Freeview UK tuning failed fatal

[n3ur0]

Hi all,

I have the Edision mega and I am trying to get ABM to scan but every time I do it just keeps saying tuning failed fatal.

In the providers I select Winter Hill as that's the closest transmitter that I can find even though I live in Lancaster and looking at transmitter info on a website it does say that Lancaster is the one. I have tuned the channels and they work but I just can't figure out why it's not scanning in ABM.

Any ideas please?

[abu baniaz]

There is a thread about terrestrial in the ABM section. Can you post the results?

[EMJB]

I suspect the OP is saying he doesn't get any results - if so this is an example of a problem I raised a while ago in the thread "Use of ABM on Freeview Transmitters " - ABM only supports the 60 odd primary transmitters and non of the 1000+ fill-in transmitters such as Lancaster. The possible solution of generating a personalised ABM file (can't remember correct name) requires a lot more newbie-friendly instructions if that is the solution.

EMJB

[n3ur0]

I suspect the OP is saying he doesn't get any results - if so this is an example of a problem I raised a while ago in the thread "Use of ABM on Freeview Transmitters " - ABM only supports the 60 odd primary transmitters and non of the 1000+ fill-in transmitters such as Lancaster. The possible solution of generating a personalised ABM file (can't remember correct name) requires a lot more newbie-friendly instructions if that is the solution.

EMJB

That sounds like what I need, if you can point me in the direction I will be able to figure it out. I've been looking in the XML file and have found where the transponders are but that's where I need the help?

[abu baniaz]

ABM supports data we have. You can't expect someone to round the country getting data for every mast. If the existing region/mast doe snot work for you, supply the data required and it will be added.

See this thread
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?42301-ABM-(UK)-Add-HD-channels-for-some-regions

[n3ur0]

Here is the data you require:

Lancaster

https://ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv/Lancaster

52915

[abu baniaz]

Please try the following file.

Exit out of ABM
Unzip, extract, transfer to /usr/lib/enigma2/python/Plugins/SystemPlugins/AutoBouquetsMaker/providers/
In ABM, for Freeview, select newly created area (lancaster)
If new region is not listed, exit out of ABM, and delete the providers.cache file in above mentioned location.
Best to run as Freeview only so you can just check one bouquet

Please post back results so that we can commit changes.

[EMJB]

Some experiments I have done indicate that just updating the database will leave you with bouquet lists pertinent to Lancaster's parent transmitter, Winter Hill, and if you try to tune to one of the services not transmitted from Lancaster you will get a "Tuning Failed" type of message. Fortunately for you, Lancaster is unusual for a fill-in station in that it transmits PSB1,2,& 3 + COM4,5,6 rather than just the PSB1,2& 3 of the usual fill-in stations and PSB1,2,3 & COM4,5,6,7,8 at Winter Hill. Thus about 75% of services listed will work for you compared with a fill-in station norm of < 40%. However I would like to be proved wrong - please let me know if this is the case.

An implicit commitment to include all the fill-in station used by OpenVix "customers" could lead to as many as 1150 entries if OpenVix PVRs become the norm for Freeview - is anything vaguely approaching this practical?

The implications of the forthcoming frequency shuffle worry me, in that users could reasonably expect new database entries to be available within an hour or less of the actual changeover. On the Topfield PVR this problem was overcome by different database entries for pre-and post- digital changeover, sometimes with a third entry for intermediate frequencies used for a few weeks or months. Thus the potential number for database entries would grow (perhaps by ~20%) if you adopt this approach creating the new entries a few weeks ahead and deleting the old soon after. Whichever way you go there is going to be quite a workload quite apart from the work of collecting the data. Also of some concern is that the previous post implies a lack of confidence in ability to create new entries without trying them.

EMJB

[abu baniaz]

I don't think you understand how ABM works. It does not scan by interrogating the listed frequencies. It locks onto the listed frequency for the area/mast. We have used PSB1 for all regions that are there It obtains the data from the SDT/BAB/NIT tables and writes these to lamedb as well as create the bouquets.

For "problematic areas", there is facility to add custom transponders. This is where the non-working channels you mentioned get corrected by checking the custom transponders. We will add what is posted by users.

If you want to provide all the data, please feel free to do so.
If you want to improve ABM, please submit the suggested changes.
If you want to edit the instruction so they are more user friendly, please do so.

My approach/view is that the forum and image should be user friendly as intuitive as possible. I'd rather commit what is tested to be working even though I am confident its is correct.

[abu baniaz]

The terrestrial scan plugin will also work for the purposes of non-abm scanning when frequency values are not known.

