View Full Version : Terrestrial picture randomly breaking up - reboot receiver fixes it
Stuey2017a
26-09-17, 12:58
Hello all,
I recently purchased an "OCTAGON SF4008 4K UHD 2160p Linux Enigma 2 Receiver 2x Hybrid DVB-C/T/T2 Tuners 1x Satellite DVB-S/S2/S2X" but am frequently getting the picture breaking up from the Terrestrial tuners. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any sequence or time when this happens and is totally intermittant and random. When this issue happens - picture breaking up - if I restart the Octagon receiver it solves the issue and on restart the picture is fine. I have factory reset and flashed the Receiver with various OpenATV images; but the issue still exists.
As some background, the DVB-T twin tuner is installed into Slot 1 of the Receiver (as was purchased this way) and I have a coaxial line from my main house aerial into the RF In port on the back of the Receiver and another coax cable from the RF Out port of the Receiver into the television. I have not enabled/configured the DVB-S2 yet as wanted to fix the FreeView / picture breaking up issue.
The Tuner Configuration is set to:
. Tuner A: DVB-T2 / Provider: Sandy Heath (Europe DVB-T/T2)
. Tuner B: DVB-T2 / Provider: Sandy Heath (Europe DVB-T/T2)
. Tuner C: not configured
I have performed both an automatic and manual scan against the relevant Transmitter for my area (Sandy Heath) as well as other nearby Transmitters (e.g. Sutton Coldfield, Waltham) and the "services" or channels the Tuner detects have a SNR of 99% and the picture is perfect. I have no additional plugins installed and as mentioned previously have flashed the Receiver to various nightly builds of OpenATV as well as trying both OpenATV version 6.0 and the later 6.1 releases (again various nightly builds of each release).
However, hours or days later - I cannot predict or see a pattern as to when the issue occurs - I turn on the Receiver (it is only placed into Standby mode and not Deep Standby) or start watching a previously recorded program and then when I go to view a channel the picture is breaking up and jittery and/or freezes. A reboot of the Receiver fixes the freezing and on reboot the picture again is perfect.
As a test I have previously configured the Tuner C/DVB-S2 and the issue has occurred with that configuration, however it was again only the Terrestrial (FreeView UK) channels affected by the breaking up picture and the FreeSat pictures were unaffected. I have now removed the DVB-S2 cable and setup; to narrow down the terrestrial/tuner issue.
I have enabled "debug logging" (via OpenATV - Menu - Setup - System - Log Settings), but see nothing obvious in the logs of anything wrong.
Has anyone ever come across such an issue or has some idea on what I can do to fix it; its a great Receiver but this picture breaking up issue is frustrating me. As a side, I used to have a Humax PVR and the picture never broke up on that or on the tv; so points to Octagon Receiver or OpenATV image issue?
Thanks in advance
Stuart
abu baniaz
26-09-17, 13:07
You should only scan the mast your aerial is pointing towards.
Stuey2017a
26-09-17, 13:10
Thanks Abu for your comment, not entirely sure what you mean by that .. you saying I shouldn't direct the Tuners to the Sandy Heath transmitter but to a more generic one?
My aerial is set for Sandy Heath and as mentioned the picture is perfect on the tv and on another old Humax PVR based on the aerial location.
You should only scan the mast your aerial is pointing towards.
abu baniaz
26-09-17, 13:22
I have performed both an automatic and manual scan against the relevant Transmitter for my area (Sandy Heath) as well as other nearby Transmitters (e.g. Sutton Coldfield, Waltham)
If your aerial is pointed towards Sandy Heath, you must just scan Sandy Heath, not the neighbouring areas. I suggest you manually scan the individual frequencies for sandy heath again.
Stuey2017a
26-09-17, 13:37
Thanks Abu, sorry I should have made myself clear .. I have already done that and just scanned Sandy Heath (I mentioned the others as a test to see if it was the Sandy Heath transmitter issue). As I say the scanning works and the picture quality is perfect; just day later it freezes and I need to reboot receiver to fix.
Is it a tuner issue or a connection issue between the box and the TV? What are the AV settings on the box?
Stuey2017a
26-09-17, 13:43
I believe it is a tuner issue as the picture on the tv at the time the receiver picture breaks, is fine. Also if I have the DVB-S2 configured that channels/services picture is perfect too and just the DVB-T related picture breaks and freezes.
AV settings are: HMDI, 1080p, 50HMz (have tried others e.g. 60HMz and auto, but still same issue on the terrestrial channels).
I'd try 1080i, and see how it goes.
Stuey2017a
26-09-17, 13:55
Thanks ccc .. I will set that later and try .. as I say it could be a day or more before the issue re-occurs, but I will update you with my findings ..
.. thanks again
Just to add I have exactly the same box as the op 2*hybrid 1*sat which I bought last week from the forum sponsor.
I also came from a toppy background (although I've another e2 just for sat elsewhere)
I get the massive picture breakup, moving the aerial from the sf4008 directly to the TV shows no problems, moving back to the sf4008 and problem are instantly there.
Reboot makes the problem go away for a [random] period of time.
I don't see any temperature readings or fan control on this box, could that be a contributing factor???
Running openvix .27
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There's a driver fix in the next release of ViX, "tuner A - recording, tuner C live pixeling", it may need a bit of translating, but is this a possibility?
