View Full Version : Vix......
my rant is about people who say things like why hasnt it got...why doesnt it do....and il tell you why
this image is excellent...is it the best? i think so who knows but that is irrelevant what matters is people spend lots of there own time dedicated to helping the rest of us and we should all be really grateful of that...yet as soon as a new image or update is released its why can't it clean my car or do my shopping etc...
really guys pack it in...we have a great box and amazing help from these guys and i dont care how many green screens or reboots we get...ask and they will always help you...so cum on...less moaning and more appreciation please....:mad:
personal choice surely the whole idea of an enigma system? i loved dream elite but sadly now gone tried out vix not for me so leaning towards vti but none of them are totally glitch free its all compromise
your right...its about choice.....thats fine but its the way for me some people challenge a problem on an image, plug in or whatever like they aint happy and moaning...i dont get it....try using the box (or any box) without the use of any of these forums and see what happens...just be grateful is what im saying
my rant is about people who say things like why hasnt it got...why doesnt it do....and il tell you why
this image is excellent...is it the best? i think so who knows but that is irrelevant what matters is people spend lots of there own time dedicated to helping the rest of us and we should all be really grateful of that...yet as soon as a new image or update is released its why can't it clean my car or do my shopping etc...
really guys pack it in...we have a great box and amazing help from these guys and i dont care how many green screens or reboots we get...ask and they will always help you...so cum on...less moaning and more appreciation please....:mad:
your missing the point entirely, and i'll tell you why.
from my own point of view as a long time satellite nerd going back to 1989 in this hobby. i have owned dozens of boxes some closed source some like my dreamboxes open source. i am a nerd i dont give two hoots if my box has a epg, i dont care about picons or any thing else. i can however see how and why some others do care for those things.
a lot of people have come into this hobby directly from either cable or sky tv, especially in the last year for obvious reasons. these people are used to the professional feel of those products where millions of pounds are spent on the customer experience as much as the content aired.
These users are paying several hundred pounds in cases for a box that just does not measure up to those experiences rightly or wrongly.
after all how happy would you be if you bought a car from your local dealer only to be told after the fact that the brakes come as a added extra or that the wheels turn right instead of left when you turn the wheel left, only to be told. hold on a minute you'll have to wait for some third party unpaid dev crew to come along and fix that for you that's not our problem.
like i said these things dont bother me as i have been using open source boxes for over 7 years so i know what to expect but others new to this hobby might not and you and your little spat aint gona make those expectations any less.
a lot of people have come into this hobby directly from either cable or sky tv, especially in the last year for obvious reasons. these people are used to the professional feel of those products where millions of pounds are spent on the customer experience as much as the content aired.
These users are paying several hundred pounds in cases for a box that just does not measure up to those experiences rightly or wrongly.
One thing to note, users should NOT come along and expect any receiver act like a sky or cable receiver.
after all how happy would you be if you bought a car from your local dealer only to be told after the fact that the brakes come as a added extra or that the wheels turn right instead of left when you turn the wheel left, only to be told. hold on a minute you'll have to wait for some third party unpaid dev crew to come along and fix that for you that's not our problem.
Personally I always do my research first, if people are stupid enough to spend often hundreds on a satellite receiver without doing their research first, more fool them.
Now I don't want to get drawn into a debate or argument here, but I feel all that satsatsat is saying is for peeps to stop moaning about stupid things and making unrealistic requests.
I remember one particular thread when a member made a post in a thread just expecting a member of the VIX team to reply to the thread. Remember we can't be expected to reply or answer to every thread. We're just normal peeps with normal live, we're just enthusiasts like everyone else here.
Well said Sic...
We all have our own lives. We're just doing this as a hobby and to help other members out...
Dunno where all this had come from, as haven't had chance to catch up, and just about to go out now (yes, we do have lives).
Will check back later, and hope all is good on these boards whilst I'm away :-)
@sicillain i absolutely agree with you on all points, i just dont think that bagging on the newbs to this hobby is the way to go.
basilyoung
25-10-10, 00:21
erm....sez he carefully
anyone buying a sat unit, thats not paug (pay as u go) ie a ruppy unit. (sky box or simular ekk)
are reliant on the work of others, and unless caperble of writing up an image, thats all singing and danceing, to there requirements,
and willing to share the image free of charge, should with respect, accept the images on offer
and of course, ask for the various refinments, but if the refinements can not be achieved, just except the fact
in the end, there are loads of units on the market, some with good surport, some not
for what ever reason, the buyer has for getting any non paug unit, its in the end, a hobby first and last
baz
Well said Sic...
