View Full Version : Saorview Frequency Changes
Hello all,
Saorview in ROI are changing a number of their terrestrial Tv frequencies. Just wondering does anyone know if or when Auto Bouquet Maker will be updated to allow for these changes? There are going to be simulcasts with old and new frequencies, can ABM handle this?
Thanks in advance.
Following a decision by the EU, some of the TV broadcast spectrum that is used by Saorview is to be reallocated to other purposes. The spectrum that is being cleared is the 700 MHz frequency band. The Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment (DCCAE) has published information on its website detailing the parties responsible for the change which can be viewed here.
As a result of the 700 MHz migration some Saorview customers will be affected by the changes. The migration is taking place between Wednesday 4 September 2019 and Wednesday 4 March 2020, and Saorview will be providing information and advice to its viewers in order to ensure that they are aware of the migration and how the changes may affect them. Saorview customers can check to see if they will be affected by the changes by using this website or by contacting the Saorview team.
Many Saorview users will not be affected. But for those that are affected, they will need to retune their Saorview box or TV, and some customers may need to have some work done on their aerial and/or installation.
Maybe this thread will help.....
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59815-ABM-Frequency-Finder-Add-HD-channels-regions-UK-Terrestrial
abu baniaz
28-08-19, 19:56
ABM reads the SI tables and it inputs the details that are broadcast on the tables. The RoI is slightly different in that there is more usage of custom transponders to override/supplement data.
There is the frequency finder applet within ABM to make people self sufficient. The idea is that users share these so we can update the values that ABM ships with. There is also the Terrestrial scan plugin.
It will be dealt with like how the the UK migration was done. I hope you can appreciate the difference between
Enigma2 scan,
ABM scan, which I insist on saying "read"
Commercial TV scan
I get the bit about the manual frequency finder in ABM. I presume this will find other frequencies other than those in ABM associated with whichever region is selected. What I am wondering is will ABM be updated to reflect the new frequencies and going forward will it scan the new frequencies once a region is selected. On that subject, what will it do when both old and new frequencies are being simulcast for the duration of the switch over.
abu baniaz
28-08-19, 22:09
If you are trying to ask if changes will be added to ABM in advance, the answer is no. When users report the changes we will add them or if there is a definitive and correct list. (The government file for UK details is unreliable)
As I have already said, ABM reads the data. There should not be an issue if the data is correct and the "HOME frequncy" is the same. If the home frequency changes, the Frequency finder will sort it out for you.
OK thanks,I have the list of the frequency changes, let me know if you want a copy.
abu baniaz
28-08-19, 22:51
Post them please. Just to repeat, they won't be done in advance. We can commit on the day. Even better you can submit a pull request.
OK thanks,I have the list of the frequency changes, let me know if you want a copy.
Please post them here. I'm just back from holidays, so not up to speed just yet. I presume the Saorview changes will affect UHF channels 60-69? Probably just a reallocation of frequencies for some of the main and relays which can be updated in the lists. There is no automatic way for ABM to follow the frequency changes from the Saorview transmitters as the table data is the same for every transmitter instead of following the proper DVB standards.
I'll review the changes and add to the transmitter lists as they come on-stream. There is a period of co-existence of the old and new frequencies from September to March, but the old ones will be reduced in power by 3db so will be noticed by some users in marginal areas straight away.
In the meantime, if I run frequency finder in ABM, I presume if there are two sets of frequencies on air at the time that it will find the new and name it Kippure1 (assuming Kippure is already being used) So I then set Kippure1 as a provider in AMB. All good so far. ABM will scan Kippure1 as a provider. But what happens when the old frequencies are switched off and presumably the new provider name for Kippure reverts back from Kippure1 to Kippure???? Am I making sense?
abu baniaz
29-08-19, 15:53
I have already posted what to do when the changes happen. You don't need to do anything until you get tuning problems. It is a simple fix you can do yourself without having to wait for anyone.
I think my posts on the issue have been clear enough. If there is something not clear, please say what you understand, what you don't understand and we shall hopefully try and fill the gaps.
@kaysat - Frequency Finder won't work properly on the Saorview network. The issue is that all transmitters on Saorview use the same internal naming/numbering scheme for the pair of multiplexes. So, for example, if you look at the data transmitted from mux 1 on Kippure it will be exactly the same as the data from mux 1 on Three Rock. The exact same table information is presented. In the UK Freeview network the transmitters all use unique identifiers so ABM can identify that it has several variants and can present them to to the user to select the best one. In my particular circumstance my best transmitter is Greystones, Co Wicklow, but if I run a scan then Three Rock would be chosen as it occurs lower down in the frequency table, but has lower signal strength. I ran the ABM frequency finder and it finds the transmitters ok but names them 2RN 1 and 2RN 2 - so not very enlightening. It was because of this re-use of identical table data on the Saorview transmitters that I submitted the list of main and relay transmitters on a named geographical basis to abu for use in ABM in the first instance. I figured that a user in Ireland would know their local geographic location and transmitter and the data in ABM is hard-coded to reflect that. In the UK, once the main transmitter frequency is known, then ABM can tune it and follow the table information transmitted to find the other multiplexes automatically. In Ireland this is not possible due to the fixed nature of the table data. The tuning data will be updated in ABM as people report issues.
abu baniaz
29-08-19, 16:18
OK. When the changes happen, please post what needs changing or submit a pull request and we shall do it in a flash.
BTW, your summary is not fully correct for the UK.