There's a driver fix in the next release of ViX, "tuner A - recording, tuner C live pixeling", it may need a bit of translating, but is this a possibility?Oh yes, I get pixelation (much less frequently) on the dvb-s, that could help.
I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing issues, happy to plod along at the bleeding edge.
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Tonight it seems that the dvb-t issues are on tuner a, if I can force tuner b, then there are no issues???
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Stuey2017a
27-09-17, 09:03
I changed the resolution to 1080i and the issue reoccurred again last night.
I did notice when it happened last night that a scheduled/timed recording was kicked off, during the recording the picture on the channels on the same multiplex/transponder also exhibited picture breaking up. After the recording had finsished (I let the recording complete to see if it cleared itself) but the issue still remained. I did a "Restart GUI" to see if that helped but that made little difference and other channels on other multiplexes/transponders had the breaking picture issue. Again restarting the receiver fixed the issue. A point to note, during all the picture breaking issues (as seen viewing channels via the Octagon Receiver), if I viewed the tv picture it was perfect, so definitely a physical ltuner or openatv config issue.... would be good to know what is causing this, let alone knowing the fix :) ...???
Tonight it seems that the dvb-t issues are on tuner a, if I can force tuner b, then there are no issues???
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkI can confirm that disabling tuner a resolves the problem.
So there's either a hardware or software issue with tuner a (for those that don't know, tuner a and b share the same single physical dvb-t aerial cable, no splitter / duplicator)
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What happens if you disconnect the tuner RF out connection to the tv?
Stuey2017a
27-09-17, 14:22
I will try this later and let you know .. will test it once the issue has reoccurred.
thanks again for the help.
What happens if you disconnect the tuner RF out connection to the tv?I only have the RF connected to the sf4008, I don't have a secondary cable (other than HDMI)
Maybe indicate who your question is directed to?
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I only have the RF connected to the sf4008, I don't have a secondary cable (other than HDMI)
Maybe indicate who your question is directed to?.... the OP who had said that RF out was connected to his tv.
Stuey2017a
27-09-17, 15:29
Thanks ccs, as mentioned I will try this later and let you know..
Stuey2017a
27-09-17, 20:08
Just happened again, I removed the coax from the RF Out to the TV, but no difference. I have scheduled another recording (same multiplex/channel) to see if I can force the issue to occur.
Any other ideas or suggestion will be most welcome :)
Just happened again, I removed the coax from the RF Out to the TV, but no difference. I have scheduled another recording (same multiplex/channel) to see if I can force the issue to occur.
Any other ideas or suggestion will be most welcome :)For me tuner a causes the problem, I've disabled it forcing b and had no issues. I've now re-enabled but have tuner b set as priority for recordings.
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Stuey2017a
27-09-17, 21:03
Thanks goRT, I will try that later. If it is Tuner A issue, that mean its a Physical Tuner/card issue right (and for me to contact WoS to see if I can get it replaced)?
Thanks goRT, I will try that later. If it is Tuner A issue, that mean its a Physical Tuner/card issue right (and for me to contact WoS to see if I can get it replaced)?I can't say if it's hardware or software. Earlier posts indicated dvb-s becoming pixelated on recordings (which I notice)
It's not clear in my mind, but the box is new and there's lots of work going g on.
When I get internet installed on Friday I may test openatv which is under more active development.
Wos will have mine back too if this is hardware.
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If there's anyone with the same setup running an older version of vix which is working ok it would be helpful to know.
ive the same issue on mine & im using a twin dvb c tuner only, im going to try disabling my dvb s tuner & see if this helps or cures this.
ive the same issue on mine & im using a twin dvb c tuner only, im going to try disabling my dvb s tuner & see if this helps or cures this.For me it's the first hybrid that causes the issue. Sat recording causes very minor pixelation on the dvb-t part.
Good to know others are experiencing the same issue, what is are you running?
Thanks
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This has to be a driver issue thats crept it. New image will be built next week with latest drivers.
In the mean time can one of you guys test an earlier image build: http://www.openvix.co.uk/index.php/downloads/octagon-images/sf4008/
Also send reports of your issue to:
support@octagon-germany.de
I've reported this thread to them.
This has to be a driver issue thats crept it. New image will be built next week with latest drivers.
In the mean time can one of you guys test an earlier image build: http://www.openvix.co.uk/index.php/downloads/octagon-images/sf4008/
Also send reports of your issue to:
support@octagon-germany.de
I've reported this thread to them.I can test earlier builds after the internet arrives on Friday if no one else has by then.
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I can test earlier builds after the internet arrives on Friday if no one else has by then.
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Internet is not needed, tests like this should be done on free to air channels only.
Internet is not needed, tests like this should be done on free to air channels only.
Downloading the software to flash is a bit awkward without an internet connection ;-)
I'll go to Mcd's for you!
Ok understand. Mis understood.
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Ok understand. Mis understood.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIs there a specific version you want me to test?
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Try release 5.0.016. June there was a tuner driver update. https://github.com/oe-alliance/oe-alliance-core/commits/4.0/meta-brands/meta-octagon/recipes-drivers
I'm using a SF4008 with 1x Twin sat tuner and not seen an issues, but then my box has been setup with fallback tuner to another box. I've now disabled fallback. Box will be left on constant to see if i can replicate this.
