VU announces 2 new 4k-boxes at the Anga [Archive] - Satellite Support Forum .: Home of OpenViX Team:.

Andy_Hazza

07-06-16, 22:06

If its anything like the Vu+ Solo 4K, won't be till September/October at the earliest. But thats just guess work. Hopefully Vu+ will announce something soon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bassethound

08-06-16, 10:30

Going to be over priced and crippled by bad support from VU+

DaMacFunkin

08-06-16, 11:51

Yes I have to say that My solo4k is the least favourite, and slowest of my VU+ boxes.

Andy_Hazza

08-06-16, 11:57

The Vu+ Ultimo 4K receiver looks nice.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

twol

08-06-16, 12:10

Yes I have to say that My solo4k is the least favourite, and slowest of my VU+ boxes.

Which is kind of surprising as the Broadcom chip is real smart and fast ....... as a 1080P box it should be really hot, especially with the transcoding availability (Yes, I know its directed at the 2160 market)
Any feelings as to why its slower? fbc tuners, 2160 processing?

2stein

08-06-16, 13:41

anybody interested in prices?
they said: starting at 599€ for the ultimo 4k.

twol

08-06-16, 15:02

anybody interested in prices?
they said: starting at 599€ for the ultimo 4k.

I guess not surprised, as Vu+ obviously think they have a killer product with 4K/fbc tuners, which is why I was so interested in DaMacfunkin,s comments ....
Xtrend appear to be going with the Broadcom chip, but no fbc tuner etc - so will be interesting to see what Gigablue announce. I would love Edision to get into this E3/4K marketspace as they could offer more capabilities and perhaps even decent service compared to the Korean outfits.

john doe

08-06-16, 15:27

i don't think people will be rushing to buy. as the solo4k has been a bit of a disappointment. unless major update to drivers is sorted

twol

08-06-16, 15:43

i don't think people will be rushing to buy. as the solo4k has been a bit of a disappointment. unless major update to drivers is sorted
Well maybe :)
On this WEB site and one other there has been some harsh comments, on others you don't see it - they just seem to love VU+ whatever they dump on them:)

DaMacFunkin

08-06-16, 15:47

Which is kind of surprising as the Broadcom chip is real smart and fast ....... as a 1080P box it should be really hot, especially with the transcoding availability (Yes, I know its directed at the 2160 market)
Any feelings as to why its slower? fbc tuners, 2160 processing?

I don't use the fbc tuners, I use bello 1080 skin, nfs installed and have a couple of sundtek tuners installed and that's it - reflashing, software update or just enigma2 restart takes at least twice as long as solo2, I think the amount of patches to make it 'fit' weighs it down.

DaMacFunkin

08-06-16, 15:49

I certainly won't be buying one unless 24hz works properly, if it does then I may have an ultiomo.

Rob van der Does

08-06-16, 16:17

.... so will be interesting to see what Gigablue announce. .....
AFAIK GB only announced the Quad 4k, see

http://www.gigablue.de/portfolio-item/gigablue-uhd-quad-4k-2/

john doe

08-06-16, 16:55

it took ages to get openvix image on the solo4k, does anyone know if this will be the same for the uno4k and ultimo 4k?

Ev0

08-06-16, 17:02

so will be interesting to see what Gigablue announce.

They announced the Quad 4K as Rob said.

According to another site that wrote a brief article on it last night, it has the same cpu as the Uno 4k.

Sicilian

08-06-16, 17:12

it took ages to get openvix image on the solo4k, does anyone know if this will be the same for the uno4k and ultimo 4k?

That was due to fbc stuff being added, I should imagine would be less work, but not known at this stage.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rob van der Does

08-06-16, 18:56

What strikes me, is that for the UNO there is no mentioning about PVR/HDD, so it looks like the box has no option for an internal HDD. As opposed to the Ultimo that can hold 2.5" & 3.5" HDD's.

Sicilian

08-06-16, 19:00

What strikes me, is that for the UNO there is no mentioning about PVR/HDD, so it looks like the box has no option for an internal HDD. As opposed to the Ultimo that can hold 2.5" & 3.5" HDD's.

No internal storage facility on uno 4K.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

judge

08-06-16, 19:12

Are the full specs for these boxes floating about?

