Need Help in Setting up to Thor

[Dicpenderyn]

Dear Gents,

I'm new to this malarkee and was wondering if anyone could possibly help me??

I recently bought a Vu+ Solo2 and it works beautifully set to astra 28.2 etc.

I've now bought a motor and I'm trying to set it up to Thor. The main issue I'm having is finding Thor. I'm using an iphone app and meter and pointing to 0.8 intelsat 10-02. The meter says I'm getting a signal but I don't seem to get anything on the Vu box, I mean I can't see a signal. If I've aligned it correctly, should I see the strength of signal in satfinder or do I have to tell the box that it's meant to be using Thor/ perform some kind of scan?

I have 60cm Dish (small I know)
Vu+ Solo2 running Vix Alliance 2.3/3.13.5
Quad LNB

Any Kind of help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Rich

PS..Apologies if I've posted this in the incorrect location...

[The Lambton Worm]

Looks like you need to set one of your tuners to Usals and enter your longitude & latitude.

[Dicpenderyn]

Hi Lambton,

Thank you for your reply!!

So say I think I'm pointing the dish in the right direction, do I need to tell the box that it's meant to be using Thor or should it pick it up itself providing the signal is strong enough?

Thanks,

[goosegog]

hi dicpenderyn,if you have the correct longitude and latitude settings im sure you should see a signal in sat finder of the menu on .8 west thor.you could be starting at the wrong sat,when i did mine i was sure i was at thor with signal but i was at a nearby sat,search fruitballs instalation guide on the forum its a very good guide

[Joe_90]

@Dicpenderyn - how did you do the initial line-up of your motor and dish? This is key to a successful motor experience. Your pole on which the motor is mounted must be exactly plumb and level. The motor latitude should be set for your location. Let's say it's London, so you set the scale on your motor for almost 52 degrees. The motor should be at its zero position (the middle of its travel). The dish should be absolutely central on the motor. The whole motor and dish assembly should be pointed South. Put your correct latitude and longitude into the receiver. Again, assuming London, it's 51.5 N and 0.0 E. This setting is key to how much the motor will turn when you select a particular satellite. If you now select Thor on your receiver the motor will (should) only turn a fraction as Thor is practically due South of London. Obviously, if you are in Cornwall and have set your longitude to 5.0W, the motor will turn almost 5 degrees to point at Thor. Either way you will not receive anything from Thor without tweaking the dish and motor assembly (unless you were fantastically accurate and lucky with your initial setup). In order to receive a signal from Thor you will need to tweak the dish elevation up or down and you will need to loosen the motor mounting bolts a bit to swing the whole assembly East or West until you get an optimum quality signal. Once you have Thor coming in properly you should be able to get other satellites on the arc. You will need to google motor setup guides if you want to receive satellites which are very far to the East or West of your location as the accuracy of the motor tracking is very dependent on the initial pole and motor setup.

[satturn]

With a 60cm dish you are limited to the number of transponders you can receive on Thor. With a motorised dish its best to use a minimum size of 80cm, in fact the bigger the better that suits your motor and of course not forgetting the neighbours and the Planning Authority. Usals is a good and safe set up and assuming this is all correct look at web page SATBEAMS see link http://satbeams.com/footprints and here it gives all sats and dish sizes for your location.

[Dicpenderyn]

Good Evening Gents,

Thank you to all of you who replied with your valuable knowledge / information... It's very much appreciated.

I basically tried to set it up by bypassing the motor to start with, it was attached to the pole and dish etc, just to see if I could get it aligned correctly to Thor! The motor was set to zero and the pole as plum as I could get it! I was using 2 iphone apps to locate Thor. The signal that I was getting wasn't that that strong, so I decided to aim for another satellite that was stronger. I did that successfully and I was able to view channels, so I guess that the dish is too small. I'm gonna buy a 1mtr dish this week and give it another go!!!

I guess with a bigger dish I'll get a better signal and from there I'll be able to get the Long/Lat set into my box and I should be off... If I use USALS, does that mean I only have to get it bang onto Thor and providing my hardware setup is correct I should be able to just move to other satellites???

I know what you mean Goosegog by locating the incorrect satellite, I did that today - all good experience though!!! Quite sensitive stuff!!!!

Thanks again,

[Joe_90]

Well, you should have set your lat and long into your box already. That's a fixed position.

With a bigger dish you will get more signal, but it comes with a penalty - smaller beamwidth. This means you will need to be super accurate in aligning the dish as it is much more focused.

I get good signal levels from Thor with a 1m dish, but maybe it's marginal on 60cm I don't know. Where are you located, approximately?