Stuey2017a
28-09-17, 09:14
Thats one of the main problems I've got, I cannot seem to be able to reproduce the issue on a constant basis. It seems to be around a timed recording and I've tried recording the same mutliplex/channel where alot of the time the issue occurs, but then works fine.
Is there a way I can enable detailed logging on the receiver (I've enabled "debug logging": OpenATV - Menu - Setup - System - Log Settings), but see nothing in the /home/root/logs or /var/log side.
Try release 5.0.016. June there was a tuner driver update. https://github.com/oe-alliance/oe-alliance-core/commits/4.0/meta-brands/meta-octagon/recipes-drivers
I'm using a SF4008 with 1x Twin sat tuner and not seen an issues, but then my box has been setup with fallback tuner to another box. I've now disabled fallback. Box will be left on constant to see if i can replicate this.Fails on .26
Off to get .16 :-(
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Thats one of the main problems I've got, I cannot seem to be able to reproduce the issue on a constant basis. It seems to be around a timed recording and I've tried recording the same mutliplex/channel where alot of the time the issue occurs, but then works fine.
Is there a way I can enable detailed logging on the receiver (I've enabled "debug logging": OpenATV - Menu - Setup - System - Log Settings), but see nothing in the /home/root/logs or /var/log side.Very easy to reproduce - disable tuner b and force tuner a - failure. Disable a and force b - no issue.
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Stuey2017a
28-09-17, 09:53
Thanks goRT, as I say I can't reproduce it consistantly, sometimes it records and wors fine on Tuner A sometimes not.
I will force it all onto Tuner B to see if that makes a difference.
Try release 5.0.016. June there was a tuner driver update. https://github.com/oe-alliance/oe-alliance-core/commits/4.0/meta-brands/meta-octagon/recipes-drivers
I'm using a SF4008 with 1x Twin sat tuner and not seen an issues, but then my box has been setup with fallback tuner to another box. I've now disabled fallback. Box will be left on constant to see if i can replicate this.I'm same failure on .16
Just to clarify, this is the twin hybrid dvb-t failing on tuner a. I'm not focused on the minor dvb-s which you refer to.
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I'm same failure on .16
Just to clarify, this is the twin hybrid dvb-t failing on tuner a. I'm not focused on the minor dvb-s which you refer to.
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkDriver date 17-5-17
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I'm same failure on .16
Just to clarify, this is the twin hybrid dvb-t failing on tuner a. I'm not focused on the minor dvb-s which you refer to.
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How exactly are you testing? Dont use ABM for to test. Do a manual scan.
Automatic scan based on hannington.
Disable tuners via setup/tuner config/tuner setup - alternatively start a recording on turner a and then select another channel which forces tuner b
a - Si21682
b - Si21682
c - Si21662
Automatic scan based on hannington.
Disable tuners via setup/tuner config/tuner setup - alternatively start a recording on turner a and then select another channel which forces tuner b
a - Si21682
b - Si21682
c - Si21662
Do a manual scan..... select the tuner top of screen then set to complete.
Do a manual scan..... select the tuner top of screen then set to complete.Ok, that seems stable at the moment (it failed very quickly previously).
I'll conduct more extensive testing and revert.
Thanks for your efforts.
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Stuey2017a
28-09-17, 11:42
@ goRT - when you say its stable, you using OpenVix or OpenATV? and what version?
@ goRT - when you say its stable, you using OpenVix or OpenATV? and what version?Openvix .27 - .16 was no better and the menus are all different.
atv would be tomorrow's test, but if this is stable I'm not going to change for the sake of it.
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Well that's about an hour now, recording in 2 tuners, switching channels on the third (also swapping which tuner is spare) hasn't produced any issues.
Looks to be a simple fix, thanks again to wos for a great product and support to match.
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Stuey2017a
28-09-17, 12:30
So the fix in your instance was to go to OpenVix versin 26 and manual scan.
I'm on OpenATV 6.1 and latest nightly build and manual scan, but still issue randonly happens .. will download latest OpenVix in next day or two and try that image/app.
... OpenATV nightly builds will (almost certainly) have different drivers to ViX, so will probably exhibit different results.
So the fix in your instance was to go to OpenVix versin 26 and manual scan.
I'm on OpenATV 6.1 and latest nightly build and manual scan, but still issue randonly happens .. will download latest OpenVix in next day or two and try that image/app.Correct, manual scan only on the tuner demonstrating the issue.
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Stuey2017a
28-09-17, 13:29
goRT, is there any chance you could test this on OpenATV too, just to make sure its not that app.. no worries if not..
goRT, is there any chance you could test this on OpenATV too, just to make sure its not that app.. no worries if not..That will have to be tomorrow PM
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I'm away for a few days, when I get back I'll look closer into this. Recent seen a couple of strange issues when using ABM with C/T2 tuners.
Sat tuners still all fine here. I'll leave box on while im away too.
. Recent seen a couple of strange issues when using ABM with C/T2 tuners.
Sat tuners still all fine here. I'll leave box on while im away too.
I was going to start a thread tomorrow regarding my ABM issues using VU+ Uno4k with FBC cable tuner but since you mentioned that I thought I would post here to see if this is one of the issues you have seen. When ABM scans it scans and says video service 0 radio services 0 with no errors then I loose all my bouquets and end up having to reflash a backup, Manual scan seems to work so im not sure what the issue is.