Rob van der Does

08-06-16, 19:16

What more specs are you looking for (then the ones in post #1)?

judge

08-06-16, 19:39

What more specs are you looking for (then the ones in post #1)?

ah, didn't spot the PDFs...

Bazzer

08-06-16, 20:56

Any news on the Mutant 4k if it will be has good has the HD2400 i can,t wait.

Rob van der Does

09-06-16, 03:22

Mutant 4k will probably be the same as the Xtrend ET12000 (so a budget model), but we haven't heard or seen anything about it (yet?).

Rob van der Does

09-06-16, 03:30

No internal storage facility on uno 4K.
Then it is very strange the box has no eSATA-connection (neither does the Ultimo 4k).

Ev0

09-06-16, 08:16

Then it is very strange the box has no eSATA-connection (neither does the Ultimo 4k).

Probably have to use either a usb hdd or nas then

2stein

09-06-16, 09:01

Andy_Hazza

09-06-16, 09:13

i've started to use my new panasonic uhd tv for viewing tv channels, and only use my duo2 as a disk recorder. so, when it's time to replace the duo2 i will probably go away from vu+ and buy a cheaper e2 box.

I can't think of anything worse than using the standard interface from the tv manufactures to view your channels. Yuk. I have an LG 4K OLED and that is pants. lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rob van der Does

09-06-16, 11:26

Probably have to use either a usb hdd or nas then
Yep, and as it's a USB 3.0 connection that will be no problem at all.

Huevos

09-06-16, 12:20

On this WEB site and one other there has been some harsh comments, on others you don't see it - they just seem to love VU+ whatever they dump on them:)Well at OpenPLi none of the team had any Unicable 2 hardware so were unaware of a lot the driver problems. Here at OpenViX 3 of the team have Unicable 2 hardware so we are able to test objectively. And it is only due to our insistence that a solution was found.

2stein

09-06-16, 12:48

I can't think of anything worse than using the standard interface from the tv manufactures to view your channels. Yuk. I have an LG 4K OLED and that is pants. lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
yes, i have heard similar opinions about LG's webos.
panasonic has firefox os... which imho is not so bad... the basic interface is similar to e2 (lacking skins, channel icons... but what the heck).. i got used to it pretty fast.
hbbtv works perfectly... you have netflix, amazon, watchever apps on the tv... it even has a sat-ip client and server integrated... so the only thing missing are more than 2 tuners for recording.
so, for me any cheap non-4K e2 box with 1 fbc tuner or 4 conventional tuners will be good enough as dvr.
not planning to buy expensive high-end boxes anymore.

Andy_Hazza

09-06-16, 13:20

I love the WebOS but the rv guide for terrestrial/satellite is horrendous.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Andy_Hazza

09-06-16, 13:21

The new WebOS suppose to improve things I've been told. We will see.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Silent

11-06-16, 08:57

Rob van der Does

11-06-16, 09:06

There are a few 4k services, also on 28.2. But that's not worth (yet?) to buy a 4k box for.
Media playback is of increasing importance; VP9 & HEVC are becoming commonly used codecs quite rapidly.

But: 4k STB's are in their infancy. Also the used SoC's are (e.g. the SoC of the Solo 4k is not VP9 capable, therefore Broadcom introduced an enhanced version, which will be available in several newly announced STB's).
In other words: IMHO 4k is not worth the upgrade (yet). But if you're looking for a new box, you should definitely also look at 4k boxes (at least in a couple of months).

DaMacFunkin

11-06-16, 09:29

Just out of interest, what are you guys using the 4K E2 boxes for primarily? Are there 4K channels on the continent which work with them, or is it more just for media playback which you've obtained elsewhere?

Well I'm currently watching France v Romania from last night in 4K that I recorded off 42e (Turkish).
It was also available on Portuguese tv, Italian and Arabsat.
Note no matches from the euros will be shown on UK tv.

rossi2000

11-06-16, 10:01

are there any more 4k feeds of the euros?

Stanman

11-06-16, 10:51

Well I'm currently watching France v Romania from last night in 4K that I recorded off 42e (Turkish).
It was also available on Portuguese tv, Italian and Arabsat.
Note no matches from the euros will be shown on UK tv.
Which channel?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Ev0

11-06-16, 11:09

are there any more 4k feeds of the euros?