We all have our own lives. We're just doing this as a hobby and to help other members out...
Dunno where all this had come from, as haven't had chance to catch up, and just about to go out now (yes, we do have lives).
Will check back later, and hope all is good on these boards whilst I'm away :-)
Found this posted on another forum some time ago in response to similar made me smile:
Tongue in cheek but some people do actually think like this
How dare you have the cheek to go out when you know I am sat here messing about with settings I know nothing about, you should be waiting for my next question cos Ive ****ed up, not listened to your advice in the first place, only followed half your instructions, only given half the information you asked for, then gone and messed with some other settings. As a result of you and your friends my box doesn't work and your thousands of hours put into development for free is shit. Absolutely disgraceful if you ask me.
:D :D :D
hahaha bloody hell...welldone maxwell i rest my case
silverfox0786
07-11-10, 16:38
Max whoever wrote that has got some real cheek but hey it made me laugh
OK, lets look at things from my point of view.
I love tinkering with computers, been ruining Linux since I installed slack ware many years ago, so from that angle, I'm not bothered about having to tinker with the box to get it working in the slightest.
I've got a Thompson Sky HD box, upgraded the caps myself when power supply started playing up. Got such a good deal off of Virgin that I ditched Sky and went with them for a year.
Daughters now at Uni, son lives on his 360 so me and the wife had a good think and realised that 95% of what we watch is on FTA channels and the rest are repeats on the comedy channel etc, so decided to ditch pay TV altogether and go freeview.
Aerials crap so decided freesat was the way to go (installed a 80cm Triax when I brought my Sky HD box from ebay when they first came out). Had a look at various satellite web shops and their related forums and the idea of going motorised looked interesting.
Spent around £50 on a motor, £10 on a scaffolding pole and set it up using my PC's sat card.
Then I had a look at what I wanted. Was running out of space on my PS3 HD due to all the movies and TV programs stored on there, so wanted to take all the media off that and use it just for gaming.
I also wanted to be able to record while watching another channel.
So I do loads of research. I come across the Vuduo. I read up on it. It's not released yet. But looking at it, it seems to tick all the boxes.
Even now, if you go to any web shop including the sites sponsor and look at the Vuduo picture, it shows 'Internet' and 'VLC Player'.
Most people that have used VLC player know it will play virtually anything that's thrown at it. The description does not in anyway imply that the VLC player will only stream from a PC.
Anything with the Internet Explorer logo and the word "internet" would imply to almost anyone that you can browse the web with the device.
So I get the box home, install the HD, fire it up, scan for channels.
So far so good.
Then I start to play. No internet browser, hmm, sure there was an IE logo when I brought the box, checks, yes there is, must be a configuration problem. No, cant seem to find a browser plugin at all.
OK no worries, wouldn't be using it to browse the web much anyway. Lets transfer my media from my PS3 and PC.
OK lets fire up an avi file and show my wife how good it's been to spend £350 on this box.
Hmm, it's very very jerky. No worries, lets find VLC player and play it with that. Oh, I cant, even though it implied VLC player is included, it's a version that allows streaming from a PC, not a version that allows playing from the actual box.
Well hopefully it will improve in a few weeks with new driver support. Lets pause the avi, lets rewind, hmm, the rewind and fast forward buttons don't work. Hmm, I've un paused it but the sound hasn't started up again yet.
Time to look at the internet and find solutions.
What solution do I find, use the number buttons instead of the rewind/ff buttons as these don't work at the moment. AVI files don't play back properly, no one has any idea when this will be fixed.
I also notice that the picture quality isn't quite as good as the pic quality on my Freesat TV (Sony Bravia) that the duo is connected to.
I try every image out there, all have the same (or variations of the same) problems.
So I spent £350 on a box (got a discount code) when it was released.
I expected to have to play around with a lot of things, I had no problem with that. But I also expected a box that cost £400 to be able to do the basic things properly.
To be able to record 2 channels at once and play back something that's recorded without glitches.
To be able to playback avi files (and others) properly, pause/rewind etc.
To have a half decent epg on it (description says it has an epg). When I see the cheapo box my brother-in-law brought from somewhere like Argos and it has a nice simple to use EPG it's not too much to expect a proper working one on a £400 box.
