View Full Version : Motorised dish, two rooms, recommendations for cabling/receivers
We recently moved into a new house (Shropshire).
At my previous property, I had a fixed dish fitted with 3 LNBs covering Hotbird, Astra 1 and 2, with dual-feed cables feeding a Freesat TV and and a Technomate 7102 receiver.
Here, I would like to fit a motorised dish to enable me to catch satellites from 5.0W through to around 32.5E. I understand it is better to use a single LNB on motorised dishes but I would like to run dual feeds to the Freesat TV and TM receiver in one room and another set in another room (so an Octo LNB?)
This house has TV wall sockets in several rooms, fed from a loft-fitted powered distribution box with cables within the walls. I'd prefer not to have to chase out new walls and there are solid floors so running cables slightly tricky!
I need advice on how best to cable to the second room, via separate cable/receiver, or a satellite out on the Technomate (if it could use the existing TV cable route, that would be great - can you diplex over TV cabling?). I understand that second receiver may only be able to show a channel from the orientation/transponder selected in the main room.
I reconnected the TM box this evening (so we can watch Terrestrial HD and the recordings we've made - separate post!). It's making a buzzing noise, I think from the PSU/transformer board. Possibly it's on its way out (a shame as I have several cleared/patched European channels available on it), unless this is a simple fix. In this case, I'd probably replace it with a current Linux-based box. Happy though to take recommendations on suitable equipment.
I have been in contact with a local installer but after mulling it over he tells me this isn't really his area of expertise! Plenty of experts here though!
abu baniaz
13-09-18, 00:45
Motorised dishes are designed for one controlling receiver. Connecting a motorised setup to two receivers is going to be hit and miss and likely to cause confusion. It is possible though.
What quality cable is used?
Do you have network cables to all rooms that will have a receiver?
Motorised dishes are designed for one controlling receiver. Connecting a motorised setup to two receivers is going to be hit and miss and likely to cause confusion. It is possible though.
What quality cable is used?
Do you have network cables to all rooms that will have a receiver?
Hi. Existing cable looks like decent RF/UHF coax. Presented to wall sockets. No network cabling unfortunately- so also looking for Wi-fi extender for 77mb fibre broadband!
abu baniaz
13-09-18, 01:53
Without extra wiring you are severely snookered. Is running cables along outside a possibility?
An option is a having a linux receiver. Have two dishes. One with a unicable LNB pointed at 28.2. This can go to the loft and supply multiple receivers using the existing cabling. The other dish to be motorised.
Main receiver: Have two satellite signal cables.
Second receiver: Use 28.2 via unicable. Other sats to be via remote stream converter. If you cannot run network cables, use home plugs.
Just to add - if the existing cable is standard UHF TV cable, then it's unlikely to be suitable for satellite signals. At a minimum you need double-screened low-loss cable like RG6 or better. Abu's suggestion is a better all-round solution. I have a motorised set-up using a twin LNB, one cable going to the controlling receiver, the other going to a PC tuner where I can route output over the LAN to other outlets if needed. Putting an octo LNB (with its associated cables) onto the end of the arm of a motorised dish may be asking too much with regard to accurate focusing of the signal.
I did something similar once a while back.
Octo lnb with 4 cables going to multiswitch in the loft and 1 cable going straight to receiver that controls the dish. (Via the dish motor of course).
Hi. Existing cable looks like decent RF/UHF coax.
For information, ideally you need the type A or type B type cable mentioned in the following article. The article is over a decade old so prices of cabe are somewhat out-of-date.
http://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/articles/coax-cable-quality.shtml
Without extra wiring you are severely snookered. Is running cables along outside a possibility?
An option is a having a linux receiver. Have two dishes. One with a unicable LNB pointed at 28.2. This can go to the loft and supply multiple receivers using the existing cabling. The other dish to be motorised.
Main receiver: Have two satellite signal cables.
Second receiver: Use 28.2 via unicable. Other sats to be via remote stream converter. If you cannot run network cables, use home plugs.
Hi - yes, there is a possibility to run the cables down from the dish - 2 to the main receiver in through one hole in the wall, run 2nd pair (or maybe even just a single - it would mainly be for radio broadcasts) along outside and in through hole in wall into second room.
I'm not sure I follow the 2 dishes option - the unicable 28.2 is providing UK TV, right? How does the connection then interface with the aerial distributor in the loft - a diplexer type thing? Is that what the remote stream converter is (someone later says coax cable doesn't work for satellite signals)?