I heard there is a test channel on 13e thats showing some of the euro games in UHD

rossi2000

11-06-16, 11:57

42e , 30w, 13e and 5w i know of so far, but only 13e and 5w come in for me, stupid trees.

Ev0

11-06-16, 12:26

42e , 30w, 13e and 5w i know of so far, but only 13e and 5w come in for me, stupid trees.

Yeh I hate the trees at this time of year, as I loose, 42e, 39e, 26e, 21.6e, 19.2e, and 16e

Stanman

11-06-16, 13:22

Damm wish I had 4K but gonna wait until next generation. Read Robs post and 4K doesn't support some codecs - what plonkers are vu!

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Silent

11-06-16, 13:28

That's what I thought. When the channels go live on 28.2 (presumably via Sky), you'd think they'd use the same pairing methods as Sky HD and therefore not work anyway. I'd imagine Sky will hold off as long as possible giving Virgin access to the channels.

BeIN MENA here is broadcasting the Euros in 4K on 25.5e but again as far as I know they use a card pairing method which means you can only use their box. I've not looked into it as I'm in an apartment with no satellite point so until I move somewhere else it doesn't effect me. Plus unless you're in southern Europe you're not going to pick it up anyway.

twol

11-06-16, 13:58

Read Robs post and 4K doesn't support some codecs - what plonkers are vu!

Actually clever, in so far they siezed a market opportunity by going early and selling (I guess) quite a few receivers based on having the first 4K box. The fact that it doesn,t support all the codecs is the customers problem - buyer beware:)

john doe

11-06-16, 14:27

looks like Mutant 4k could be out very soon. seen cable one at £249 euros

http://mutant-digital.net/?author=1

Larry-G

11-06-16, 14:31

Actually clever, in so far they siezed a market opportunity by going early and selling (I guess) quite a few receivers based on having the first 4K box. The fact that it doesn,t support all the codecs is the customers problem - buyer beware:)

Thats kind of the point. First to be able to brag of having a working 4K receiver for general sale and First to real in every dozy plonker who thinks the sun shines out of Vu's collective #####.

They know exactly who their target market are and exactly how to get them on the hook, more fool the dozy plonkers who buy into it before doing their homework if you ask me.

Ev0

11-06-16, 14:47

Thats kind of the point. First to be able to brag of having a working 4K receiver for general sale and First to real in every dozy plonker who thinks the sun shines out of Vu's collective #####.

They know exactly who their target market are and exactly how to get them on the hook, more fool the dozy plonkers who buy into it before doing their homework if you ask me.

If thats what they did (and I say IF, as I can not remember is VP9 was a codec at the time the Solo4K was announced or launched), then it is no different from what Samsung, Pansasonic, LG, etc etc have all done with tv's.

There will always be stuff pushed to market before final standards are set and agreed on, but as you know with technology if you wait before you jump in, you will be waiting forever and never get anything as it is always changing.

Rob van der Does

11-06-16, 14:52

Actually clever, in so far they siezed a market opportunity by going early and selling (I guess) quite a few receivers based on having the first 4K box. The fact that it doesn,t support all the codecs is the customers problem - buyer beware:)
Indeed: exactly the same issues as with early 4k TV's (those were even worse: didn't even support HEVC :( ).
And less early models with HDR.
And so on....

Andy_Hazza

11-06-16, 14:53

looks like Mutant 4k could be out very soon. seen cable one at £249 euros

http://mutant-digital.net/?author=1

Bit steep for a "supposedly" budget box init?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rob van der Does

11-06-16, 14:54

If thats what they did (and I say IF, as I can not remember is VP9 was a codec at the time the Solo4K was announced or launched), ......
Well, when you are the first to launch a new generation (STB/TV/whatever) you surely know you'll run behind the facts in no time.

Rob van der Does

11-06-16, 14:56

...£249 euros....
So you mean £249 or €249? Quite a difference these days.
IMHO €249 is not too bad for a budget 4k twin tuner. And I'm sure prices will drop within the year, as they always do.

john doe

11-06-16, 14:59

So you mean £249 or €249? Quite a difference these days.
IMHO €249 is not too bad for a budget 4k twin tuner. And I'm sure prices will drop within the year, as they always do.