I work nights so ill start a new thread tomorrow with logs I just wasn't sure if that is one of the issues you mentioned so I thought I would mention it sorry if its irrelevant to your post and sorry to the op for going off topic thanks.
Stuey2017a
28-09-17, 16:00
Great, thanks goRt
That will have to be tomorrow PM
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For me it's the first hybrid that causes the issue. Sat recording causes very minor pixelation on the dvb-t part.
Good to know others are experiencing the same issue, what is are you running?
Thanks
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im on the latest version of vix v27 & the latest offical release of oscam direct off the oscam site & ive 2x cable feeds using separate outputs on the offical virgin splitter
Stuey2017a
29-09-17, 09:53
As an update ... issue has reoccurred again last night during a recording on Tuner a.
In th enext day or day I will factory reset the box apply latest nightly build and manually setup the receiver (not from backup settings); just to see if I've intoduced something somewhere. If that doesn't work, I'll try OpenVix
That will have to be tomorrow PM
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkOk, so I've tested last night's atv nightly and have the same issue with tuner a.
I tried several manual retunes without any benefit.
Worse when I've gone back to openvix (either a restore or new build) tuner a will not come good no matter how many manual retunes I perform!
Not sure what to do now, other than wait for inspiration when wos returns :-(
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Stuey2017a
29-09-17, 12:42
@goRt .. ah sorry man for getting you in that situation; although does seem to indicate a problem with the OpenATV build as apposed to physical tuner issue..
.. as for the OpenVix tuner A issue you now have, is that on the same version you used prior to the OpenATV test? Sorry I can't be more help with OpenVix :(
@goRt .. ah sorry man for getting you in that situation; although does seem to indicate a problem with the OpenATV build as apposed to physical tuner issue..
.. as for the OpenVix tuner A issue you now have, is that on the same version you used prior to the OpenATV test? Sorry I can't be more help with OpenVix :(Hi, no worries if I can add data that allows this to be resolved then that's good for all of us, I just disable tuner a which I can work round.
Just for clarity I'm using Vic .27 which was the version that I got working yesterday.
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Stuey2017a
30-09-17, 11:02
As an update, I performed a fresh install (latest build) and manual scan (as usual) and last more than 20 hours but then all my HD channels have broken up .. and again the reboot fixed the issue.
Stuey2017a
03-10-17, 14:37
Issue still persisting .. today all channels were breakign up (and nothing had been recording or had recorded in over 12+ hours) .. will call WoS.
Issue still persisting .. today all channels were breakign up (and nothing had been recording or had recorded in over 12+ hours) .. will call WoS.Bizzarely today is the first time since trying atv last week that I've been able to get a stable picture on any build.
Last night's atv won't boot.
Vic .027 has been stable after a few manual scans for about 3 hours now whereas normally tuner a fails within minutes!
I've disabled ABM auto scans.
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Stuey2017a
03-10-17, 16:11
Heard back from WoS; they mention:
First thing I'd advise to do is try using an attenuator. You may have high signal causing signal flood. They're low cost and sounds like this will resolve your issue.
Doubtful that low signal is causing this from your report.
Has anyone heard of, or experienced similar issues where an attenuator resolved the issue? In addition, anyone got a link of the one I need to by for the Rf/aerial?
Attenuator‘s are used on cable & sat tuners for same reason... in fact you can even buy multiswitches with them on to handle multiple sats.... I am sure somebody will provide a link to your requirement.
Heard back from WoS; they mention:
First thing I'd advise to do is try using an attenuator. You may have high signal causing signal flood. They're low cost and sounds like this will resolve your issue.
Doubtful that low signal is causing this from your report.
Has anyone heard of, or experienced similar issues where an attenuator resolved the issue? In addition, anyone got a link of the one I need to by for the Rf/aerial?I've had a quick read up on freeview page and should get a signal strength at a max of 75 - mine's at 87, there's an attenuator in maplin for a fiver, I'll grab one tomorrow as turner a has gone again after about 4 hours.
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Stuey2017a
03-10-17, 18:38
I've had a quick read up on freeview page and should get a signal strength at a max of 75 - mine's at 87, there's an attenuator in maplin for a fiver, I'll grab one tomorrow as turner a has gone again after about 4 hours.
Hi goRt, you got a link to that Freeview page mentioning the signal strength (mine is 99% - I thought the higher the better!!??) and also you got a link to the attenuator you're buying in maplins? Not sure which one to go for, if I need a variable one, etc. I will have a browse as no maplin or similar shop near me, so will buy online. Also let us know how you get on .. hopefully this will resolve the issue..
As a side, could anyone explain to me if it is the high signal causing signal flood, how come this only affected the Octagon SF4008 and not my old/previous Humax PVR or in fact the tv connected direct?
Stuey2017a
03-10-17, 18:47
ah found the FreeView (signal strength) page: https://ukfree.tv/article/1107051892/Freeview_signals_too_much_of_a_good_thing_is_bad_f
Hi goRt, you got a link to that Freeview page mentioning the signal strength (mine is 99% - I thought the higher the better!!??) and also you got a link to the attenuator you're buying in maplins? Not sure which one to go for, if I need a variable one, etc. I will have a browse as no maplin or similar shop near me, so will buy online. Also let us know how you get on .. hopefully this will resolve the issue..