The signals from 5W are very strong and you should easily get reception on a 60cm dish. Ensure your lat/long are in the box accurately and drive the motor to 5W. Then you can tweak the elevation and azimuth to peak the signal. You don't have to use Thor but it's convenient as it's due South for much of middle England. Once you have any satellite tweaked and matched in the receiver, then theoretically you should just be able to go to any other satellite and get reception assuming the dish is big enough. You might find if you tweak on 5W, then drive to 0.8W for Thor that you will receive some of the transponders. Don't forget that a lot of the transponders are beamed at Scandinavia and may not be receivable at your location. As a previous poster said Fruitballs installation guide is excellent - good photos also. Just do a search.

[Dicpenderyn]

I've taken the motor of the dish for now, down but not out!!!

I will try what you have suggested and point the dish to 5W and then drive it over to 0.8 and make some tweaks. I live in North Wales and I have a good uninterrupted view south.

With what youy say about not needing to use Thor, would it be true then that I could just drive the motor from where it's set now - using Astra 28.2e or would it be better using 5W?

I'e had a look at Fruitballs' install guide, very useful - fair play to him for taking the time to create a great guide!!! Ideal for people like me...

I may just order a new dish for the weekend, but I'd like to try your suggestion first - shame it gets dark early now! Will have to wait for the weekend...

Do I have to download/install additional bouquets for the other satellites that I wish to use?

Thanks again,

Dicpenderyn...

[abu baniaz]

If your are using Usals, you can align on any satellite.

IMO, it is far easier to load a channel list. Select a channel, tweak. Select channel on different satellite and tweak again. Make sure that you get good signal at top and both ends of arc. E.g 30w, 0.8w, 39e

With regards to 0.8/5 west. The simple answer is it should be your due south satellite. Use the one nearest to your coordinates.

[Joe_90]

I sort of guessed you might be Welsh based on your monniker, but didn't want to assume :) 5W is probably nearest your due South satellite so I would align on that if you get around to installing your motor again. Theoretically, it doesn't matter which satellite you set up on initially, but it makes it simpler to fault find if you do. The back of my house faces due South exactly so the initial set up was straightforward - T & K brackets, motor and dish all perpendicular to the wall. I have uninterrupted coverage from about 55 East to 58 West. I'm on the 6W longitude so I did my initial alignment on 5W satellite. Handy enough with France 2, France 3 coming in very strong.

edit - as per abu's post, you could download various channel lists which would make organisation of bouquets easier. You could also play with the Satfinder plugin which is included with the standard ViX images. This will allow you to select a particular satellite, drive the motor to it and then select a transponder. There are graphical indicators of signal strength and quality (quality is the more important attribute) which will allow you to tweak the dish with the help of an assistant - it's a two person job (unless of course you have a stream from the receiver to your phone, but be careful if you're up that ladder!).

[Dicpenderyn]

Hi Abu,

Thanks for the reply and info! Will be giving it a good go on Saturday provviding the weather's good! I'll update with my success / failure!!!

Thanks

Dicpenderyn.

[Dicpenderyn]

Hello Again Gents,

Looking forward to the weekend and hopefully sorting my kit out! Got myself a 95cm dish on the way, I've bought new t & k bracket set and pole. Hopefully that should herald some different results, namely being able to get a decent signal from Thor.

Being positive, when I get a signal from Thor and I've entered my Long and Lat into the box, does it matter that there are only 3 places after the decimal point? If my Lat is 53.2497°, do I just enter 53.249?

I've read that you can destroy the motor by it hitting into things or by going out of range - there's nothing for the dish to hit, so how do I avoid it going out of range? Will using Usals sort this?

Thanks in advance,

Dicpenderyn...

PS... I feel like a child at christmas!!! hahaha

[goosegog]

hi dicpenderyn,
hope you get some decent weather,good choice getting the t&k brackets i would say,not sure but i would say 53.2497 would be 53.250
there should be a setting on your motor,a couple of screws where you can set a limit east and west.
like ive said before i aint no expert:confused:ive only done my own but i would say be a complete fanny getting your pole perfectly plumb and make sure you have the best signals at each sat you will be using before nipping all bolts up and get a pal to help
have fun and take your time and care up the ladder:thumbsup:

[Joe_90]

The latitude is not that critical as the USALS software in the receiver uses that to calculate the angle the motor needs to turn in conjunction with the longitude (which should be within 0.1 of a degree). The motor will only have pointing accuracy of about 0.1 of a degree in any case. As I said before, you can put your latitude and longitude into your receiver now - it ain't going to change :) As goosegog says be completely precise about getting the the pole perfectly plumb all around before mounting the motor and dish on it and you will improve your chances of tracking across the arc of satellites properly. If your dish is not in danger of striking anything then don't worry about motor limits. It can only turn 50 - 60 degrees East or West in any case before it comes to its own limits.

