
N
S
M

Now
19 Sep 2020
32

100
100
34

100
100
35

100
100
29

100
100
31

100
100
37

100
100
55

100
100

Final prediction
2025
32

100
100
34

100
100
35

100
100
29

100
100
31

100
100
37

100
100
55

100
100

bluepassat

19-09-20, 22:15

ive just looked on my panasonic Tv and according to freeview site it should be on channel 114 but its also missing ?

bluepassat

19-09-20, 22:55

update i have changed the tuner configuration to UK all regions did a fresh scan and its working :thumbsup:

abu baniaz

19-09-20, 23:06

Please upload your lamedb and lamedb5 files. You will need to zip/rar them before uploading. On receiver, they are located in /etc/enigma2

birdman

20-09-20, 01:44

From 19 Sep 2020 (and it's not due to change before 2025 according to freeview.co.uk) Winter Hill's frequencies (well, channels - the N colums) are (ignore the 100/100 figures, Plus the two local MUXes on C56 and C57 (probably)?

bluepassat

20-09-20, 14:45

im not sure whats going on today as quest HD is now not working:mad:

also just reset my newest TV and it only scans upto channel 48 then its finished ???