As a side, could anyone explain to me if it is the high signal causing signal flood, how come this only affected the Octagon SF4008 and not my old/previous Humax PVR or in fact the tv connected direct?I was going to get this:
https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/aerial-attenuator-6db-bw59p but could be persuaded to get a variable one
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..I'd get a variable one.
As a side, could anyone explain to me if it is the high signal causing signal flood, how come this only affected the Octagon SF4008 and not my old/previous Humax PVR or in fact the tv connected direct?
Depends on the tuner in the receiver and sensitivity .... and the drivers written for the receiver
..I'd get a variable one.Bingo
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p86843?table=no
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Bingo
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p86843?table=no
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkJust make sure you get the right connectors.
Just make sure you get the right connectors.Was just going to post that :-(
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Stuey2017a
04-10-17, 08:55
If it helps, had an email off WoS this morning pointing me to this (which I have already purchased!):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plug-In-Coax-TV-Aerial-Attenuator-Freeview-Digital-Variable-0-20dB/190326860909?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D63f48d 003fa643be995d01e53fba5df6%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1 %26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D390993822038&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598
Heard back from WoS; they mention:
First thing I'd advise to do is try using an attenuator. You may have high signal causing signal flood. They're low cost and sounds like this will resolve your issue.
Doubtful that low signal is causing this from your report.
Has anyone heard of, or experienced similar issues where an attenuator resolved the issue? In addition, anyone got a link of the one I need to by for the Rf/aerial?
Counter intuitively too much signal can cause an over load of of the front end of a sensitive tuner (in a non-destructive way) and cause picture break-up. The simple cure is to put an in-line attenuation in the down-lead signal path or if you already have a aerial amplifier to remove it or turn down the gain (assuming the amp has that adjustment)
No two tuners from different manufactures are likely to have the same input sensitivity so plugging in the aerial cable to, say, a TV with a low sensitivity tuner may give perfect results whereas plugging the same cable into a box with a high sensitivity may cause picture breakup. Furthermore, with UK terrestrial the signal level you receive may vary during the day and/or as a result of high/low pressure weather systems. If your box is just on the limit of being overloaded you may have relatively long periods of good or bad reception depending on the time of day you are watching or recording.
Signal strength reported by boxes and TV should be regarded as just an arbitrary indication and the more important figure is the quality figure (some boxes may report a BER figure (bit error rate). Again, no two manufactures seem to report, or measure, signal strength in the same way. You cannot directly compare the signal strength reported by two different boxes or TVs apart from saying that seem to be indicating roughly the same. On some boxes I've owned a signal strength of 60%+ has produced reliable decoding/pictures whereas on others 80%+ is required. Many boxes cannot report more than 99% or 100% so give no indication that they may be over-loaded. A box reporting, say, 98% signal strength may be working within it's reliable input range but give the box 4x as much signal and it will still only report 99% or 100% signal strength but the front end may be over-loaded.
It's the quality figure that matters most which should ideally be 99 or 100% or a BER of 0.
In-line attenuators can be purchased quite cheaply. The sponsor has some with F connectors if you are using F connector fly-leads and F to Coax adapters to connect to a box's coax input
https://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/satellite-and-terrestrial/attenuators
In-line attenuators with co-axial connections are available from many other sources including Ebay. Possibly buy a 6db and a 10db. They can be plugged together for 16db for a test but possibly not recommended as a final solution as this arrangemnt may not be mechanically robust when equipment is moved/dusted etc.
Stuey2017a
04-10-17, 10:13
@adm - thanks for the excellent explanation, does clarify things alot more for me now .. and thanks for the link to the attenuator; I purchased a variable one in the end, so hopefully that resolves the issue (is there a method to using the variable one, I'm assuming I set it to the lowest setting and then try upping it until I go more than a few days with no breakups?) ..
Try adding the attenuator at its lowest setting when you start getting breakups, and see if you can clear them.
Stuey2017a
04-10-17, 10:32
Try adding the attenuator at its lowest setting when you start getting breakups, and see if you can clear them.
Thanks ccs, will try that, difficultly I have is that I cannot replicate or predict when I get them; although do seem to happen after recording programs on a given channel.
Out of interest, as mentioned previously I do seem to get these on given Channels e.g. ITV4, BBC, is this indicative of such a signal/attenuator issue - where some channels frequency/signal seem ok and only affected on others?
I've got an unexplained terrestrial aerial problem at the moment.
Brand new aerial and cabling - signal/picture is absolutely fine on all mux's, until it rains.
Then just one mux completely fails - zero signal. All the others are 100% fine.
There are trees which could be an issue (they are due to be trimmed), but I can't see why just one mux should totally fail.
Thanks ccs, will try that, difficultly I have is that I cannot replicate or predict when I get them; although do seem to happen after recording programs on a given channel.
Out of interest, as mentioned previously I do seem to get these on given Channels e.g. ITV4, BBC, is this indicative of such a signal/attenuator issue - where some channels frequency/signal seem ok and only affected on others?
In the UK you will typically receive your terrestrial broadcasts on 6 Multiplers (MUX). These MUXs are transmitted at different frequencies and maybe at different transmitted powers levels. You can check the transmitted powers for each MUX by going to the web page for the transmitter. Local service MUXs seem to be transmitted at relatively low power compared to the main channel MUXs.
