Buy Ultimo now... or wait for Duo2 range? Advice anyone?

[ayacaramba]

Will any of the VU+ 2nd gen boxes have more than 2 tuners?

I'm considering buying an Ultimo (for connecting to dual fixed dishes: 2 tuners on Freesat, 1 tuner on Spanish TV from Eutelsat Hotbird).

The answer to this will influence whether I plunge in now with an Ultimo, or hold fire until early 2013 when the new boxes are out.

Here's the (abbreviated) back story:

I've been a loyal enthusiast of the Toppy PVR (Topfield TF5800PVRt) for many years since they were launched in the UK. Unfortunately my Toppy hard drive has just failed (again ; this is its 3rd drive) and I'm at the stage where I need to either invest in another Toppy drive to last until the Duo2 range is out, or else take the plunge now with an Ultimo.

If the VU+ 2nd gen was not on the horizon then there would be no decision to make. It would be a no brainer, Ultimo today please. But the advent of the new boxes, with their vastly superior specs, has given me a tricky choice. Especially if the old machines become obsolete as developer interest moves ahead to the new platform.

Then again, if the Duo2 doesn't meet my essential requirement of 3 (or more) satellite inputs then maybe it's a case of buy Ultimo now and get on with enjoying some TV rather than worrying about what might happen next... ;-)

Any advice from the VU+ community much appreciated!

Cheers

Stuart

[Rob van der Does]

There is and always will be something new and 'better' over the horizon. If you always wait for that, you never have anything at all....... :D

Specs of a device are one thing; knowing how it does it's job in daily live is something different. Far too soon to say anything about that.

[Ev0]

To answer your question, the duo2 will be a twin tuner out of the box, with only space for 2 tuners.

However Vu+ are due to release a twin tuner on 1 card (therefore only using 1 slot per 2 tuners), later this year.

So effectivly you could make a duo2 into a quad tuner using these new twin tuner cards (you can fit these in the Ultimo and Uno too).

However as Rob has said above, you could wait forever due to there always being an upgrade coming, you have to bite the bullet at some point and dive in.

The only thing I would say is that I am very happy with my Ultimo with it's 3 dvbs-2 tuners and although the duo2 looks great on paper, I don't think it's going to be as big an upgrade as people are expecting it to be, but I am 99% sure it will be alot more expensive than the Ultimo is right now. Also I think that lcd display would annoy me when watching tv, but i'm sure you could switch it off, but then if you do that, why buy a duo2 at all ?

[ayacaramba]

Thanks guys for the quick reply.

What you're saying makes good sense. I've thought about this a lot over the weekend, and your reply pretty much backs up my own conclusion.

Good point about the cost increase. Duo2 will command a premium price, and I'm already facing a fairly large capital spend to get the dishes installed on my house (I've been using Freeview terrestrial thus far) never mind the Ultimo and a 2TB disk.

I'd value your thoughts on a related matter though -

WAF (wife acceptance factor) is v.important for me ;-) The Toppy was great, she learned the EPG and timer setups no problem. How's the Ultimo when it comes to WAF? Tricky and fiddly, or easy to drive the basic features?

Auto Timers - do any of the distros (Black Hole etc) automatically scan the EPG for patterns (like "*Spanish*" to discover any programme whose name (or description) matches, and sets up a timer?

Padding - I would expect the VU+ software to allow auto padding of recordings (including padding any timers which are automatically set by an EPG scan) ?

Cheers!

[Ev0]

WAF: Mine uses the Ultimo, Duo and Uno without any issue's at all, infact she moans less about it than she did using the sly hd box.

I do download the epg once a week for her though.

Auto Timers, i've not used personally so can't comment but there are plugins for that out there.

You can set it to record x amount of mins before and after a program, but it won't auto add time i'm afraid (say if a live event was extended).

[ayacaramba]

Thanks for the fast reply.
Do you mean you meed to manually download the EPG every week? Surely not. I'm used to a Toppy which refreshes and parses the EPG data every 24hrs, discovers and sets timers automatically. Surely the VU+ must be capable of automatically keeping its EPG data current?

[Ev0]

Thanks for the fast reply.
Do you mean you meed to manually download the EPG every week? Surely not. I'm used to a Toppy which refreshes and parses the EPG data every 24hrs, discovers and sets timers automatically. Surely the VU+ must be capable of automatically keeping its EPG data current?


Yes it can be set to do it everyday, but as crossepg downloads it 7 days at a time, I just do it manually once a week, I suppose really I could set it to auto do it once a week, just haven't found the need to let it auto do it itself (truth be told, I don't really watch much tv, so it doesn't matter too much to me, I spend more time playing around with different images).

[Rob van der Does]

To answer your question, the duo2 will be a twin tuner out of the box, with only space for 2 tuners.
However Vu+ are due to release a twin tuner on 1 card (therefore only using 1 slot per 2 tuners), later this year.
So effectivly you could make a duo2 into a quad tuner using these new twin tuner cards (you can fit these in the Ultimo and Uno too).
We still have to await VU's official announcement, but it could very well be that a box can only handle 1 dual-tuner card. If so, the DUO-2 would be a triple tuner.

