View Full Version : Widescreen (16:9) via Composite?
Hi All,
I purchased a Solo2 from WOS and it's a great box.
However, I pipe the signal around my house via a modulator and coax cable which looks like this:
Solo2 > Composite Out (yellow cable) > Modulator > Coax Cable > TV Tuner
No matter what I watch it only ever sends the picture to the TV's as a 4:3 ratio.
There doesn't seem to be any WSS via composite?
I tested WSS via scart and that works fine as it's pin 8 telling the TV the aspect ratio to use. (see http://www.skycopyplus.co.uk/skypluswss/wss.htm) there just doesn't seem to be any Line 23 information for WSS.
My Sky+HD box is able to "Widescreen Switch" via the same modulator and cables so that works fine on the same TV's.
Can anyone tell me if it's possible to get a Vu+ box to display a composite cable output as 16:9 natively? I want to leave the TV's in AUTO Aspect Ratio mode.
N.B. The box switches perfectly using HDMI too - it's just the Line 23 signal that seems to be lacking.
Does anyone have any knowledge on this? or can someone else test their box using a composite cable? make sure you have your TV in Auto Aspect mode though!
Rob van der Does
16-05-16, 16:25
I use composite (using the yellow cinch connection) in my caravan (with a very small TV) and it displays 16:9 without any issue.
Edit: not sure if my TV uses 'auto' or 'fixed 16:9' though.
Thanks for taking the time to reply Rob van der Does.
What box do you have? You would soon know if it was a 4:3 signal stretched to 16:9 ratio by the TV as it'd be cropping the picture and you'd be missing things like the channel DOG on the channels that have it.
Rob van der Does
16-05-16, 17:40
I used the Solo2 in the caravan. But tbh: I only watched HD-services, so obviously they were all in 16:9.
Composite video is just that - video. It doesn't contain any control signals. You will have to tell your tv to display the video in 16:9 format.
Composite video is just that - video. It doesn't contain any control signals. You will have to tell your tv to display the video in 16:9 format.
Not true - widescreen switching (WSS) should be output on line 23 of a PAL frame of composite video. Usually the conversion from digital to analogue video should identify widescreen (16:9) aspect ratio and insert the correct control signal. It may be that the VU Solo2 is not doing this correctly, either through a driver/firmware issue or it may not be capable. Maybe someone with a Solo2 could test?
Thanks for clarifying that Tony. Its a bad day that you don't learn something new. Anyway I connected my solo2 to my sony tv and it works. I set auto resolution on and it switched between 16:9 and 4:3 as it should so nothing wrong with the drivers.
Edit: Just to add - I set the video output to Scart + YPbPr
Thanks for clarifying that Tony. Its a bad day that you don't learn something new. Anyway I connected my solo2 to my sony tv and it works. I set auto resolution on and it switched between 16:9 and 4:3 as it should so nothing wrong with the drivers.
Edit: Just to add - I set the video output to Scart + YPbPr
@ronand - thanks for testing and proving that the Solo2 outputs the WSS on composite. Maybe the OP has some slightly different setup which is not working for him/her? Rob makes a good point in that all HD channels output 16:9 at all times and the broadcaster "pillar boxes" the occasional older 4:3 output in the 16:9 frame so there is no need for switching. For SD channels there is still the need to flag widescreen output, but the box "should" be doing that. I'll test my Miraclebox on composite and see if it works. I know my GB Quad Plus handles 4:3 and 16:9 switching on component video as that is the mode I use most often. Haven't tried composite as the picture quality is pretty rubbish.
Rob van der Does
17-05-16, 04:48
Edit: Just to add - I set the video output to Scart + YPbPr
But OP was interested in composite; that's when the WSS-signal on scart should work.
I did use composite output cables (yellow/white/red). That's the video setting I selected as there is no specific setting for composite video.
SCART setting will be fine for composite - no specific setting for composite on my receiver either. I spent an hour testing composite on my Miraclebox Twin. Having disconnected HDMI lead from my Sony TV, I set it for auto (Smart) screen on the AV3 input. Switched fine between 16:9 (adverts) and 4:3 (Frasier) on Channel 4 SD during programmes or on recording as expected. Same with the other usual Freesat channels showing old TV series in 4:3 format. The only thing I had to change on the Miraclebox receiver was the screen position and size for the menu (on-screen display) as the AV input on the Sony overscans slightly and you can't set it to "exact pixel" like on the HDMI or component inputs.
@Timbo - could it be that your TV is defaulting to 4:3 on the AV (composite) input? On my Sony every single input (there are 4 HDMI, one component set and one composite set) has a separate settings entry to handle screen ratios, screen overscan etc. I don't think it's a problem with the Solo2 as @ronand has tested his.