Assuming all the MUXs signals arrive at you house with the same power levels (unlikely) the response of your aerial and even the quality of down-lead will result in some MUX signals arriving at you box with signal levels higher than the signal levels for other MUXs.
If, and it's still speculation, the problem is too high a signal level some MUXs may be over-loading the from end of the box more than others. TV channels carried by one MUX may be OK whereas the TV channels carried by another MUX may be causing the front end over-load. If you go to the web page for your transmitter you can see which TV channels are carried on each MUX. Do you only get the breakup on on the channels carried by the one MUX?
Stuey2017a
04-10-17, 11:28
.... Do you only get the breakup on on the channels carried by the one MUX?
Thanks again for the explanation adm, as for getting breakup, I do seem to exhibit it more on MUX "D3&4" and "BBC A", although these are the main channels which I record off and assume if I frequently recorded on other MUX's then I'd see similar across the board..
I've got an unexplained terrestrial aerial problem at the moment.
Brand new aerial and cabling - signal/picture is absolutely fine on all mux's, until it rains.
Then just one mux completely fails - zero signal. All the others are 100% fine.
There are trees which could be an issue (they are due to be trimmed), but I can't see why just one mux should totally fail.
Which transmitter? Which MUX? What aerial? What cable?
My first guess would be that the dodgy MUX is at the higher end of the transmitter frequencies.
Are you splitting the signal and if so how many ways and has the splinter got a spare output?
If it helps, had an email off WoS this morning pointing me to this (which I have already purchased!):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plug-In-Coax-TV-Aerial-Attenuator-Freeview-Digital-Variable-0-20dB/190326860909?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D63f48d 003fa643be995d01e53fba5df6%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1 %26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D390993822038&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598Ordered and dispatched already.
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Which transmitter? Which MUX? What aerial? What cable?
My first guess would be that the dodgy MUX is at the higher end of the transmitter frequencies.
Are you splitting the signal and if so how many ways and has the splinter got a spare output?
Belmont, it's the highest frequency, 785.8MHz, 100,000W, C60-. Strongest mux is 150,000W.
Splitter is powered, variable gain, new - swapping around or removing altogether makes no difference.
Wideband aerial, WF100 cable.
Problem shows up on a tv directly connected to the aerial.
It's raining :), C60 has no signal, but local channel C27 (522MHz), just 5,000W, has a signal strength of 100%.
Ok, I know I've gone off topic, but it was really to highlight that terrestrial signal quality on different channels can vary wildly.
Both my TV's are 10+ years old, and show zero signal strength at the moment on C60.
I've just tried a tv with a T2 tuner, and it's reporting signal strength approaching 50%, so it looks like the tuners in my sony TV's are not particulary good at the high frequency range.
Stuey2017a
05-10-17, 16:51
Attentuator arrived and is in-situ, have adjusted it (its a variable attentuator) to about half way, the effect has been most channels SNR remain at 99% (as before) but some channels on the same MUX have dropped from 99% SNR to 84% and 87%. If I turn the attenuator down further some MUX channels break up constantly (others remain fine).
The Channels I've noticed the recording/breaking up picture on remain at 99% SNR - as I say can't turn the attenuator down any further as other channels break up.
I will leave it run over the next couple of days to see if its making any difference...
Attentuator arrived and is in-situ, have adjusted it (its a variable attentuator) to about half way, the effect has been most channels SNR remain at 99% (as before) but some channels on the same MUX have dropped from 99% SNR to 84% and 87%. If I turn the attenuator down further some MUX channels break up constantly (others remain fine).
The Channels I've noticed the recording/breaking up picture on remain at 99% SNR - as I say can't turn the attenuator down any further as other channels break up.
I will leave it run over the next couple of days to see if its making any difference...Mine also arrived today (great service), all channels on tuner a breaking up, inserted the attenuator and turned down until picture recovered at 84db, been running that way for an hour.
I am currently recording 2 hd channels on the same bouquet on the same tuner (a) just because I can
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Attentuator arrived and is in-situ, have adjusted it (its a variable attentuator) to about half way, the effect has been most channels SNR remain at 99% (as before) but some channels on the same MUX have dropped from 99% SNR to 84% and 87%. If I turn the attenuator down further some MUX channels break up constantly (others remain fine).
The Channels I've noticed the recording/breaking up picture on remain at 99% SNR - as I say can't turn the attenuator down any further as other channels break up.
I will leave it run over the next couple of days to see if its making any difference...
Repeat post as my original seems to have vapourised
SNR = Signal to Noise Ratio and not necessarily an indication of input signal level.
I suggest that it may be better to adjust the attenuator so the channel with the 84% just gets to 99%
If you have purchased a variable 20db attenuator you may be reducing the signal level too far
6db reduces the signal by x2
10db reduces the signal by x3
20db reduces the signal by x10
You may need to only reduce the signal by less than x2 - so closer to the minimum setting rather than half way or maximum
Stuey2017a
05-10-17, 18:56
Thanks adm, I have upped the attenuator so 84% now becomes 99%, which is what it was before the attentuator was inserted (as mentioned in my first post, all channels report SNR at 99%).
On OpenATV, what is a better metric of input signal level (as apposed to SNR)?
Hopefully, you have now reached a SNR of 99% but with a reduced signal strength.
Hopefully, you have now reached a SNR of 99% but with a reduced signal strength.