Got that Tony, thank you. So just to be clear, if I scan using frequency finder in ABM (next week), and I find new frequencies, and I set ABM to scan these new frequencies, ABM will keep on scanning the new frequencies even after the old ones are shut down.
I have already posted what to do when the changes happen. You don't need to do anything until you get tuning problems. It is a simple fix you can do yourself without having to wait for anyone.
I think my posts on the issue have been clear enough. If there is something not clear, please say what you understand, what you don't understand and we shall hopefully try and fill the gaps.
I sent you a PM with link to that list.
Got that Tony, thank you. So just to be clear, if I scan using frequency finder in ABM (next week), and I find new frequencies, and I set ABM to scan these new frequencies, ABM will keep on scanning the new frequencies even after the old ones are shut down.
Basically yes. But the names ABM finds will be the same for every transmitter (2RN). It's already finding the new frequencies active in my local area (Greystones). Where are you located? You may not be affected at all if you live in Dublin.
...BTW, your summary is not fully correct for the UK.
Yes, I was sortof presenting the big picture view :p I know that some of the relays in the UK present their own set of problems. In the Saorview network, though, all the transmitters carry the same table info and thus are pretty useless for any sort of an automated solution. The commercial Saorview receivers mostly (always?) use a signal strength algorithm to determine which multiplexes to store during an auto scan.
I've updated the terrestrial.xml file with the new Saorview frequencies if anyone needs it. I actually lost service on the old frequencies back in September and I'm sure there are probably others in the same boat.
59375
@ronand - saw your post on GitHub (at least I assume you're ei4kn?). The Donegal transmitters were due to switch off in September - is that where you are? Here in Wicklow, the old and new frequencies are still operating together. I wasn't sure if all transmitters had been activated with the new frequencies. The ABM provider list will need to change but I'll wait until @abu requests and then I can do it (or you can if it's maintained on GitHub and you feel the need!). I put together the original master list of Saorview transmitters but I don't use GitHub :(
abu baniaz
25-10-19, 18:09
The terrestrial xml file has been updated via the pull request. People can update it using xml update function if they don't want to download and ftp it.
Please provide the ABM file when required. Better still, start using GitHub
@ronand - saw your post on GitHub (at least I assume you're ei4kn?). The Donegal transmitters were due to switch off in September - is that where you are? Here in Wicklow, the old and new frequencies are still operating together. I wasn't sure if all transmitters had been activated with the new frequencies. The ABM provider list will need to change but I'll wait until @abu requests and then I can do it (or you can if it's maintained on GitHub and you feel the need!). I put together the original master list of Saorview transmitters but I don't use GitHub :(
Yep that was me. I'm in Tipperary and get my signal from Kilduff. As far as I know all the new frequencies are in operation so there is no reason to stay on the old ones.
Hi @ronand (and abu) - I've updated the ABM provider files for Saorview in attached zip file. abu - can you update the providers master list please? I've just added "_700mhz" to the end of each filename to distinguish from existing files. You can rename as necessary.
ronand - I noticed one discrepancy when I cross-checked with your terrestrial.xml file. The Clifden, Galway transmitter second multiplex is UHF Channel 23 (490MHz) - your entry has 570MHz. There are also two new transmitters in the updated list which you should add. These are Drogheda, Louth on Channel 22 and 25 and Wicklow, Wicklow on Channel 22 and 25.
Hi @ronand (and abu) - I've updated the ABM provider files for Saorview in attached zip file. abu - can you update the providers master list please? I've just added "_700mhz" to the end of each filename to distinguish from existing files. You can rename as necessary.
ronand - I noticed one discrepancy when I cross-checked with your terrestrial.xml file. The Clifden, Galway transmitter second multiplex is UHF Channel 23 (490MHz) - your entry has 570MHz. There are also two new transmitters in the updated list which you should add. These are Drogheda, Louth on Channel 22 and 25 and Wicklow, Wicklow on Channel 22 and 25.
Thanks Tony - I'll amend the xml shortly.
abu baniaz
28-10-19, 18:33
Terrestrial xml updated
https://github.com/oe-alliance/oe-alliance-tuxbox-common/commit/f7b2ba6ad32e2889bd37d7475ff954353d42f3f2
abu baniaz
28-10-19, 18:39
ABM update here
https://github.com/oe-alliance/AutoBouquetsMaker/commit/6e4980873bd320eaead8d7b69b6308bcab86091d
I don't suppose you know what the location of this file is if I want to FTP it directly to my box?
ABM update here
https://github.com/oe-alliance/AutoBouquetsMaker/commit/6e4980873bd320eaead8d7b69b6308bcab86091d
I don't suppose you know what the location of this file is if I want to FTP it directly to my box?
Sorry wrong quote. Please ignore.
Terrestrial xml updated
https://github.com/oe-alliance/oe-alliance-tuxbox-common/commit/f7b2ba6ad32e2889bd37d7475ff954353d42f3f2
I don't suppose you know what the location of this file is if I want to FTP it directly to my box?
abu baniaz
10-03-20, 23:42
Just update it using the function in the ABM menu.
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/SystemPlugins/AutoBouquetsMaker/providers
Just update it using the function in the ABM menu.
/usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/SystemPlugins/AutoBouquetsMaker/providers
Thank you very much.
Sorry - only spotting this now, but @abu covered it. The providers files were updated last September in prep for these changes. My local transmitter in Wicklow just switched off the old frequencies recently after 6 months of running old and new together.
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