Not sure home plugs is viable as the ground floor is on at least 2 maybe 3 separate mains circuits and I thought home plugs had to be on the same circuit to operate... The broadband master in socket is in the same room as the main satellite box will be. Strong signal up and along 2 rooms but needs a boost for office (second receiver location) and upstairs bedroom at other end of house. I was thinking of something like Netgear Urbi or Google Home Mesh satellite APs. As I have the speed, would be a shame not to have it available everywhere!
This is becoming a bigger project than I thought! Maybe I should focus on the main box and consider internet radio instead of the second box!
Just to add - if the existing cable is standard UHF TV cable, then it's unlikely to be suitable for satellite signals. At a minimum you need double-screened low-loss cable like RG6 or better. Abu's suggestion is a better all-round solution. I have a motorised set-up using a twin LNB, one cable going to the controlling receiver, the other going to a PC tuner where I can route output over the LAN to other outlets if needed. Putting an octo LNB (with its associated cables) onto the end of the arm of a motorised dish may be asking too much with regard to accurate focusing of the signal.
Just to add - if the existing cable is standard UHF TV cable, then it's unlikely to be suitable for satellite signals. At a minimum you need double-screened low-loss cable like RG6 or better. Abu's suggestion is a better all-round solution. I have a motorised set-up using a twin LNB, one cable going to the controlling receiver, the other going to a PC tuner where I can route output over the LAN to other outlets if needed. Putting an octo LNB (with its associated cables) onto the end of the arm of a motorised dish may be asking too much with regard to accurate focusing of the signal.
Hi - referred to your cable comment in reply to previous post.
Yes, I know about the quality of decent satellite cable - I had imagined, once it's in the loft, there would need to be some kind interface to 'convert' from the satellite feed onto the coax cabling but maybe I was mistaken! I probably need to look more closely at the box up there to see what vacant sockets, if any, there are!
Tell me more about the PC tuner for the second feed - that could be useful as I record then edit on computer (currently copy the files off the Technomate on USB). Used to have a simple Elgato/WinTV stick (terrestrial) years ago. How do you route over the LAN?
Off-the-cuff thinking: could I pick up audio and/or video on an iPad off the LAN and use a Chrome dongle to present to the TV/stereo, for example (in the way I watch live streams on the TV, using Apple TV)?
It's the weight/bulk of an octo LNB + cables that prejudice a motorised dish?
Technology and practice has evidently moved along since I set up my last system and I've learning a lot quite fast! Also, finding a good technical installer in the country is proving tricky!
I did something similar once a while back.
Octo lnb with 4 cables going to multiswitch in the loft and 1 cable going straight to receiver that controls the dish. (Via the dish motor of course).
Hi - thanks. Multiswitch...? Does that manage the junction between the feed from the dish and the existing TV cabling? OR is it a separate satellite set of cabling being switched in the loft?
As I explained, my cabling is all in the walls so running new cables internally is tricky. I could, as mentioned earlier, run cables from the dish around the outside of the house.
For information, ideally you need the type A or type B type cable mentioned in the following article. The article is over a decade old so prices of cabe are somewhat out-of-date.
http://www.wrightsaerials.co.uk/articles/coax-cable-quality.shtml
Thanks - yes, remember the quality needed from my original installation back in London. It was much higher grade than used for regular Sky installs for example.
abu baniaz
13-09-18, 21:41
You don't need a PC. That is just Fat-Tony's setup.
You can stream the from your receiver/s to a phone/tablet/Kodi device or another receiver.
You don't need a PC. That is just Fat-Tony's setup.
You can stream the from your receiver/s to a phone/tablet/Kodi device or another receiver.
Ah - direct from a Linux box onto the network... ? Paradigm shift / breakthrough :-)
OK, can I test this flow?
Dish
>Dual/triple feed to a new Linux box in main room (only) - watch/record
>Linux box onto network either via network cable or wifi (built in or dongle?)
Once signal on network
>Pick up signal on phone/tablet and cast to TV or stereo system in other room(s) using Chrome dongle
>Pick up signal on computer to record/capture (for edit - obviating need to copy from sat receiver)
So if this is workable, I have no need to cable the dish to anything other than the main receiver. Limitation would be any viewing/listening of subsidiary channels can only be on transponders and orientation that are within the same set as the primary channel on the main receiver.
