View Full Version : cannot record more than 2 channels
bloomers66
03-10-16, 13:25
Hi
Wondered if anyone could help with this please, I got a Vu +duo2 a couple of months ago and still cannot record 2 channels and watch another? I have a twin tuner and the following setup
Openvix 3.1
Ccam 2.1.4 and tried 2.1.3
Tuner A Vuplus DVB=2 Nim (AVL6222)(DVB-S2)
Simple
Single
28.2 Astra 2E/2F/2G
Send DiSEqC No
Tuner B
Equal to
Tuner A Vuplus DVB=2 Nim (AVL6222)(DVB-S2)
Both tuners over 80% signal strength
Twin Lnb
Thank You for any help with this
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 13:51
Further to Avalon's post......
A tuner grants access to a frequency/transponder/channel stream. If you have two tuners you can access two transponders/frequencies. You can comfortably record 6 channels off each frequency. So you should be able to do 12, provided the channels are on the same two frequencies/transponders/channel streams.
There were changes that required you to use CCcam 2.30 if decrypting two channels simultaneously. Not sure if the changes were before the image you are using or afterwards. In any case, you have stated you can record two, so that should not be the issue.
As I understand it (and i'm sure someone will correct me if i'm mistaken) with twin tuners you can record from two different transponders and view another program on either of the two transponders, you are limited to the other channels on those transponders but the image greys out what's not available to view.
Correct. Once you have run out of tuners you can only record/watch what ever is also on those two transponders. Unfortunately with UK satellite (unlike UK terrestrial[1]) there are very few channels on each transponder so finding something else on those transponders is very limited.
The last column of the table at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free-to-air_channels_at_28%C2%B0E
gives some indication on what is available on each transponder. For instance one transponder carries BBC1HD, BBC2HD, BBC 1 Northern Ireland and CBBC HD so if BBC1 is being recorded there are only 3 other channel that can be watched on that transponder.
An Enigma box will however let you record all those 4 channels at the same time, or record 3 and watch 1.
[1] With UK terrestrial all the the channels are carried on typically 6 MUXes (transponders) so when 2 tuners are in use there is around 20+ channels still available on the same MUXes.
you are limited to the other channels on those transponders but the image greys out what's not available to view
Not in the graphical EPG (grid) view. Its something I miss from my previous PVR where the colour changed for unavailable channels in the graphical EPG view when all the tuner was occupied with recording.
Colour does change. They go grey.
Colour does change. They go grey.
Not on my Extrend 10K
The attached screenshot shows 2 satellite tuners occupied with recording from 2 different transponders.
There is no difference in the 'greyness' for BBC 1 HD, BBC 2 HD and, say, ITV2 (or any other channel)
I can still select BBC2 HD because it on the same transponder as BBC1 HD but when selecting ITV2 the message is no free tuner.
This has been the same on both my Miraclebox and extrend with builds in the last year+
Not on my Extrend 10K
There is no change in the EPG, but in the bouquet the unavailable channels are greyed out.
DaMacFunkin
03-10-16, 16:02
That is the graphical EPG, the channels go grey in the channel selection bouquet pages. (Arrow up or down).
Is there any wonder people get confused, I certainly am! :)
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 17:01
Is there any wonder people get confused, I certainly am! :)
Best people understand the difference between bouquets/channel lists and EPG. Would be great if people refer to the E2 terminology when assisting others.
You can also view the channels on the current transponder.
TV > Green (Reception/satellites) > Select "current transponder"
For images that have not mapped the TV button to bouquets:
Open channel list (not Graphical EPG) > Green (Extended) > Select "current transponder"
*Text may vary between images.
@Valiant, cheers, I had worked it out by trying it, it's when epg and bouquet get interchanged that I fail to grasp the differences, or should I say the need for the differences?
After Abu's post I'm not sure if I have it right now :confused:
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 17:12
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?51808-EPG-Channels-and-Bouquets
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?48142-EPG-Screens-and-Navigation
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?51808-EPG-Channels-and-Bouquets
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?48142-EPG-Screens-and-Navigation
Yes, I remember reading those links, and I'm afraid I'm still non the wiser (well, not much), as you can see.