249,00 € (euros). looks like it come out this month

john doe

11-06-16, 15:05

[QUOTE=Andy_Hazza;405922]Bit steep for a "supposedly" budget box init?

that's a descent price. especially with the spec

Larry-G

11-06-16, 15:07

If thats what they did (and I say IF, as I can not remember is VP9 was a codec at the time the Solo4K was announced or launched), then it is no different from what Samsung, Pansasonic, LG, etc etc have all done with tv's.

There will always be stuff pushed to market before final standards are set and agreed on, but as you know with technology if you wait before you jump in, you will be waiting forever and never get anything as it is always changing.

I'm not just picking on Vu+ here by any means just pointing out that all tech companies really do know exactly who their target market are and where ever possible will always try to out do their competitors by releasing their product as a world first to real in both existing users of their kit and new ones.

I still think that the oneness is on the user to do their homework and not jump head first in without doing a little research, especially with new or largely unfinalized formats. Afterall for most people without deep pockets such a purchase will be a once in a decade type of deal.

Andy_Hazza

11-06-16, 15:12

I like by FBC tuner setup now, don't think I can go back to the bog standard tuners. [emoji85]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rob van der Does

11-06-16, 15:22

I like by FBC tuner setup now, ...
Absolutely, but there's more to it to be a good STB. After all this time the box is still in it's infancy, and tbh: I'm far from sure if it will ever be mature.
Only hope is that VU has learned from this and that their new 4k boxes will have less flaws.

DaMacFunkin

11-06-16, 15:52

Which channel?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

TRT4k it was the only channel on that mux so the bitrate was top notch.

DaMacFunkin

11-06-16, 16:01

Damm wish I had 4K but gonna wait until next generation. Read Robs post and 4K doesn't support some codecs - what plonkers are vu!

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Not really because it already been agreed that HEVC265 would be the broadcast standard for 4k in the foreseeable future, there won't be any 4k broadcast TV channels in the near future that use anything else... VP9 is googles own 4k codec and as such it requires licensing and as there is really only you tube that use it why bother? Believe me my TV supports VP9 and there is nothing on YouTube worth watching, anything that ever will be will require a subscription and then What happens when Google release VP10 which is already in the pipe line? More new hardware, more new licensing.
As with all e2 boxes, box for watching TV, seperate box if you are serious about media files, although the 24p situation is piss poor I agree.

Rob van der Does

11-06-16, 16:06

2stein

11-06-16, 18:17

You have a point there; and that's exactly what I always said myself :)
But nevertheless: buying a first generation device is always a risk.
and i learned it as well... an e2 box will never be the only all-in-one multimedia box in the living room.
but then those 4K boxes are way too expensive for what they deliver.

DaMacFunkin

11-06-16, 18:44

That's subjective really, you can buy a car that can do 120mph for £15,000, but if you want a car that can do 140mph it may cost you £35,000 - is 20mph more worth £20,000, no but that's what the extra tech costs so that's what you have to pay.

Rob van der Does

12-06-16, 06:19

and i learned it as well... an e2 box will never be the only all-in-one multimedia box in the living room.
but then those 4K boxes are way too expensive for what they deliver.
True. As long as broadcasting is largely done in HD (and even SD) there is no specific reason to buy a 4k box. Especially not in this phase; maybe when more hit the market, quality rises and prices drop (in the end all boxes will be 4k, just as all TV's, whether there is UHD broadcast or not), it will be an other story. Might even be quite soon.

2stein

12-06-16, 08:12

Might even be quite soon.
yes, think so too. at some point in time soon, 4k chips will become as cheap or cheaper than non-4K (due to higher chip production volume).
but maybe more value than 4k comes from fbc tuners. too bad they are not yet in tvs.

Andy_Hazza

12-06-16, 08:17

Why would you want FBC in TVs now? TV Manufactures can't even get a good TV interface right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2stein

12-06-16, 08:40

tv interfaces are getting better as well. my tv has a dual-tuner which is not enough for recording. just one fbc tuner (with 4 virtual tuners) would suffice for me and probably a lot of others.