To be wife friendly for the basic functions such as setting a record etc.
Maybe I expect too much from a £400 box that advertises its self with VLC and IE?
Then VIx is released. At last an image where things like the pause, ff/rw work (most of the time), my hopes are raised that at last someone who knows what they are doing is working on it. What's the first thing that springs to mind? To ask loads of questions regarding the fixing of other bugs that have been annoying me since day one.
But since it's release, personally and I mean no offence by it, I have noticed a change in this forum, in a way it seems to have become a little elitist, people coming down hard on anyone that dares ask a question about newer releases or advising people when they ask for help with other images to try VIx.
Every single week I'm getting problems with epg imports, pic breaking up, box hanging, remote stopping working etc etc etc. As are others.
Bearing in mind I am very technically minded, I am fast reaching the point where I simply want a box that can manage basic functionality without a constant hassle. Someone less technically minded will probably be on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
Such people will naturally want to know when the box will be able to do what it was effectively advertised to do at the point of sale.
As I and others have said numerous times, we DO appreciate all the hard work, time and effort that has been put into the Vix image.
BUT, at the same time, if someone puts their hand up to volunteer then volunteer is what they do. When someone volunteers publicly to do something, responsibility and accountability does come with that.
I have volunteered numerous times in my life, ran a youth club for a few years. I couldn't refuse to answer questions because it interfered with my private life or not attend meetings because it interfered with my private life, I chose to volunteer, hence had to accept the responsibility that came with that.
On a different level, I volunteered and until recently looked after a website for a charity organization. Again it was all my own spare time. And again, often I had to attend the charity to discuss what was going on etc. Often I would be contacted sometimes late into the night asking me to urgently update it with various info.
Volunteering to do something that helps others, has to be give and take. It cant be simply "I'm volunteering, it's my time, so I'll answer what I want only when I want and you can like it or lump it". because if that is the volunteer person or groups attitude, then to be perfectly honest, the world would be a better place if such people didn't offer to help in the first place.
Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Andy at all. I do appreciate there needs to be a fair balance between volunteered time and personal life.
I'm just beginning to notice a tone from others in this forum that to be perfectly honest, I'm starting to dislike.
silverfox0786
23-11-10, 13:57
When is this book being published LOL
Got Technomate 7100 triple tuner 500gb hard drive for sale, cant fiddle with it but great for wathing tv
OK, lets look at things from my point of view.
I love tinkering with computers, been ruining Linux since I installed slack ware many years ago, so from that angle, I'm not bothered about having to tinker with the box to get it working in the slightest.
I've got a Thompson Sky HD box, upgraded the caps myself when power supply started playing up. Got such a good deal off of Virgin that I ditched Sky and went with them for a year.
Daughters now at Uni, son lives on his 360 so me and the wife had a good think and realised that 95% of what we watch is on FTA channels and the rest are repeats on the comedy channel etc, so decided to ditch pay TV altogether and go freeview.
Aerials crap so decided freesat was the way to go (installed a 80cm Triax when I brought my Sky HD box from ebay when they first came out). Had a look at various satellite web shops and their related forums and the idea of going motorised looked interesting.
Spent around £50 on a motor, £10 on a scaffolding pole and set it up using my PC's sat card.
Then I had a look at what I wanted. Was running out of space on my PS3 HD due to all the movies and TV programs stored on there, so wanted to take all the media off that and use it just for gaming.
I also wanted to be able to record while watching another channel.
So I do loads of research. I come across the Vuduo. I read up on it. It's not released yet. But looking at it, it seems to tick all the boxes.
Even now, if you go to any web shop including the sites sponsor and look at the Vuduo picture, it shows 'Internet' and 'VLC Player'.
Most people that have used VLC player know it will play virtually anything that's thrown at it. The description does not in anyway imply that the VLC player will only stream from a PC.
Anything with the Internet Explorer logo and the word "internet" would imply to almost anyone that you can browse the web with the device.
So I get the box home, install the HD, fire it up, scan for channels.
So far so good.
Then I start to play. No internet browser, hmm, sure there was an IE logo when I brought the box, checks, yes there is, must be a configuration problem. No, cant seem to find a browser plugin at all.
OK no worries, wouldn't be using it to browse the web much anyway. Lets transfer my media from my PS3 and PC.
OK lets fire up an avi file and show my wife how good it's been to spend £350 on this box.