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 17:41
Yes, I remember reading those links, and I'm afraid I'm still non the wiser (well, not much), as you can see.
what are you confused by?
I'll have a think about it.
If I can get to understand what I find confusing, then maybe it won't be confusing anymore - work that one out! :)
That is the graphical EPG, the channels go grey in the channel selection bouquet pages. (Arrow up or down).If one can be greyed-out, can't the other?
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 18:19
If one can be greyed-out, can't the other?
I see a task for you.
There is no change in the EPG, but in the bouquet the unavailable channels are greyed out.
Surely the EPG is just a list of channels in a bouquet with program timing information? The channels in my EPG were arranged using the bouquet editor in the web interface.
The EPG view with the channels greyed out is exactly the same bouquet list with exactly the same program timing/description information, albeit less of it and displayed differently.
If there a difference between a bouquet and an EPG then former is just a list of channels and the other is a list of channels with timing/description information.
As both of the screens have a list plus timing/description then both must be EPG?
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 18:48
EPG is what people have accepted to be "Synopsis". Just because Sky call channel lists/groups of channels " EPG", it does not mean the rest of the world has to.
Would be a good addition to grey out channels in EPG screens too.
E2 receivers can be confusing. Does not help when experienced people keep using names for one thing when they mean something else.
I see a task for you.Added to the list.
http://birdman.dynalias.org/OpenVix/my_bug_list.htmlI might be able to get some work done on it (the list...) shortly.
Does not help when experienced people keep using names for one thing when they mean something else.
So why is one of these screenshots classified as an EPG and the other not. Both screenshots have a list of channels (from the same bouquet), both have a list of programs for each of these channels, both have the times that the programs are broadcast. The only difference is the formatting of the information. Both seem to me to be an electronic program guide.
spanner123
03-10-16, 20:09
For what it's worth I would call one an EPG and the other a now & next guide!
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 20:25
Why is a wheel classified a wheel? Is a wheel no longer a wheel when it is part of a car?
Left: You accessed the Graphical EPG. This opens up the last selected bouquet. Note that one leads into the other, yet they are different.
Right: You accessed the Bouquet called alan_Freesat. It loads the EPG it has.
You can have Channel lists without EPG.
You can have EPG with no channel list.
They are two different things. Try disabling one then deleting the relevant data. The other will still be there. The following will get rid of channel lists, but not channels. EPG will not be touched.
init 4 && sleep 10 && rm -rf /etc/defaultsat.tar.gz && rm -rf /etc/enigma2/*.tv && rm -rf /etc/enigma2/*.radio && rm -rf /etc/enigma2/*.del && init 3
Left: You accessed the Graphical EPG. This opens up the last selected bouquet. Note that one leads into the other, yet they are different.
Right: You accessed the Bouquet called alan_Freesat. It loads the EPG it has.
Aren't they then both EPG's ?
Aren't they then both EPG's ?
Plus:
Left. I pressed the EPG button and got a list of bouquet names from which I selected alan_freesat to get the screenshot EPG.
Right: I pressed the up button and got a list of bouquet names from which I selected alan_freesat to get the screenshot EPG.
Absolutely no difference in operation, apart from a different start button, to get exactly the same sequence to get exactly the same Electronic Program Guide from the same source information.
(I have separate bouquets for UK freesat and freeview channels)
No wonder ordinary users are confused when an EPG that they can see on their screens is not an EPG.
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 21:08
Aren't they then both EPG's ?
The EPG data is the synopsis. i.e what event is on the service.
For what it's worth I would call one an EPG and the other a now & next guide!
Call it what you want.
It is better for those posting on the forum to help others to use the names that are used on E2 receivers. Otherwise the steep learning curve involved when people move over to E2 receivers is even worse.
Things a person would have to do.
1. Scan/transfer/create (or combination) a channel list/favourites/bouquets.
2. Obtain EPG data for said services. We have Freesat/UK DVB-C and EIT enabled on our image. Other images have them off and prefer to download from the internet. 28.2 users normally use CrossEPG downaloder.