Am I making progress?! For a receiver is Mutant HD51 an obvious choice? How does that differ from, say, an Octagon SX88+ - is it that the Mutant is a full Linux box and the Octagon more purely a receiver, without the flexibility of the computer internals?
abu baniaz
13-09-18, 22:58
Wi-Fi may be an issue. Home plugs are second best. Hard wired is best. Anybody thinking about doing up their house should factor this into the works.
I don't know about using a Chromecast device, but worth a shot. If it does not work, get a cheap second receiver which you can use in client mode. You will only be limited to transponder if dish/tuner are occupied/maxed out.
I would go for follwoing setup:
Gigablue UHD UE 4K. It has an FBC tuner whihc has two connections. Add a twin Terrestrial tuner.
Two dishes. One motorised, one fixed with a unicable LNB
I wouldn't stream to PC and record to PC. Just use the main receiver to record. Transfer it for editing when required.
As @abu says - the PC is just my particular setup. I just use it to stream to a Samsung TV. It supports DLNA so it appears to the TV as a media centre. The simpler option is what @abu is suggesting - use a main receiver to actually receive and/or record sat and terrestrial programmes. Use other receivers via CAT5 cable, or homeplugs or WiFi to accept a stream from the main receiver. I can stream SD over WiFi pretty successfully from the receiver I have in the bedroom which is connected to the motorised dish. HD not so good as the distance from my WiFi router limits the connection speed and stability. Longer term plan is to run some CAT5 to the bedroom! The tuner in the PC gives me a solid HD connection, though, as it's on the wired LAN. The only reason I have a PC tuner is that I bought it for experimentation about 15 years ago - before the advent of cheap linux boxes!
As regards the TV cabling - it's not the physical connection that is the problem as you can generally find F plugs to fit, but the higher frequencies used in the downfeed from the LNBs can be attenuated or other signals can leak into (or out of) the cable. If you have DECT phones in the house the signals can affect certain channels if the cable is not shielded properly.
Re: Octo-LNB and motorised dish,
"In order to satisfy all users of the system the dish must remain permanently orientated to the one satellite that all the users wish to receive programing from. If the dish were to move from its permanent orientation this would disturb the viewing of all users of the system.
A motorised dish, on the other hand, allows a single user to orientate the dish at will and access broadcasts from many satellites right across the geostationary arc. Because he is the sole user of the system the continual reorientation of the dish as he moves from one satellite to another will not disturb the viewing of other users as there aren't any.
Trying to mix these two technologies will only end up producing unsatisfactory results. When multiple users (or multiple tuners) need to access more than one satellite the correct hardware to use is a permanently orientated dish with multiple LNBs or multiple dishes. This will ensure the viewing of one user does not disturb the viewing of other users of the system and also zapping will be instantaneous."
Re: Octo-LNB and motorised dish,
"In order to satisfy all users of the system the dish must remain permanently orientated to the one satellite that all the users wish to receive programing from. If the dish were to move from its permanent orientation this would disturb the viewing of all users of the system.
A motorised dish, on the other hand, allows a single user to orientate the dish at will and access broadcasts from many satellites right across the geostationary arc. Because he is the sole user of the system the continual reorientation of the dish as he moves from one satellite to another will not disturb the viewing of other users as there aren't any.
Trying to mix these two technologies will only end up producing unsatisfactory results. When multiple users (or multiple tuners) need to access more than one satellite the correct hardware to use is a permanently orientated dish with multiple LNBs or multiple dishes. This will ensure the viewing of one user does not disturb the viewing of other users of the system and also zapping will be instantaneous."
Don't have a problem with this. I'm primary viewer/listener of the satellite stations. My better half watches mainly UK TV which we have on Freeview/NowTV. A multiple LNB setup (as I had at our last house) limits me to 3 satellites and I'm quite keen to expand the range beyond the selection available on a fixed dish (say Thor 5W and Astra 2 28E or beyond).
Though I see the reasons for 2 dishes, it's not very aesthetic outside. Now I know I can network from a Linux box and pick up the networked signal on a 2nd receiver or phone/tablet/computer, I think the cabling to other room(s) is sorted as I'll have a network point in most rooms - either wifi or a nearly access point and switch for a cabled connection.
I've got 17 satellites on my multi-sat system so I don't know why you think 3 is the limit.
Not sure what you mean about aesthetics. Just put the dishes in hidden locations if seeing them bothers you. Obviously hanging them up as high as possible is going to draw attention to them.
I've got 17 satellites on my multi-sat system so I don't know why you think 3 is the limit.