Hmm, it's very very jerky. No worries, lets find VLC player and play it with that. Oh, I cant, even though it implied VLC player is included, it's a version that allows streaming from a PC, not a version that allows playing from the actual box.
Well hopefully it will improve in a few weeks with new driver support. Lets pause the avi, lets rewind, hmm, the rewind and fast forward buttons don't work. Hmm, I've un paused it but the sound hasn't started up again yet.
Time to look at the internet and find solutions.
What solution do I find, use the number buttons instead of the rewind/ff buttons as these don't work at the moment. AVI files don't play back properly, no one has any idea when this will be fixed.
I also notice that the picture quality isn't quite as good as the pic quality on my Freesat TV (Sony Bravia) that the duo is connected to.
I try every image out there, all have the same (or variations of the same) problems.
So I spent £350 on a box (got a discount code) when it was released.
I expected to have to play around with a lot of things, I had no problem with that. But I also expected a box that cost £400 to be able to do the basic things properly.
To be able to record 2 channels at once and play back something that's recorded without glitches.
To be able to playback avi files (and others) properly, pause/rewind etc.
To have a half decent epg on it (description says it has an epg). When I see the cheapo box my brother-in-law brought from somewhere like Argos and it has a nice simple to use EPG it's not too much to expect a proper working one on a £400 box.
To be wife friendly for the basic functions such as setting a record etc.
Maybe I expect too much from a £400 box that advertises its self with VLC and IE?
Then VIx is released. At last an image where things like the pause, ff/rw work (most of the time), my hopes are raised that at last someone who knows what they are doing is working on it. What's the first thing that springs to mind? To ask loads of questions regarding the fixing of other bugs that have been annoying me since day one.
But since it's release, personally and I mean no offence by it, I have noticed a change in this forum, in a way it seems to have become a little elitist, people coming down hard on anyone that dares ask a question about newer releases or advising people when they ask for help with other images to try VIx.
Every single week I'm getting problems with epg imports, pic breaking up, box hanging, remote stopping working etc etc etc. As are others.
Bearing in mind I am very technically minded, I am fast reaching the point where I simply want a box that can manage basic functionality without a constant hassle. Someone less technically minded will probably be on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
Such people will naturally want to know when the box will be able to do what it was effectively advertised to do at the point of sale.
As I and others have said numerous times, we DO appreciate all the hard work, time and effort that has been put into the Vix image.
BUT, at the same time, if someone puts their hand up to volunteer then volunteer is what they do. When someone volunteers publicly to do something, responsibility and accountability does come with that.
I have volunteered numerous times in my life, ran a youth club for a few years. I couldn't refuse to answer questions because it interfered with my private life or not attend meetings because it interfered with my private life, I chose to volunteer, hence had to accept the responsibility that came with that.
On a different level, I volunteered and until recently looked after a website for a charity organization. Again it was all my own spare time. And again, often I had to attend the charity to discuss what was going on etc. Often I would be contacted sometimes late into the night asking me to urgently update it with various info.
Volunteering to do something that helps others, has to be give and take. It cant be simply "I'm volunteering, it's my time, so I'll answer what I want only when I want and you can like it or lump it". because if that is the volunteer person or groups attitude, then to be perfectly honest, the world would be a better place if such people didn't offer to help in the first place.
Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Andy at all. I do appreciate there needs to be a fair balance between volunteered time and personal life.
I'm just beginning to notice a tone from others in this forum that to be perfectly honest, I'm starting to dislike.
But since it's release, personally and I mean no offence by it, I have noticed a change in this forum, in a way it seems to have become a little elitist, people coming down hard on anyone that dares ask a question about newer releases or advising people when they ask for help with other images to try VIx.
I actually feel quite saddened to read the above. Ever since I started this forum I've tried to keep it as friendly as possible, a forum where new members wouldn't be afraid to post and ask a question. If you see a post where someone has come down hard on a member asking a question, send me a PM with a link and I'll deal with the issue personally. The only questions I'd ask members not is keep asking are things like 'when is the image going to get released?' or 'when is this going to get added?'. Members need to remember we all have our own private live's like everybody else, so we do ask for patience if you understand where I'm coming from. No way am I or any other member of the Admin / Mod team here trying to be 'elitist'.
I'm just beginning to notice a tone from others in this forum that to be perfectly honest, I'm starting to dislike.