2. Obtain EPG data for said services. We have Freesat/UK DVB-C and EIT enabled on our image. Other images have them off and prefer to download from the internet. Sky 28.2 users normally use CrossEPG downloader.
Persistent mixing up of the two will not help those starting out. If we accept the "EPG is both", a person will have to: 1 create the EPG. 2. Then enable and download the EPG.
A person starting out will then think: So what was stage 1? Ahh! they are different. So why use the same name?
To access the bouquets on Vix/openATV, press the TV button.
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 21:20
No wonder ordinary users are confused when an EPG that they can see on their screens is not an EPG.
You insist on calling it "Channel lists/bouquets" EPG when they are not.
N.B Vix/OE-A images uses the TV button to access the bouquets at upper most level.
The fact that Freesat/Freeview EPG is absorbed by the system natively, hinders your distinction of the two. Further to the last test, disable all EPG features, delete EPG data. Has channel data/bouquets/genres/groups disappeared? Do you still insist they are the one and the same?
The EPG data is the synopsis. i.e what event is on the service.The broadcast mechanism for now&next and the full EPG are different - at least they were on DVB-T (the latter was added later).
So Now&Next was never an EPG to those of use with Terrestrial Tuners.
Although I look on it as the bouquets being a list of channels and the EPG is the data of which programme is on which channel and for how long, etc..
There are the multiple views of this database.
abu baniaz
03-10-16, 21:41
Although I look on it as the bouquets being a list of channels and the EPG is the data of which programme is on which channel and for how long, etc..
There are the multiple views of this database.
Exactly!
But they are different/independent databases that interact with each other.
A bouquet will show N/A if the service is not on the system.
Exactly!
But they are different/independent databases that interact with each other.I reckon they are one Vix database created from multiple sources...
Pressing the EPG button displays a list of bouquets in the "Choose Bouquet" screen.
- choose a bouquet here and the graphical EPG is displayed which shows programme information and allows the selection of a programme for viewing and the creation of a timer for recording purposes. If you press Menu in this screen you are given the "GraphicalEPG settings" screen that allows you to change the way the EPG is displayed - simple formatting mostly.
Pressing the TV (or Radio) button displays the same list of bouquets in the "(TV)" (or "(Radio)") screen.
- pressing Menu here displays a "Channel list context menu" containing bouquet maintenance options e.g. create/amend/delete so that you can maintain your own bouquets.
- choose a bouquet here and a list of services is displayed along with programme information - Now and Next and PiP, and also Satellites and Providers information.
- pressing Menu after a choice of bouquet displays another "Channel list context menu" screen which provides faciliies to maintain the constituents of the selected bouquet.
The EPG button quite obviously enables you to see EPG information.
The TV (or Radio) button provides facilities for bouquet maintenance, but also tries to be a bit EPG-ish with Now and Next and frustratingly provides better facility than the EPG in showing greyed out services due to unavailable tuners.
Why isn't the "Channel list context menu" not called "Bouquet context menu". Personally I would be quite happy if the term bouquet was dropped entirely and replaced with Service Groups and then Service List for the constituents of the group.
The TV and Radio buttons enable manual maintenance (in the context of bouquets perhaps Bouquet Arranging might be more appropriate :)), a manual facility compared with the automatic function of ABM.
The TV (or Radio) button provides facilities for bouquet maintenance, but also tries to be a bit EPG-ish with Now and Next and frustratingly provides better facility than the EPG in showing greyed out services due to unavailable tuners.I'm trying to track down how this is done.
It's not obvious.....so if anyone knows, hints would be welcome.
DaMacFunkin
05-10-16, 07:44
Pressing the EPG button displays a list of bouquets in the "Choose Bouquet" screen.
Not on my E2 boxes it doesn't, when i press the epg button my boxes go straight to 7 day graphical epg for the bouquet i'm in.
When i press the TV button or the arrow up or down i am taken to the channel selection page, which conveniently shows now and next epg data as well.
I have a wife, i think this is how a sane husband would want this to work, keep her away from the bouquets at all costs.
But back to convenience, e2 has had a lot of good ideas over the years and this is why a lot of boundary's have become blurred.