[Dicpenderyn]

Good Evening All,

Well, I've been up and down that ladder like a fiddler's elbow today, I'm knackered! Hot bath and beer awaits!!!

I've had partial success!!!

Motor back on, 95cm dish, pole as upright as I can get it... Using Usals..

When locked onto 5w i get an SNR of 82% but when I scan I only get 16 channels.

When I move the dish to Thor I get 65% but again when I scan I get 19 channels.

When I move to 19.2e I get 82% i get 20 channels.

When I move to 28.2e I get0 98%.

When I move to 13e I get 80% and 32 channels....

I also just downloaded catseye's channel list.

Many Thanks,

Dicpenderyn.

Any ideas why I''m getting so little channels when scanning?

[goosegog]

Hi dicpenderyn,at a guess you may be just scanning a certain transponder on each sat,see if there is a setting on scanning to scan all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dicpenderyn]

Hi Goosegog,

I'll have a look in a short while whne the kids have gone to bed!

Thanks for the suggestion!!!

Dicpenderyn

[Joe_90]

@Dic - you're not lined up properly. Set your coordinates in the receiver first and go to 5W and scan. Tune to France 2. Tweak the dish elevation up or down until you get a 99% SNR or as high as you can. Slightly twist the whole motor/dish assembly on the pole and you should get near 100% SNR. Finally twist the LNB in the holder to tweak the skew to finalise the setup. That should give you the best chance to line up on other sats.

[Dicpenderyn]

Hi Tony,

I've set my long and lat into the box, got the co-ordinates from dishpointer.

From my motor manual, it says that for my latitude (53 degrees) I should have an Elevation angle of 37 (scale on motor I think) and dish bracket angle if 27.4.. If these are set incorrectly am I right in thinking that it won't track the arc correctly?

Sould I be able to get more channels that the small amount I've been getting even with a decent signal on some satellites??

I'll give what you've suggested a try tomorrow Tony - very delicate stuff!!!!

Cheers,

Dicpenderyn

[judge]

Well, I've been up and down that ladder like a fiddler's elbow today, I'm knackered! Hot bath and beer awaits!!!

If you have an android phone, an app like DMSatFinder might save you some of those trips up the ladder..

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pl.extraweb.android.dmsatfinder&hl=en
Enable the beeper & stick your phone in your pocket...

[Dicpenderyn]

Hi Judge,

I'v got an iPhone now - I do have 2 apps for the phone....

Don't think I'd wanna be a satellite engineer! Hahaha

[Joe_90]

Hi Tony,

I've set my long and lat into the box, got the co-ordinates from dishpointer.

From my motor manual, it says that for my latitude (53 degrees) I should have an Elevation angle of 37 (scale on motor I think) and dish bracket angle if 27.4.. If these are set incorrectly am I right in thinking that it won't track the arc correctly?

Sould I be able to get more channels that the small amount I've been getting even with a decent signal on some satellites??

I'll give what you've suggested a try tomorrow Tony - very delicate stuff!!!!

Cheers,

Dicpenderyn
Well - the latitude setting on the motor depends on the motor. On mine I set my actual latitude 53 degrees. On others it's 90 - latitude, which would be 37. The dish bracket angle is only an initial setup guide because the markings are fairly crude. Assuming your motor markings are correct (remind me of the motor model) then you should tweak your dish up or down slightly to maximise the signal quality on 5W. Once you do that then the motor will track to any satellite near to 5W without issue - you should easily get any sat. from 10E to 15W without a problem. If your motor latitude setting is right and your pole is plumb then you should be able to get 28E to 30W without problems. Some transponders on 26E (BADR4) are tricky so you may have to tweak the LNB skew and focus (in/out) to get it right.

judge is right in that if you have an app you can read the signal quality yourself while up the ladder. What I do is have youngest son looking at the screen (using the sat finder plugin) calling the signal strength and quality (SNR) to me over the mobile while I tweak the dish on the ladder.

[Dicpenderyn]

The motor I have is an Icecrypt DM200.

If I manage to get it bang on, on 5w with a high SNR, can I forget about the angles on the dish/motor?? Should it then just go to the other satellites providing the pole is plumb?