Stanman

12-06-16, 09:44

TRT4k it was the only channel on that mux so the bitrate was top notch.
In Vh list as could not find any.

Might get 2nd feed from sat to TV.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

twol

12-06-16, 10:47

tv interfaces are getting better as well. my tv has a dual-tuner which is not enough for recording. just one fbc tuner (with 4 virtual tuners) would suffice for me and probably a lot of others.
Had dual tuners in my Panasonics for the last 10 years, but never used (except to check they worked) because they have no facility like ABM :)
Component cost, complexity - most manufacturers are only after mass production, commodity products where they can make margin.
Maybe by the time we get to say the LG Oled panels that are basically a thin film that be applied and removed from a wall, and the electronics are in a separate box, then maybe we will see some innovation.

E2 receivers are bought not because of their brilliant technology compared to non E2 receivers, but because the Enigma software adds choice/flexibility that is not available otherwise :)

Rob van der Does

12-06-16, 11:23

.... but because the Enigma software adds choice/flexibility that is not available otherwise :)
Thanks to the Open Source software, the large community and even the option to change things yourself.
No paid IT-devs, with a commercial department being the boss, could possibly match that.

DaMacFunkin

12-06-16, 12:21

In Vh list as could not find any.

Might get 2nd feed from sat to TV.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalkunless you can pick up Mena there are no more matches in 4k till the quarters, then every match will be 4k.
At the moment TRT4k is on a western beam and fta 42e 12615H, 12500 3/4, 8spk. if you have a meo subscription you could pick up RTP 4k on 30w or if you have a tivusat card you could get the Rai test channel on 13e, someone reported the bit rate on this channel wasn't very good but it had the option to turn off commentary.
Like I said it is a few weeks now till the quarters so plenty of time to get sorted.

Rob van der Does

13-06-16, 14:08

As with all e2 boxes, box for watching TV, seperate box if you are serious about media files,

You have a point there; and that's exactly what I always said myself :)
But nevertheless: buying a first generation device is always a risk.
Well, on second thought: I've been told that using an arm-SoC it should be possible to add (software) codecs. If that's true, any E2-box could be just as good as any 'real' mediaplayer.
So far this dowsn't show on the Solo-4k.....

DaMacFunkin

13-06-16, 18:17

Maybe it just needs "other" support, I know my Nvidia Shield needed a major rewrite of Google TV to enable 24hz, also the box is supposed to be getting an update from HDMI 2 to 2.0a to support HDR, in fact on the brown shipping box it clearly says HDR, now as there are no HDR broadcasts it could only mean apps such as Netflix...?
My TV, Samsung UHD blu Ray and nvidia shield are all due to get HDR10 support from Netflix this summer.

Ev0

13-06-16, 18:24

Rob van der Does

13-06-16, 19:59

No: HDR will not be on broadcast.
There is an experimental service with a kind of HDR; I think a proposed change by BBC and others. For that no HDMI2.0a is required.
Maybe BlueRay 4k has HDR? And an increasing number of streams has (just as VP9).

john doe

27-09-16, 16:53

Anyone heard anything more specific on the Uno4k/Ultimo4k launch dates?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mi2VOYGiP0

I bet with the price you could buy your own super yacht

nsw9154

27-09-16, 18:35

twol

27-09-16, 19:12

i am still sitting on the fence with this one i want a new bigger TV probably a 50/55" as my 32" is now to small but sorting out a Decent 4k TV is like walking through a minefield i need 4 HDMI inputs as my current TV only has 3 HDMI inputs and i have to use a switch box but there are not many 4K TV's out their that have 4 HDMI's as most only have 2 or 3 and then their is the bigger problem of sorting out a 4K Receiver that actually works the way it is supposed to without costing more than my new Motorbike :eek:

I also like good sound, so I let my Onkyo receivers do all the hdmi switching .... so the current lounge Onkyo receiver has 4 x 4k inputs plus 4 "normal" inputs.... so I am not restricted by the TV (which is a "normal" Panasonic plasma)

Eventually when a decent reasonable price Enigma receiver comes out, I will try on my office 4K monitor and if it works well then think about the only current 4k TV option LG (or a brand using their Oled screens,)