In the channel selection page can you see what is on later in the evening and set a timer for it? No so it isn't really an epg is it?
In the Graphical epg can you skip through 500 hundred channels in just a few presses? No so it isn't really channel selection is it.
I personally don't think channels should be greyed out in Graphical epg, as i have said the main purpose of this is to set a future timer or reminder, in the future the channel may well be available, if not this will be covered by Timer conflicts... I think it is fine how it is, people just need to use the correct terminology, it really is how all the confusion starts.
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 07:53
FWIW, You can skip through the 500 channels in G-EPG within a few presses. Once in EPG screen, Press TV button, you will be able to select a bouquet of choice to display EPG.
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 07:59
@Birdman, once in channel list, press the Menu button. This then activates Channel List Context Menu.
You can then move, delete, add, rename services to the bouquet.
Not on my E2 boxes it doesn't, when i press the epg button my boxes go straight to 7 day graphical epg for the bouquet i'm in.
...only because you've chosen the option not to display a list of bouquets.
OpenVix 3.1 is very old.
that makes no difference here.
that makes no difference here.The OP has had the box for a couple of months, he may not have realised it was running a very old release of VIX.
@Birdman, once in channel list, press the Menu button. This then activates Channel List Context Menu.
You can then move, delete, add, rename services to the bouquet.If this is in response to #35 then I was really asking where the code is that implements it all.
The OP has had the box for a couple of months, he may not have realised it was running a very old release of VIX.
The age age of the image had no bearing what so ever on the op's question nor solution.
The age age of the image had no bearing what so ever on the op's question nor solution.... but he might not have realised how old the version of VIx was that he was using.
Some people prefer to keep up-to-date. That's his choice to make.
... but he might not have realised how old the version of VIx was that he was using.
Some people prefer to keep up-to-date. That's his choice to make.
The age of the image has nothing what so ever to do with the op's issue. First diagnose the issue then try a image upgrade. A image upgrade on its own would have not helped in this instance at all.
lets see if this post gets deleted.
... hopefully it will be.
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 18:15
lets see if this post gets deleted.
Why would a post that is constructive be moved?
... hopefully it will be.
There is nothing wrong with the post by LarryG. He is correct, the image in use has nothing to do with the OP's issue.
Most of the thread has nothing to do with the OP's issue either.
Why would a post that is constructive be moved?
There is nothing wrong with the post by LarryG. He is correct, the image in use has nothing to do with the OP's issue.
Most of the thread has nothing to do with the OP's issue either.
Because 10 seconds prior to that post being made some one deleted my other post I had just made in this very thread.
Why would a post that is constructive be moved?
There is nothing wrong with the post by LarryG. He is correct, the image in use has nothing to do with the OP's issue.
Most of the thread has nothing to do with the OP's issue either.He seemed to think there was, so I was agreeing with him.
There doesn't appear to be a solution to the OP's problem yet either.
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 18:34
There doesn't appear to be a solution to the OP's problem yet either.
There is, get a third tuner.
There is, get a third tuner.In a round about way, yes.
The OP said " ....and still cannot record 2 channels and watch another?" after trying for over 2 months.
He must have been very unlucky with the combination of channels he was trying to record and watch.
I guess the fact that he's never replied suggests that he had been unlucky.
The age of the image has nothing what so ever to do with the op's issue.Indirectly it does.
It's unlikely that anyone who can help will be running a 3.1 image, or anything close to it. So no-one will be in a position to look into possibilities.
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 20:25
It is not a round about way. Has nothing to do with luck.
A tuner allows you to tune to a frequency/transponder. If you have two tuners, you can only tune to two of those. Irrespective of how many services there are on those frequencies/TPs.
N.B.
A single tuner receiver can record more than one channel at a time. Obviously same limitation applies.
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 20:28
Indirectly it does.
It's unlikely that anyone who can help will be running a 3.1 image, or anything close to it. So no-one will be in a position to look into possibilities.
It does not. The limitations/deciding factor is are whatis on the TP/Frequency. No matter what image you use, that won't change.