[n3ur0]

OK so I have updated the file and it scanned the channels but now when I go to EPG the only channels that work are the FreeView HD ones, all the rest aren't. The only way to get them back is to perform a manual scan.

[abu baniaz]

Repeat with this file please

[n3ur0]

Perfect! Many thanks Abu :thumbsup:

[EMJB]

I don't think you understand how ABM works. It does not scan by interrogating the listed frequencies. It locks onto the listed frequency for the area/mast. We have used PSB1 for all regions that are there It obtains the data from the SDT/BAB/NIT tables and writes these to lamedb as well as create the bouquets.

I think I understand that, and it is the reason why the services listed in the bouquets created by ABM are for the region, rather than for individual transmitters (the PSB1 mux appears to be identical for all the transmitters in the region - a very sensible approach from the transmitter operator's viewpoint as it simplifies the hardware at the fill-in stations). Mildly annoying when it is just the odd local station that appears in the lists but cannot be viewed, but would not be acceptable to me if I was only covered by a fill-in transmitter with just the three basic muxes.

My concerns about the database and updates arise from experience during the digital changeover on the Topfield PVR. If you are confident you can cope with a growing database and the problems and workload associated with the forthcoming frequency shuffle, feel free to ignore my comments. Unfortunately unless you specifically canvas information, I doubt whether you will get it before the changes have happened.

With regards to custom transponders, I assume you refer to those outside the normal database to be installed on your HDD etc. If I was convinced that it was the right way to go I would be happy to struggle to put together some more user-friendly information on how to use these, but I would probably try to automate the process using PC application to enable people to easily update them for the frequency shuffle. However at the moment I am playing with an approach based on enhancing the normal scanning process under PC control which seems to be more likely to meet my personal needs.

EMJB

[abu baniaz]

I am not ignoring your comments. ABM gets the details that are being transmitted on the mast.

If people want to use ABM and it does not work, they can upload a raw transport reading or the files from the other thread. I don't think it is too much difficult to scan the relevant frequencies (within Enigma2), or if unknown, use the Terrestrial scan plugin. They can run the plugin in the other thread to create the xml file, slight editing required. Or they can upload the lamedb file here and someone can do it for them.

I am presuming that after the changes, the PSB 1 frequencies will remain the same and the data on the tables will be altered accordingly. The custom transponders are in the ABM provider file.

You are more than welcome to bring your expertise from the Topfield project to Enigma2. Others look forward to the implementation of the CRID system too.

[EMJB]

If people want to use ABM and it does not work, they can upload a raw transport reading or the files from the other thread. I don't think it is too much difficult to scan the relevant frequencies (within Enigma2), or if unknown, use the Terrestrial scan plugin. They can run the plugin in the other thread to create the xml file, slight editing required. Or they can upload the lamedb file here and someone can do it for them.. This highlights a very fundamental difference in approach between us. Perhaps because of my professional background (including defence systems for overseas customers), I see the ideal to be that the customers/users can do all the essential maintenance without any help from the developers. In this instance defining a list of up to eight channels (whose values are readily obtainable from sites such as https://www.ofcom.org.uk/spectrum/information/transmitter-frequency) is all that is needed to ensure you scan the right channels, don't get duplicates, and don't get services you can't receive, while allowing the developers to keep well out of the panic zone when the frequency shuffle starts. I think it is pertinent to note that my TVs manage to scan successfully without any inputs from either me or from the manufacturer, so why not OpenVix?



I am presuming that after the changes, the PSB 1 frequencies will remain the same It never occurred to me that this would be the case, and it would certainly reduce my concerns dramatically. However I read https://ukfree.tv/article/1107052530/Ofcom_announces_700_MHz_clearance_schedule_201720_ indicates that only COM7 & COM8 will use channel numbers > 48, and you can find plenty of examples of PSB1 using channels > 48 in the above database (a quick check of around 30 Txs found 10 with PSB1 on Ch>48, which is consistent with what one would expect from a random distribution). There would seem to be no incentive on OFCOM to keep PSB1 on the same frequencies as possible, as their dominant customers (the TVs) will not care. Where did you get your information from?

EMJB

[abu baniaz]

Freeview is not open-source and there are some elements that deviate from the DVB standards.

The frequencies are in groups to avoid clashes during a scan on normal TVs although some regions needs to scan individual frequencies. Enigma 2 does not honour the groupings. This applies to all images, not just Openvix.

There was some data on the ofcom site. Somebody went to the trouble of compiling these into a terrestrial.XML file, but that became too large as you stated earlier. The ofcom data has proven to be out of date and incorrect. The data on Brian Butterworth's site has proven to be more reliable. I note your previous comment, but have to disagree with you.

people can amend files themselves.