Yes, a high Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) is still being achieved but possibly now with a x2 or x3 lower input level which no longer causes a front end overload.
So without the attenuator I have an snr of 71db and an agc of 87-88.
Adjusting the attenuator produces a stable picture (all this relates to tuner a) where by agc drops to 84-86, and remains stable for a period of time (5mins - 8+ hours) but it is inconsistent.
I can get the failure to be very fast by reducing the attenuation or increasing - the sent drops to 0 from 70 with just a touch, at that point tuner b has no picture.
So something's not right here, either the drivers or a hardware issue.
Tuner b or the TV function correctly (unless snr drops through the floor)
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So without the attenuator I have an snr of 71db and an agc of 87-88.
Adjusting the attenuator produces a stable picture (all this relates to tuner a) where by agc drops to 84-86, and remains stable for a period of time (5mins - 8+ hours) but it is inconsistent.
I can get the failure to be very fast by reducing the attenuation or increasing - the sent drops to 0 from 70 with just a touch, at that point tuner b has no picture.
So something's not right here, either the drivers or a hardware issue.
Tuner b or the TV function correctly (unless snr drops through the floor)
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkShould the bit I've highlighted refer to tuner a ??
In theory, changing the attenuator should move from too much signal to too little signal.
Isn't that what you're describing?
Should the bit I've highlighted refer to tuner a ??
In theory, changing the attenuator should move from too much signal to too little signal.
Isn't that what you're describing?Well at that point both tuners lose signal (not tested the TV)
Yes the signal is dropping below some minimum requirement. But 'full' signal was causing the original issue.
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. But 'full' signal was causing the original issue.
Or maybe not - that was a suggestion by WOS that had some merit but your testing with an attenuator suggests that it doesn't fully cure the problem.
Have you tried 5.0.028? There are some driver fixes.
Stuey2017a
08-10-17, 15:10
From my perspective, the attenuator made a very slight difference but like goRt the issue still remains .. any other suggestions on what to try next would be appreciated ...
Have you tried 5.0.028? There are some driver fixes.All my comments related to .028, which I've now reverted from as to gui had a number of fails.
I thought (from reading here) that the driver updates related to dvb-s crosstalk/interference which I did notice an improvement in.
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Just to update .032 makes no improvement (drivers remain 29/sept)
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Just to update .032 makes no improvement (drivers remain 29/sept)
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Just updated to 5 1 002, drivers unchanged at 30/Sept - no improvement :-(
Just updated to 5 1 002, drivers unchanged at 30/Sept - no improvement :-(
Report your issue with logs etc.. to Octagon direct:
support@octagon-germany.de
Report your issue with logs etc.. to Octagon direct:
support@octagon-germany.de
I've done that for you
Report your issue with logs etc.. to Octagon direct:
support@octagon-germany.de
I've done that for you
No response received from your support organisation, but I've had 5 1 003 loaded for 24 hours now (after having to follow the recovery process).
This has driver dated 2017-10-20 which again exibits the same issue on DVB-T A, it looks to be temperature related - I don't see the error until the processor temp is reported at 59c (never looked at this on warmer days).
Over to WoS for comment.
The drivers are provided by Octagon not the Openvix team.
The drivers are provided by Octagon not the Openvix team.
The hardware's provided by WoS - the forum sponsor.
No response received from your support organisation, but I've had 5 1 003 loaded for 24 hours now (after having to follow the recovery process).
This has driver dated 2017-10-20 which again exibits the same issue on DVB-T A, it looks to be temperature related - I don't see the error until the processor temp is reported at 59c (never looked at this on warmer days).
The processor temperature on my ET10K is currently 73C.
The processor temperature on my ET10K is currently 73C.Does that use the same hybrid twin dvb-t card?
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Does that use the same hybrid twin dvb-t card?No, but I thought you were saying that the problem was related to the processor temperature, and 59C is not particularly high.
Mine has single hybrid dvb-c/t2 tuners.
No response received from your support organisation,
That is Octagon support email address, not my support.
@ goRT, please give a step by step how to replicate. Any particular channels cause your issue more?
Have you fully checked your coax feeds, antenna etc? Are you using in F connectors with F Type to RF adapters by any chance? Have you double checked all RF connectors? Any RF splitters? Any distribution system in your Terrestrial feed?
No, but I thought you were saying that the problem was related to the processor temperature, and 59C is not particularly high.
Mine has single hybrid dvb-c/t2 tuners.
Hi, I don't think it's processor temp that's the issue, but that's the only reading available on the SF4008 and was something I noticed as a potential cause as the issue didn't occur straight away after yesterday's flash.
That is Octagon support email address, not my support.
Why give that out to me then???
@ goRT, please give a step by step how to replicate. Any particular channels cause your issue more?
Have you fully checked your coax feeds, antenna etc? Are you using in F connectors with F Type to RF adapters by any chance? Have you double checked all RF connectors? Any RF splitters? Any distribution system in your Terrestrial feed?
OK, I'll go back over all the data points I've posted in this thread.
No issues on the 2nd DVB-T tuner on the hybrid which is in slot one (as you know there's only a single coax feed into the SF4008 DVB-T card)
No issues when plugging the coax directly into the TV
No issues on the TV when routed via the SF4008 card when experiencing issues on tuner A.
Brand new coax cables used, as well as existing ones originally used. No F type connectors.
Used an attenuator as previously recommended, but that made no difference.