It is not a round about way. Has nothing to do with luck.
A tuner allows you to tune to a frequency/transponder. If you have two tuners, you can only tune to two of those. Irrespective of how many services there are on those frequencies/TPs.
N.B.
A single tuner receiver can record more than one channel at a time. Obviously same limitation applies.I would call "unlucky" the OP using a box for over 2 months and not been able to record 2 channels and view a third, when, under certain circumstances it does work.
I'm amazed that the simple statement that 3.1 is an old image can cause such negative comments.
The OP has only had the box for 2 months, so surely it's in his own interest to be advised that he is currently using software which is no longer available to download.
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 21:10
So if he uses a more recent images, his luck will improve? Somehow the new image will move the service onto different transponders?
You are right, he will benefit from using a more recent image. But that won't solve his problem.
1.
Number of tuners with signal wires = number of transponders/frequencies you can access (number of channels varies on these). FBC tuners and unicable LNBs are a different issue
2.
EPG = EPG
Bouquets = Bouquets
The fact that they interact with each other does not nullify this fact. My child puts her lunch box in her bag. When she gets the lunch box, she has to get her bag. When she gets her bag, her lunch box is in there. Does that mean we should accept lunch box = bag?
The people who insist on confusing others by mixing the two terms should run the tests specified for them to dispel the misunderstanding they have.
There is nothing more to add.
You are not reading my posts - not surprising I guess.
If the answer to the question "Is it technically possible to record 2 programmes and watch a 3rd" is
"Yes, but it will depend on which transponders you're using"
then I say for the very last time that he must have been very unlucky to have tried for over 2 months but on every occasion had used 3 different transponders (because that is why it wouldn't have worked).
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 21:22
You are not reading my posts - not surprising I guess
I am reading your posts. They were not applicable.
If you have an issue with me, report the matter to Admin.
abu baniaz
05-10-16, 21:33
Because 10 seconds prior to that post being made some one deleted my other post I had just made in this very thread.
Nobody deleted your post. It was moved.
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?53038-Larrys-posts&p=419472&viewfull=1#post419472
Although I agree with the sentiment of what you said, that kind of comment is not allowed as per the rules.
Nobody deleted your post. It was moved.
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?53038-Larrys-posts&p=419472&viewfull=1#post419472
Although I agree with the sentiment of what you said, that kind of comment is not allowed as per the rules.
Funny how there now inappropriate after I left the "team" even though I have been making the same damn posts for over 5 years.
Indirectly it does.
It's unlikely that anyone who can help will be running a 3.1 image, or anything close to it. So no-one will be in a position to look into possibilities.
Not every one uses the latest and greatest and it's still irrelevant to this thread as the issue is not image related.
then I say for the very last time that he must have been very unlucky to have tried for over 2 months but on every occasion had used 3 different transponders (because that is why it wouldn't have worked).Up until a few months back there was an issue with the TimerSanity check code for a timer that meant it incorrectly flagged that there would be no tuner free - when there would.
All this required was to (roughly) have one long timer overlap two others.
It took my box 15 months to hit it. Once it had it hit it every few days.
It really depends on the timing of series that you record.
then I say for the very last time that he must have been very unlucky to have tried for over 2 months but on every occasion had used 3 different transponders (because that is why it wouldn't have worked).
Possibly not that unlucky. With so few channels on each transponder and/or the channels being duplicates of each other (regional variations of the same channel on the same transponder) I'm not surprised that the OP often cannot find anything to watch on the transponders being used for recordings. UK terrestrial via an aerial is somewhat different in this respect because there are many more, and varied, channels on each MUX. Furthermore all regional variations are not crammed into the MUXs thus minimising duplicate information. Only a small sub set of the regional channels is on on each transmitter.
I often see no free tuner when trying to watch live TV on satellite when recording 2 HD channels but then my fall back is to switch to my 3rd and 4th tuners which are connected to UK terrestrial via an aerial. I prefer satellite because of the way HD satellite surround sound audio is handled by AV amp but I usually use the terrestrial tuners for auto timer recording of SD channels to keep the satellite tuners free for live/timeshift TV.
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