Cheers

[Joe_90]

I couldn't find the manual for your motor, but assuming you've set the elevation on the motor correctly, then tweaking the dish elevation to peak the signal/SNR should sort out you chances on hitting the other sats providing the pole is plumb.

[Dicpenderyn]

Okay great, I'll get on it first thing inthe morning!!!

Here's hoping!!!

Thanks for your advice!!!

I'll update tomorrow,, hopefully with success!!!

Dic

[Dicpenderyn]

Hello Again Chaps,

I tuned into 5w with an SNR of 82% - this number fluctuates when I scroll through the transponder list at the bottome of the page, sometimes I got 100%.

When I did a blind scan I could see loads of channels!!

I then went to hotbird 80ish% and astra 28.2 I got 100%. It's some of the other satellites that I can't hit so I guess that the pole is not 100% plumb.. Close but not close enough!


I've got some inclinometer apps on my iphone and I'm going to try to reset the whole thing on Weds afternoon!! Even getting my scaffold pole put on a lathe because I'm getting false readings from either side of the pole - that should fix that...

I have a question about pointing the dish and motor!! Because my latitude is 53.252, in the motor booklet, it says that for that latitude, my elevation angle should be 37, dish bracket is 27.4 and declination is 7.6 - Is it meant to be pointing 7.6 degrees off what true shouth should be? If so is it to the east or west?

Thanks for all your help lads,

Regards,

Dic

[abu baniaz]

Get a spirit level. Make sure you are plumb in both dimensions.

What are the markings on your motor? If latitude, set it to your location. Never ever touch it again unless you move location.

[Joe_90]

As abu says, just set your motor latitude to 53 (or 37 if that's the only markings). A close-up photo of your motor scales would help - both sides! If you actually set it to 37 when it's meant to be 53 (or vice versa), then it's unlikely you will be able to get the actual dish elevation right - they only have a limited range of settings. Declination is a dish setting where it points down slightly to compensate for the fact that the satellites are not on the actual equator but are orbiting high above it. It's not really relevant to your setup - and nothing to do with pointing East or West.

As regards your dish elevation - again I would tell you that the markings on the dish are just a guide. They are not that accurate. Set it to 27 degrees to start with. Go to 5W and tune in one channel. Then you must nudge the dish up or down a degree or two to get the SNR as high as you can - ignore the actual scale on the dish. Twist the LNB in its holder slightly to get the SNR as high as you can. Twist the whole motor and dish assembly on the pole slightly left or right to peak the SNR.

What channels are you getting on 5W - France 2? Use it to get your signal on 100%. Then go to a weaker transponder on the same satellite and tweak that. If you can move to 28.2 and get 100% and also go to 30W and get 100% then you are reasonably sure you have the pole plumb. If you are hitting problems on BADR4 (26E), then you are in good company. The MBC channels are tricky enough and will require some tweaking of the LNB in its holder to get right. Try moving the LNB in and out slightly to get best focus. On a 1.1m dish I have issues getting MBC on 26E without breakup, particularly if it's raining.

[Dicpenderyn]

Hello Again Guys,

Here's a pic of the scale in the motor booklet.

38213

Hope thic pic's uploaded okay.

Can't get actual motor pic until tomorrow.

On the pic, you'll see that for 53 Latitude my elevation angle should be 37 and dish angle 27.4 - I saw something on the web that suggested that I should subtract the declination angle from the dish bracket angle - not sure if this it true though??? If it was that'd mean that I set the dish angle to 19.8.

So to try again tomorrow, I'm gonna

1 - spend time on the pole to get 100% plumb
2 - set motor to 0
3 - set motor angle
4 - set dish angle
5 - point to most south pointing satellite

I will do as you suggest Tony with 5w and 28e etc...

Once I set the motor to 0 - is there something in the box that I need to tell that the motor's set to 0? Goto 0 / Goto X?

Thanks,

Dic

[abu baniaz]

You may be getting yourself in a muddle. Have a look at this thread, it may make things easier.
http://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?18087-Fruitballs-Motorised-Installtion-Guide

1. Make sure pole is plumb.
2a. If motor has latitude set it to your geographic value. Do not touch it again.
2b. If motor has elevation marking, set is as per the chart. Do not touch it again.
3. Make sure motor is straight on pole.
4. Your tyuner config should be simple, positioner with your co-ordiantes entered. Set co-ordinates on your receiver. 53.x North 4. West. I have assumed you the 4 value. But you are definitely in the west
5. Transfer a channel list
6. Select a channel/transponder on 5w. Motor will move.
7. Rotate assembly around pole/adjust dish angle till you get best signal on 5W.
8. Select another channel on 5W adjusting if necessary so that you get best signal.
9 Send motor to another satellite and repeat tweaking.