Sometimes the issue doesn't occur directly after a reboot but may take a few mins to appear, yesterday after flashing the new release the issue didn't present for 15-20 mins - when the box had warmed up.
Today it took a few mins to appear.
Disabling and re-enabling tuner a may fix the problem for a short while, but then it re-occurs within minutes.
When returning out of the playlist view the short pause may cause the issue to disappear for a few seconds/mins.
I NEVER have the issue on tuner b
I used to have the issues with DVB-S on tuner c, but a driver update several months ago remediated that.
I did try ATV at one point when that was getting more frequent driver updates, but that made things a lot worse (I wasn't getting the issues and someone asked me to test!)
No splitters in my apartment, but I am on a building distribution system of some sort (I have no access to that, and didn't see any disclaimers relating to this in the sale documentation)
I'm not the only one with this issue as I'm not the OP, I'm just the boring person who repeatedly provides data as requested and rigorously posts up each time an update is available and drivers update.
Why give that out to me then???
So you could report the issue direct to Octagon, imho its either a driver or signal issue, but try following.
1) Disconnect power and remove lid.
2) If you have a tuner in slot B remove it.
3) Move your Terrestrial tuner into slot B.
Iirc if you have one twin tuner module in either slot it will be detected as a twin tuner, but I might be wrong.
Re-test with the tuner in slot b.
So you could report the issue direct to Octagon, imho its either a driver or signal issue, but try following.
1) Disconnect power and remove lid.
2) If you have a tuner in slot B remove it.
3) Move your Terrestrial tuner into slot B.
Iirc if you have one twin tuner module in either slot it will be detected as a twin tuner, but I might be wrong.
Re-test with the tuner in slot b.
Hi,
Yes, I have a DVB-S in slot 2 (no hard drive, 1gb ethernet to a server).
So I have tested as requested:
1. swapped the DVB-T into slot 2 (leaving slot 1 empty) which allows both DVB-T tuners to be access
2. recorded 4 HD channels concurrently (split across tuner a and b) whilst watching a 5th on tuner a
3. waited 45 minutes for this to warm the box up to 60c
No issues observed (but it's hard to prove a negative)
4. Returned box to standard state (DVB-T in slot 1, DVB-S in slot 2)
5. Again started 4 HD DVB-T recordings
6. Waited for the pixelation to start (CPU temp showing as 59c)
So the card functions correctly in slot 2, but not in slot 1.
What further PD do you require?
Thanks
One more test, put the twin sat tuner in slot 1 and the hybrid in slot 2, then retest as tuner a will be forced in slot 2.
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One more test, put the twin sat tuner in slot 1 and the hybrid in slot 2, then retest as tuner a will be forced in slot 2.
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Hi,
So I removed the DVB-S card and ran the box with 4 HD recordings for 90 mins.
The picture breaks up, but cancelling the recordings allows the picture to recover, it isn't stable but it does recover unlike in the normal config.
I've then swapped the DVB-S card into slot 1 (but I only have a single sat feed) and the DVB-T card into slot 2 and have been unable to replicate the picture breakups (but obviously only a single T tuner is available in this config).
Thanks
Just to update, 5 1 004 (still driver date 2017-10-20) shows no improvement
Hi, I've experienced a similar problem (broken up terrestrial reception after random time, even though the signal is OK). Did anyone already find any cause and solution? It looks like a badly driven tuner (software issue). Thanks.
My configuration is purely terrestrial (DUAL DVB-T2/C tuner in slot A, slot B is empty). Octagon SF4008 + OpenATV 6.1.
Hi, I've experienced a similar problem (broken up terrestrial reception after random time, even though the signal is OK). Did anyone already find any cause and solution? It looks like a badly driven tuner (software issue). Thanks.
My configuration is purely terrestrial (DUAL DVB-T2/C tuner in slot A, slot B is empty). Octagon SF4008 + OpenATV 6.1.
I found putting the DVB-T in the second slot fixed the issue (altough I can't then use DVB-S and have 2T tuners) - can you test that and update us please.
Thanks
I found putting the DVB-T in the second slot fixed the issue (altough I can't then use DVB-S and have 2T tuners) - can you test that and update us please.
Thanks
There will be also 2T tuners, if I plug tuner module into slot B? I thought, any module plugged into slot B is reduced to single tuner functionality. If so, it'll be fine (altough it looks a little strange, as workaround hack of some system failure, and as you said, another tuner extension is limited). I'm going to test it personally, but currently I'm not at home... Once I can test it, I'll let you know. Thanks a lot for a hint.
There will be also 2T tuners, if I plug tuner module into slot B? I thought, any module plugged into slot B is reduced to single tuner functionality. If so, it'll be fine (altough it looks a little strange, as workaround hack of some system failure, and as you said, another tuner extension is limited). I'm going to test it personally, but currently I'm not at home... Once I can test it, I'll let you know. Thanks a lot for a hint.Yes, if the first slot is empty then you get access to the 2 tuners in the second slot.
Tested a few posts earlier.
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Finally managed to load 009 with 24/Dec/17 drivers - no improvement, picture breakup within 5 min, temp at 61c
Finally managed to load 009 with 24/Dec/17 drivers - no improvement, picture breakup within 5 min, temp at 61c
Open a support ticket with WoS. Thread closed, pointless going round in circles.
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