Rob van der Does
17-05-16, 12:18
Indeed, as Tony said: normally TV's have separate settings per input. Sometimes one can choose to activate the same settings for all inputs.
Thank you guys so much for your testing. I am wondering if the key is "PAL widescreen switching" as I seem to remember putting my Solo2 box into "multi" mode rather than selecting 50hz (PAL) or 60hz (NTSC). Would this stop the WSS on Line 23 from being sent to the TV via the composite cable it it had defaulted to 60hz?
Hopefully it's my setup that is wrong and it's great to hear that other people are able to get it to work - it means (99%) that it's something I am doing and not a hardware limitation of the box itself.
I'll test it when i get home tonight and report back.
Another thought is the Modulator - would that have any bearing on it? Although the Sky+HD box uses the same modulator and WSS's no problem.
Recap:
Solo2 > Composite out (yellow cable) > Modulator > Coax Cable > TV Tuner (No WSS)
Sky+HD > Composite out (yellow cable) > Modulator > Coax Cable > TV Tuner (WSS works fine)
The Modulator in use is a 4 channel modulator so it's the same unit in both examples - I have even swapped the cables between the boxes but the same outcome occurs - So I fail to see how it can be the modulator, but I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong :)
Rob van der Does
17-05-16, 17:33
50/60Hz/Multi can't have anything to do with 4:3/16:9/WSS.
Rob van der Does
17-05-16, 17:42
Just setup Solo2 --> Composite (yellow cinch, multi) --> Sony TV: when zapping between 16:9 & 3:4 services the TV-picture switches perfectly.
Maybe you could try the same (so without the modulator)?
Sorry, I didn't get time to test it last night but just wondering which image you have installed on your Solo2 that works on the yellow cable?
Would the image have any bearing on the problem of WSS switching?
Rob van der Does
18-05-16, 10:49
ViX 4.1.009
I think WSS is driver-driven, not E2; not sure though.
As Rob says - unlikely to be image related. It's almost certainly a setting error on your side somewhere. Try a direct connection. Won't (shouldn't) be the modulator, though as that just takes the video and audio and modulates an RF carrier with it. Usual issues with modulators are with the sound sub carrier being on the wrong offset spacing (PAL-G vs PAL-I as used in UK/Ireland).
Just remembered, at home I am using a Scart to RCA adapter to convert into the Modulator.
One of these 48210 - That's not going to matter is it? (I'm using one on the Sky+HD box too so that's exactly the same setup cable wise)
No - that adapter just connects the L and R audio and the composite pins from SCART to the phono sockets.
Just remembered, at home I am using a Scart to RCA adapter to convert into the Modulator.
One of these 48210 - That's not going to matter is it? (I'm using one on the Sky+HD box too so that's exactly the same setup cable wise)
Another thought - will having a HDMI cable attached at the same time stop / suppress the WSS-flag from being sent down the analogue cable?
Another thought - will having a HDMI cable attached at the same time stop / suppress the WSS-flag from being sent down the analogue cable?
No - you're clutching at straws at this stage ;) Just test a direct connection from the receiver to the TV composite AV input and play with the settings on the TV :)
haha - I've been clutching at straws since I noticed I had this problem with the Vu+ Solo2 and not the Sky+HD box when using the same cables / ports etc.
What is the video output on the solo2 set to? HDMI?
Rob van der Does
18-05-16, 16:52
As I said before: just use a single yellow cable to connect the box directly to the TV; then you're sure it's (not) the modulator.
OK guys - ready for this?
Spent hours last night going through all the various possibilities with the Solo2 box, LG TV and cables. I used BBC One HD as the channel to test each scenario with as being a HD channel is by default outputted at 16:9. Apologies for the glare on the TV screen - it was a bit sunny yesterday evening.
Here are the results (basically, I still stand by my first post about WSS only seeming to occur when using a SCART cable (PIN 8??) and not when using the RCA cable):
LG TV Set to output ORIGINAL for all Ports = 48217
Solo2 Information = 48223
Test 1) Solo2 > SCART 21 pin cable > TV SCART SOCKET
Rear Connections on Solo2 = 48216
LG TV Output = 48218
RESULT = ALL WORKING OK AS EXPECTED
Test 2) Solo2 > SCART to RCA Adapter > Yellow RCA Cable > TV Yellow RCA Socket
Rear Conenctions on Solo2 = 48219
LG TV Output = 48220
RESULT = OUTPUT DISPLAYED INCORRECTLY AS 4:3 (black bars down sides)
Test 3) Solo2 > Yellow RCA Socket > RCA Cable > TV Yellow RCA Socket
Rear Connections on Solo2 = 48222
LG TV Output = 48221
RESULT = OUTPUT DISPLAYED INCORRECTLY AS 4:3 (black bars down sides)
HELP! Can anyone with it working on a Solo2 provide a backup image that I can try on my box? Or at least provide screenshots of their "A/V Settings" in Setup so I can copy them?