I'm very, very sorry to read that you feel that way.
silverfox0786
23-11-10, 14:20
i think all that is being said is when one gives their spare time to do something then, why do ppl have to rant and rave about it not being corretc or taking too long yes i know there is a responsability as i am a volunteer here too and when i was younger i used to partake in a government scheme called Millenium Volunteers where the aim was to get 200 hours volunteered in a year to get your award. i still hold the rcord of doing it in 3 months and it was all my spare after colledge time. but not once did anyone say to me oh thats taking too long or oh you got it wrong it was more to the point no worries mate just take your time.
All i'm saying is yes reposability is there as the developer but can ppl refrain from saying when is it releasing or is rubbish get you act together as did one user say [Sic banned him for 7 days] and things like that. all Andy would like is for ppl to either like it ot not like it thats an idividual choice of the end user. yes bug reporting is important but ripping into it in a bad way is wrong as its a volunteered labour of love and its like ripping into your most prised possetion. i bet you wont like that too
guff daddy
23-11-10, 15:09
Ojustaboo
You need to stick the latest original image on the box, test it in terms of internet browsing/media player performance, and if you feel there is some lack of functionality and the box is not as advertised then contact the manufacturer regarding this - not the web forum of the providers of a homebrew image.
The whole 3rd party homebrew image "cottage industry" for these and other boxes is developed by hobbyists and is principally focussed on xxxxxx please refrain from talk of CS as that is not allow on this forum.
Plus, there is a difference of beeing a noob, and needing someone to do everything for you... It's like doing most things in life. People can guide you what to do. But, when people don't listen to the help you give them, and turn round saying stuff like "it's not working because I can't do that", then how do they expect us to help them?
Think about your time volunteering with that website. If the people who wanted the changes done phoned you up and said "I want some changes made to the home page. Can you change it so that it looks how I want it to look", and that was all the information you received, and they kept calling you every day being really vague like that, how would you feel?
As Sic says, this site is designed to help people by being really simpleand offering that support. All we ask, is that people coming here respect that. If our attitudes have changed, then we're really sorry for that, and let us know where. We don't want it to change like that...
Also, in regards to the elitest about people asking when will it be done etc... Think about the latest HTC Mobile phones (Desire Z and Desire HD). The Desire Z was put on hold for over a month. There was no word from HTC when it would be made available, and a lot of blatent lies by them saying stuff like ("it's with the distributors, so you're waiting for them" was their favourite :p). However, this is from a company who make a good profit on each phone. Also, like updates for xbox live etc, do people constantly phone microsoft and ask them when the updates are going to be there? No, Microsoft turn round, give people a date which is going to be a good few months away, knowing full well that the update might be ready weeks before that date... We prefer to just work on it, and then when it's ready, it'll be released.
I know this probably sounds like I'm being "elitest" at the mo, but I'm just trying to say things how they are.
As for the box being sold with the advertisement of being able to use VLC as a media player, and being able to browse the internet, if you read the text in the picture, it just says "Internet". No mention of internet browsing, even though the picture is misleading. Same with the VLC being misleading. Sorry that you had to find out about that the hard way. Although we are hoping that the avi support will be better in the future (actually, saying that, will have to give an avi a try with the new drivers and see how that goes...), but this is all reliant on the manufacturers.
One thing that we can say though... Be thankful you bought the vu+ box rather than an azbox. That one delivers on the media playing part, but fails miserably on being able to be used as a satellite receiver :p hehe.
We hope that you will continue to use these forums though, as you have been a good contributor in the past, and you knowledge has helped many others...
silverfox0786
23-11-10, 15:12
Ojustaboo
You need to stick the latest original image on the box, test it in terms of internet browsing/media player performance, and if you feel there is some lack of functionality and the box is not as advertised then contact the manufacturer regarding this - not the web forum of the providers of a homebrew image.
very true mate and to add for ojustaboo the original image might be his best bet as all homebrew is based off that so if there is a problem with original then it will be a problem in homebrew image and then that will need to be reported to vuplus them selves
Ojustaboo
The whole 3rd party homebrew image "cottage industry" for these and other boxes is developed by hobbyists and is principally focussed on xxxxxx please refrain from talk of CS as that is not allow on this forum.
Hmm, to be honest, not interested in card sharing in the slightest.
I brought this box because while it was more expensive than others, it seemed to be very customizable, hence pretty future proof and I know Linux very well.