Comfysofa

20-10-16, 14:38

i am still sitting on the fence with this one i want a new bigger TV probably a 50/55" as my 32" is now to small but sorting out a Decent 4k TV is like walking through a minefield i need 4 HDMI inputs as my current TV only has 3 HDMI inputs and i have to use a switch box but there are not many 4K TV's out their that have 4 HDMI's as most only have 2 or 3 and then their is the bigger problem of sorting out a 4K Receiver that actually works the way it is supposed to without costing more than my new Motorbike :eek:

I dunno - i spend quite a bit on bikes!! if anything i reckon the price of TV's (for what you get has dropped quite a lot) im in the market soon for a 4k and Samsung still seems to be the best...

Andy_Hazza

20-10-16, 15:27

I dunno - i spend quite a bit on bikes!! if anything i reckon the price of TV's (for what you get has dropped quite a lot) im in the market soon for a 4k and Samsung still seems to be the best...

Samsung are certainly not the best. Glance your eye over to the beautiful LG OLED 4K, the picture quality is astounding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Comfysofa

20-10-16, 15:31

OLED is still pretty expensive from what i can see....looking in curry's/pcworld the other day....about 1500 quid is my limit in terms of price and quality...TBH that was for a 55" ish tv but that might be a bit big so the price would drop again....

Stanman

20-10-16, 17:00

Look at the 58 dx902b panasonic, you can JL to pricematch for 1580 with district electrical

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

twol

20-10-16, 17:23

I dunno - i spend quite a bit on bikes!! if anything i reckon the price of TV's (for what you get has dropped quite a lot) im in the market soon for a 4k and Samsung still seems to be the best...
Andy is correct, Samsung are not the best, by a loooong way.
The only player in town is Oled and that means LG or a brand that uses the LG Oled ( 5 +)

DaMacFunkin

20-10-16, 17:35

Samsung are certainly not the best. Glance your eye over to the beautiful LG OLED 4K, the picture quality is astounding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Andy I'm sure you love your TV and I'm sure it is really good, but just a quick Google will show two recent articles by respected sites/publications where a Samsung was chosen as best TV in a group test, one for HDR gaming, of which I have no interest, and one for best Home Cinema UHD HDR performance of which I have a lot of interest.
Oled is very exciting and in a few years time it may be the best thing since sliced bread, but high end FALD sets still take some beating.
Oi, same goes for you twol as well, lol.

Andy_Hazza

20-10-16, 17:43

Andy I'm sure you love your TV and I'm sure it is really good, but just a quick Google will show two recent articles by respected sites/publications where a Samsung was chosen as best TV in a group test, one for HDR gaming, of which I have no interest, and one for best Home Cinema UHD HDR performance of which I have a lot of interest.
Oled is very exciting and in a few years time it may be the best thing since sliced bread, but high end FALD sets still take some beating.
Oi, same goes for you twol as well, lol.

Yeah I know, everyone to there own. A couple of my friends went with Samsung and they regret it. I don't take much notice of reviews. I always go by what I see in store n take my own media to test, that's what I did when I bought my OLED, and I tried various tv's and every time I went back to the OLED, it just blew em away, just no comparison, but just my opinion, and my friends say the same. [emoji4]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

twol

20-10-16, 18:33

Andy I'm sure you love your TV and I'm sure it is really good, but just a quick Google will show two recent articles by respected sites/publications where a Samsung was chosen as best TV in a group test, one for HDR gaming, of which I have no interest, and one for best Home Cinema UHD HDR performance of which I have a lot of interest.
Oled is very exciting and in a few years time it may be the best thing since sliced bread, but high end FALD sets still take some beating.
Oi, same goes for you twol as well, lol.
Gaming I can undesrstand but home cinema, you must be joking there are not enough dimming zones on a samsung fald to handle a cinema picture correctly,. When you consider that Samsung spend more on marketing than the rest of the industry put together its not surprising that they get some good reviews.

Rob van der Does

21-10-16, 09:08

When you consider that Samsung spend more on marketing than the rest of the industry put together its not surprising that they get some good reviews.
And 'marketing' implies supplying devices for testers, which may be kept by the reviewer most of the times.