Not that it might help, but if you want more people to reproduce, use a current image, not an old build.
Forgot to mention that I thought it might be the Image so I installed the latest ViX image from www.openvix.co.uk - 4.1.009 - the issue still occured and the version of driver (kernel) was the same.
In the AV settings on the solo2 what is the output set as? I used the yellow rca socket without problem.
Also you are using AV1 for both scart and composite on your TV? On my TVs (and any others I have seen) these are separate inputs.
Rob van der Does
19-05-16, 12:28
I can only repeat that using one single yellow cinch connection between my Solo2 and my Sony TV switching between 3:4 & 16:9 works as expected. I didn't even setup anything analogue output related: my A/V-settings remained untouched on HDMI/1080p/multi.
Also you are using AV1 for both scart and composite on your TV? On my TVs (and any others I have seen) these are separate inputs.
I think I uploaded the wrong photo... but the results were the same - even on AV2 (i think it was)
I think I uploaded the wrong photo... but the results were the same - even on AV2 (i think it was)
As per @ronand's reply - AV1, AV2 and AV3 are physically separate connections on my TV also. AV1 is SCART, AV2 is S-Video and AV3 is the composite. You should use connection-specific settings on the TV rather than the same for everything. On my HDMI input I use "exact pixel" so there is no overscan. On AV3 I use "wide" as the default and the picture switches between widescreen and 4:3 as the broadcaster changes aspect ratio. I think the ViX info screen for the broadcast channel will always show 16:9 as the screen ratio as this is derived from the satellite/cable/terrestrial meta data transmitted. It is the actual video stream content data that will switch from 16:9 to 4:3 as necessary.
Try setting your AV2 (or whatever) to "full wide" and flick from channel to channel - usually CBS Action or one of the low-budget channels will be showing 4:3 material through the day. (or Channel 4 from 08:00 - 10:30)
I can only repeat that using one single yellow cinch connection between my Solo2 and my Sony TV switching between 3:4 & 16:9 works as expected. I didn't even setup anything analogue output related: my A/V-settings remained untouched on HDMI/1080p/multi.
I've clearly set a setting somewhere.. or the box is faulty (but can't see how).
Can anyone provide an image that works out of the box with a channel list that I can use to test on my setup? Google Drive or summat?
It doesn't take long to set up a fresh image using ABM (autobouquetmaker) to set up your channels.
Test 1 in #28 shows that the Solo2 SCART is working as expected.
Test 2 shows that when you put that same (working) signal through your RCA cable it stops working at the TV end.
So it's not the Solo2 failing.
Do you have another RCA cable?
Rob van der Does
19-05-16, 18:20
Well, in test #1 it can be the WSS-signal on the dedicated scart-pin, which is not being used when using only the yellow cable.
Anyway: IMHO a TV issue, as it works perfect here.
Well, in test #1 it can be the WSS-signal on the dedicated scart-pin, which is not being used when using only the yellow cable.
Anyway: IMHO a TV issue, as it works perfect here.
And how do you explain that it works fine and switches between 16:9 and 4:3 depending on the broadcaster signal with the Sky+HD box using the same cables, same ports, same TV?
I can feel a video coming on to demonstrate the problem.
Rob van der Does
20-05-16, 13:00
I can't. But I can't reproduce the problem here either.
I can't. But I can't reproduce the problem here either.
At least you are trying to help me - thank mate.
OK Guys,
I have figured it out and it was the TV setting "ORIGINAL"
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48217&d=1463646306
that was causing the problem with the Solo2 - However, I have it on ORIGINAL for the Sky+HD box and that switches between 4:3 and 16:9 mode in ORIGINAL. Me changing it to 16:9 on each TV around the house sorted the issue.
I always thought that "ORIGINAL" (instead of hard setting it to 16:9) would select the screen size based on the output of the video cable - and with the Solo2 box supporting Line 23 WSS flags that the "Original" signal would be either 4:3 or 16:9 and the TV could switch as necessary (exactly as the Sky+HD box seemingly does)
The only thing I can think of is that the Sky+HD box has a setting (Settings / Picture) called "SCART / RF1 Picture Format" which is set to 16:9. Maybe that makes the TV's see the ORIGINAL output as 16:9 and me setting the TVs to 16:9 means the Solo2 box doesn't have to do that?
Anyway, It's sorted now, there isn't an issue / fault with the Solo2 - it just outputs differently via SCART / Composite compared to the Sky+HD box.