Since buying the box, Sky offered me to come back for 12 months 1/2 price and it's been a plus that I can use the duo box with my card.
Text removed - pooface
I took this box to be good for lots of things such as you tube, pod casts etc etc etc. Text removed - pooface
In fact I think that by saying that, you are doing the homebrew community great harm.
very true mate and to add for ojustaboo the original image might be his best bet as all homebrew is based off that so if there is a problem with original then it will be a problem in homebrew image and then that will need to be reported to vuplus them selves
Vix is miles better than the default image (unless it's changed remarkably since I last tried it). The audio/pause/resume was my biggest gripe which vix seems to be the only image that has managed to sort it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy playing around with images, I was just giving the history and thought behind my purchase to try and show how I can see why others are getting frustrated to the point they take it out on the wrong people.
Any more talk on card sharing, and this thread will be closed... Please keep talk about this away from the forum...
As Ojustaboo said, that is not the whole point of linux boxes, and is not the point of this discussion. Posts edited to remove the discussion...
Plus, there is a difference of beeing a noob, and needing someone to do everything for you... It's like doing most things in life. People can guide you what to do. But, when people don't listen to the help you give them, and turn round saying stuff like "it's not working because I can't do that", then how do they expect us to help them?
Yep, I do understand exactly what you mean
As Sic says, this site is designed to help people by being really simpleand offering that support. All we ask, is that people coming here respect that. If our attitudes have changed, then we're really sorry for that, and let us know where. We don't want it to change like that...
Maybe I'm just having a couple of bad days or reading the wrong few threads. I understand the annoyance of someone seriously saying "is it ready yet" or "it's crap" and I haven't got time for such people myself.
It just seemed to me that in a few threads, people were genuinely seeking advice on upcoming releases and were being shot down. Maybe I'm reading too much into the replies.
As for the box being sold with the advertisement of being able to use VLC as a media player, and being able to browse the internet, if you read the text in the picture, it just says "Internet". No mention of internet browsing, even though the picture is misleading. Same with the VLC being misleading. Sorry that you had to find out about that the hard way. Although we are hoping that the avi support will be better in the future (actually, saying that, will have to give an avi a try with the new drivers and see how that goes...), but this is all reliant on the manufacturers.Yep I fully understand that. I also fully understand it's a new(ish) box and given time things will only get better. Many times in my life I've been the first to adopt new technology and am well aware of the risks/pitfalls of doing so.
Again was simply relating what happened to me, to show how others not used to this sort of thing are probably feeling and why such people are failing to realise exactly how the 3rd party scene works
One thing that we can say though... Be thankful you bought the vu+ box rather than an azbox. That one delivers on the media playing part, but fails miserably on being able to be used as a satellite receiver :p hehe.I love my box, would not want to go back to using say my Sky box after the Duo.
Just had too many glitches over the past few days so like others, the sooner an update comes the better :)
Wouldn't be so bad if there was consistency with the glitches, but there isn't. For instance at around 11 am today, pic went off, vix radio screen showed and crossepg did some sort of import/update. Went into setup and it's correctly set to update at 4am.
That's the sort of oddball random thing that suddenly happens out of the blue, usually at a crucial time when my wife's trying to watch something :)
We hope that you will continue to use these forums though, as you have been a good contributor in the past, and you knowledge has helped many others...I don't intend going anywhere and I hope Vix continues to develop into one of the best images there is.
Again I meant no offence by my post, was just trying to play devils advocate into how others are feeling.
"it's not working because I can't do that", ...
Glad Gillian mcKeith hasn’t got a VUPlus
is there a new image commin :D:eek:
@Ojustaboo
i must say you are a very rare creature indeed. it is exceptionally rare to come across some one new to this hobby that takes the time to research things before jumping in head first .
The vast majority of people are as i term them the "pub gang". those are the people who hear from a mate down the pub of a magical satellite box that once plugged in can get every channel ever transmitted for free.
i do agree with you to a point about the limitations of some of the stated features by the manufacturers and their deliberate vagueness in describing some of those features, but as already pointed out those short comings are the manufacturers and can in no way be attributed towards forums like this, who are run for and by hobbyists and enthusiasts.
i do hope you stay on the forum as it is indeed nice to see a person who can hold a rational discussion without resulting in a slagging match because they either cant come to grips with their machine and it's abilities or just plain cant operate it.
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