Not sure what you mean about aesthetics. Just put the dishes in hidden locations if seeing them bothers you. Obviously hanging them up as high as possible is going to draw attention to them.
Maybe I didn't express myself too well. In our last house I had a dish with 3 LNBs set to Hotbird, Astra 1, Astra 2. 3 satellite limit - I could watch/record channels from any of the 3 satellites or terrestrial at a time (my receiver has 2 tuners). My intention at our new house is to have a motorised dish to pull in channels from, say 5W Thor round to 32.5E Hispasat.
I'm told on a motorised dish, it's best to stick to a single LNB so the focus is precise (the multiple LNBs are always a slight alignment compromise). So here I will have, say 30 satellites available but (on the Technomate at least, I think), I can watch/record only a limited range of channels from the same transponder/polarisation group at one time. I believe on a new Linux machine, I can have a full selection from whichever satellite I am positioned on, I think.
So I can see why you say better to have multiple dishes. What did I mean by aesthetics? If you read my earlier replies, you can see I am living in quite a picturesque place. I don't want to mar the appearance of my house (for myself or my neighbours) with a multiple dish array. A dish up on the chimney is one thing, using it as a 'transmitter mast' not quite the same!
When you say they can be hidden - shallow roof so don't think a 90/100cm dish would stand up in the loft, even if it would work behind a wall: thought they needed clear line of site?
There are also other local planning laws to consider. Where I live (Ireland East coast) the local recent by-laws allow one satellite dish only and should not be on the front of the house. I actually have two (one motorised, one fixed) but they are on the back of the house and I've had them for 15 years or more. Neighbours haven't complained either... I've also got ADSB antenna and vertical VHF/UHF antenna, but technically I'm outside the law:eek:
You do need line of sight with a dish, so you can't mount it in an attic/loft. You could hide it behind a roof line so it couldn't be seen from the front of the house. You mentioned a chimney mount - I'd suggest that this would not be suitable for a 90/100cm dish, especially with a motorised setup, due to wind load. I see a lot of SKY installs in my area where they are attached to chimneys, but I don't think it's a good idea.
Got 6 dishes here. But only one on the house.
Anyway what I mean is a dish is pointing at the sky. Normally there is no need to mount it high up.
There are also other local planning laws to consider. Where I live (Ireland East coast) the local recent by-laws allow one satellite dish only and should not be on the front of the house. I actually have two (one motorised, one fixed) but they are on the back of the house and I've had them for 15 years or more. Neighbours haven't complained either... I've also got ADSB antenna and vertical VHF/UHF antenna, but technically I'm outside the law:eek:
You do need line of sight with a dish, so you can't mount it in an attic/loft. You could hide it behind a roof line so it couldn't be seen from the front of the house. You mentioned a chimney mount - I'd suggest that this would not be suitable for a 90/100cm dish, especially with a motorised setup, due to wind load. I see a lot of SKY installs in my area where they are attached to chimneys, but I don't think it's a good idea.
Hi
Yes, understand planning laws - not an issue here.
There's a tall and solid chimney stack coming up from a fireplace at the end of the (modern) house (wall/chimney faces South, so good for motorised directionality) - it's not an old rooftop stack. I wouldn't think there is a huge difference in mounting on here or adjacent to it high up on the same end wall, is there?
To answer Huevos also I think I can only get clear line of sight to satellite band if the dish is high up, otherwise fences, walls, plants etc would be in front of it.
Can anyone recommend a good longlife dish and quality LNB - Technomate, Triax - my dish in London was a Cahor Visiosat Bisat 75 cm. I see they do a fibreglass version. Is 75cm big enough for Shropshire or do I need to size up?
To answer Huevos also I think I can only get clear line of sight to satellite band if the dish is high up, otherwise fences, walls, plants etc would be in front of it.Get an AR app for your mobile and check.
Andy_Hazza
16-09-18, 07:55
I would size up. Technomate are excellent dishes. Something like this from WoS >> https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/Satallite-Dishes/Technomate-Satellite-Dishes/Technomate-97cm-motorised-mesh-satellite-dish-pack
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would size up. Technomate are excellent dishes. Something like this from WoS >> https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/Satallite-Dishes/Technomate-Satellite-Dishes/Technomate-97cm-motorised-mesh-satellite-dish-pack
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks Andy - yes, others have also suggested a size up. Is a fibreglass dish likely to last longer than a mesh one (we're in quite an exposed position). Or do you recommend a mesh one because it would be lighter?
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