Thank you to everyone who spared their time to be involved in this thread and for your ideas and suggestions.
I suggested you change your TV setting from "original" to "full wide" (as per my Sony) back in post #35. Different settings for different inputs and all that.... In any case you have finally cracked it :thumbsup:
I suggested you change your TV setting from "original" to "full wide" (as per my Sony) back in post #35. Different settings for different inputs and all that.... In any case you have finally cracked it :thumbsup:
indeed you did, but I have never needed to do that before, even with the duo that the solo2 replaced. Which is why I was convinced that wasn't the issue.
you live and learn I guess.
Next question: Is there any way of getting a 1280 x 720 image to display full screen on a 576i display via a Solo2 box? zoom out plugin or something? I have an IP camera and the output is getting cropped via non-HD methods. Displays fine via HDMI on screens that support "just scan" / "overscan off"
Rob van der Does
22-05-16, 08:18
AFAIK all TV's use 'overscan' on all analogue inputs, without the option to disable that.
What you can do is to use an A/V-amplifier; connect the analogue video connection to the amp, and use an HDMI-lead to the TV. Now you can disable overscan on that HDMI-input.
AFAIK all TV's use 'overscan' on all analogue inputs, without the option to disable that.
What you can do is to use an A/V-amplifier; connect the analogue video connection to the amp, and use an HDMI-lead to the TV. Now you can disable overscan on that HDMI-input.
I was hoping there was something on the Solo2 box that would just do it - Auto Resolution in A/V Settings only seems to cover 720p resolutions and above.. I don't really want to add any extra hardware in each location but thank you for the idea.
Rob van der Does
23-05-16, 11:20
It's the TV to blame.
Anyway: isn't it about time to leave the horrible composite video quality (or better lack of quality) aside in these HD-days, and transport HD throughout the house? A whole different world of options (and quality). A LAN-connection and a9n old, tuner may even be defect) E2 box will do the trick.
It's the TV to blame.
Anyway: isn't it about time to leave the horrible composite video quality (or better lack of quality) aside in these HD-days, and transport HD throughout the house? A whole different world of options (and quality). A LAN-connection and a9n old, tuner may even be defect) E2 box will do the trick.
I agree totally, and I already do distribute the HD signal to certain TV's via Cat5e cables and a HDMI Matrix. This thread is about the TV's in my house which do not have these HDMI baluns as the Matrix is only a 4x4 (4 Sources, 4 Displays) and for these TV's not getting the HD signal I use a coax distribution system with RF Modulators. (Hence the issues (now resolved) highlighted above)
Each TV is situated / mounted where there is Coax and Cat5e structured cabling, I just cannot justify getting a bigger matrix (4x8 or 8x8) due to the costs involved - that and having a HD signal on the TV's that are 24" and smaller is not really necessary for the length of time spent viewing those TVs.
Thanks again.
Hi there, I have an xtrend7500 and it outputs via hdmi to the main tv but i also use the phono outs to connect to an rf modulator to connect a coax feed to the tv in the kitchen. now the picture thru hdmi is as fine showing full picture but for some reason thru the phono outs, on the screen in the kitchen connected by coax it outputs the epg screen with the picture box in the top right corner shoeing the channel which on the main tv is full picture. If anyone can help me it would be appreciated
Rob van der Does
04-01-17, 06:15
That seems to be correct then.
The TV that's fed via HDMI can be set (and probably has been set) to no overscan; the result should be a correct picture.
All other inputs on any TV, in your case the kitchen TV, can never be set to use no overscan. This means that all OSD will seem to be 'too large'.
There is a work-around for this, albeit not a nice one: set your main TV to use overscan, and adjust the OSD-size of the STB accordingly. Now the picture in the kitchen will be better, but probably not good (as overscan on analogue inputs is always a bit more then on digital inputs).
Hi there, I have an xtrend7500 and it outputs via hdmi to the main tv but i also use the phono outs to connect to an rf modulator to connect a coax feed to the tv in the kitchen. now the picture thru hdmi is as fine showing full picture but for some reason thru the phono outs, on the screen in the kitchen connected by coax it outputs the epg screen with the picture box in the top right corner shoeing the channel which on the main tv is full picture. If anyone can help me it would be appreciated
I have the same setup on my ET8500 to feed the tv in the kitchen. I set the front display settings to 'clone TV screen to LCD'. This works ok.
Rob van der Does
04-01-17, 19:42
???? This is not about the front display.
For some reason the TV (in the kitchen) connected through the phono outs and RF modulator, does not transmit what is on the main TV (connected via HDMI). As a work around I set the front display settings to 'clone TV screen to LCD' yes. If it is set to no then it shows an enlarged version of the picon and channel info and you cannot see the picture although you do get sound.
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