[Joe_90]

I absolutely endorse all that abu is saying! You're overthinking it, dic! My motor manual (they're all very similar) say set motor to 37 degrees, but there are two scales on either side of the motor. 53 degrees on one side is the same as 37 on the other. DO NOT SET YOUR MOTOR TO 0 - see 2a and 2b above!!! Adjust the dish up and down slightly to get the best signal and rotate slightly around the pole as per 7 above to get the best signal. I you've been accurate in your initial setup, you won't have to move the dish much. You will see that even with the bolts reasonably tight, if you grasp the bottom of the dish and push up or down the signal quality will change or the same if if you grasp the side of the dish and try to twist left or right. It's that sensitive - believe me.

[Dicpenderyn]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your valuable information and patience!

I had another go at it today.

I took a fair bit of time on the pole to get it as plumb as I could using a spirit level! The inclination apps were sh!te...

I set the motor angle to 53 degrees.3824738248


Set the dish elevation and pointed it at 5w. I got a good SNR ranging from 100% to 74% on different transponders.

I then pointed it to 28.2 and got 100% to 83% on different transponders. Unfortunately when I drove it to 30w I didn't get an SNR at all.

These are the satellites that I can get.

46e - 43% SNR
45e - 74%
42e - 45%
39e - 49%
33e - 72%
28.2e - 100%
21.6e - 40%
19.2e - 87%
16e - 74%
13e - 63%
9e - 72%
0.8w - 54%
5w - 82%
11w - 29%
12.5w - 49%
15w - 56%
22w - 54%
24.5 - 31%
27.5 - 69%

I did try to make small adjustments by turning the motor direction slightly, but as it helped the signal on say 46e it'd have an effect at the other end of the arc and vice versa..

Any ideas guys?

Thanks,

Dic

[Joe_90]

Well the fact that the motor adjustment said LATITUDE on the side confirms that you should be setting your latitude - 53 degrees. So that's good.

I'm still not convinced that you are lining up the dish correctly on the first satellite (5W). I suggested you tune in France2 and tweak the dish up and down slightly to get the SNR at its max. Similarly twist the motor and dish together on the pole left and right to maximise the SNR. You can't do this by driving the motor using the remote control on the box - it has to be done while on the dish hardware itself. 28.2 and 19.2 and 13E are all very powerful signals so you should be getting 90% plus on them.

[Dicpenderyn]

Dear Gents,

Sorry for dropping off the radar and not updating you with was going on..

This was due to a combination of things really - spending most of my recent free time on the sat system, the nights drawing in, fairly understanding missis looking after small children by herself and me starting a new job...

I am able to get 100% on 0.5w, 98% on 19.2e and 97% on 28.2e.

I am able to drive the dish to other satellites 30w 85%, 0.8w 77% 13e 86% amongst others.

I am able to drive the dish to 4.8 with a low snr, like 39%. Some channels are 88%. Would you say that this is normal?

I am unable to get satellites like 39e unless I edit the longitude and change it from what it's meant to be...

The system seems be okay and I am very happy with it from what I have seen.

I'd like to say a massive thank you to you all for assisting me, and sharing your knowledge.

Dic

[Alec]

Dear Gents,

Sorry for dropping off the radar and not updating you with was going on..

This was due to a combination of things really - spending most of my recent free time on the sat system, the nights drawing in, fairly understanding missis looking after small children by herself and me starting a new job...

I am able to get 100% on 0.5w, 98% on 19.2e and 97% on 28.2e.

I am able to drive the dish to other satellites 30w 85%, 0.8w 77% 13e 86% amongst others.

I am able to drive the dish to 4.8 with a low snr, like 39%. Some channels are 88%. Would you say that this is normal?

I am unable to get satellites like 39e unless I edit the longitude and change it from what it's meant to be...

The system seems be okay and I am very happy with it from what I have seen.

I'd like to say a massive thank you to you all for assisting me, and sharing your knowledge.

Dic

One of the reasons for using Thor if it in your arc, is if you can see behind the back of it, that the dish, motor and LNB are in line ( if you can look over the top in the center they are lined up. That is why some people do it this on the floor, because it is very hard to see this in the air. Also when you put in a program details , you should be able to pick up the Sat without the pole being plumb or the long, lat is correct, because it can be like setting it up as fixed dish, but it is when the motor moves to another Sat that the pole, long, Lat , and the dish, motor, LNB are needed to be set up correctly.