[Ev0]

We still have to await VU's official announcement, but it could very well be that a box can only handle 1 dual-tuner card. If so, the DUO-2 would be a triple tuner.

Good point

[Stanman]

Thanks guys for the quick reply.

What you're saying makes good sense. I've thought about this a lot over the weekend, and your reply pretty much backs up my own conclusion.

Good point about the cost increase. Duo2 will command a premium price, and I'm already facing a fairly large capital spend to get the dishes installed on my house (I've been using Freeview terrestrial thus far) never mind the Ultimo and a 2TB disk.

I'd value your thoughts on a related matter though -

WAF (wife acceptance factor) is v.important for me ;-) The Toppy was great, she learned the EPG and timer setups no problem. How's the Ultimo when it comes to WAF? Tricky and fiddly, or easy to drive the basic features? I use the VIX image on mine and it is 1000% WAF, I have three boxes and it helps the image is same across the range - its so easy my 4 year can navigate it, though when she has the remote the channel gets stuck on Nick junior:D

Auto Timers - do any of the distros (Black Hole etc) automatically scan the EPG for patterns (like "*Spanish*" to discover any programme whose name (or description) matches, and sets up a timer? Yes, multiple settings and I have literally tons of them and can set it to exact or partial description / title, record all or only unique instances

Padding - I would expect the VU+ software to allow auto padding of recordings (including padding any timers which are automatically set by an EPG scan) ? Yes you can

Cheers!

Reply in blue - AT has been integrated into VIX and is the best to use imho

[Johev]

Hi people, I think that you might be overlooking some of the specifications on the Vu+Duo 2. The main problem with the current ones, be it ET9200(and above) or VU+ Ultimo (as they have the same CPU and RAM) is that they are not really capable to be a full featured media centre, they will not play all the formats and the CPU is not capable to stream a lower bit rate channel over the internet or lan network.

If I am reading the specifications of the new box correctly, all this can change. You would be able to watch your favourite channel on your phone over the 3g connection, all without using a PC server. You could be able to play all the formats, even though they would not be any hardware accelerated codecs for your specific device, just by using the raw power of the CPU.

The options are almost endless. I would like to know if anyone has a more concrete information about when it will be launched?

[Rob van der Does]

I don't think this is being 'overlooked'; there is no concrete information, neither about the launch-date, nor about the 'real mediaplayer' ability's of the box. We will have to wait and see what the box really does in that respect; and remember that this is not only dependant on the hardware specs, but also on the quality of the drivers.

[stick50jr]

... The main problem with the current ones, be it ET9200(and above) or VU+ Ultimo (as they have the same CPU and RAM) is that they are not really capable to be a full featured media centre, they will not play all the formats and the CPU is not capable to stream a lower bit rate channel over the internet or lan network...

I suspect that I won't be able to resist the Duo2 when it arrives. The CPU features are massive compared to the current ones and surely Broadcom will provide driver templates for the new capabilities to help sell their chips.

In the meantime I'm happy with my four tuner Duo (2 x DVB-S2 + Usb Dual DVB-T) running Vix.

cheers

[Rob van der Does]

....and surely Broadcom will provide driver templates for the new capabilities to help sell their chips.....
Of course they do, they always do. But those drivers only contain the basic-functionality, plus tools to create your own. Problem is that it takes manufacturers literally years to make decent drivers. I see no reason why that would be different from the past.

[Ev0]

I think the big question is:

Why does an STB need that much cpu power and that much memory ?

[Rob van der Does]

I think the big question is:
Why does an STB need that much cpu power and that much memory ?
The simple answer is: it does not. And the prove is in the many STB's that have (max) 400MHz CPU's.

The only reason can be in extra functionality, such as restreaming (down converting) and full MediaPlayer functionality (as such a CPU can probably use software codecs).

[Ev0]

The simple answer is: it does not. And the prove is in the many STB's that have (max) 400MHz CPU's.

The only reason can be in extra functionality, such as restreaming (down converting) and full MediaPlayer functionality (as such a CPU can probably use software codecs).

Exactly my point, I don't think in the real world, that many people will see the benefit of the extra power or memory the duo2 will have.

That said, I do hope that I am proved wrong.

[Rob van der Does]

Exactly my point, I don't think in the real world, that many people will see the benefit of the extra power or memory the duo2 will have.
I do.
If the DUO-2 proves to be a real MediaPlayer, there's a big advantage. Up to now STB's can only playback a limited number of files, and then only if the coding is 100% correct. If this potential feature becomes true, it would mean one device less in many households.
As you see, I state a big 'IF'. As I said before: specs and real world are often two different things.

[Ev0]

"IF" biggest word in the english dictionary :D

[75mak]

i'm in a similar position to the OP. i mainly want the 3 tuners.

duo2 seems like its going to be able to replace media players, and with apple airplay and possible mirroring in the works... i would certainly buy one. main thing is what other have already asked - when? and how much? if i knew that i could make an informed decision.

this two tuners in one card thing that vu+ are coming out with also, adds to decisions to be made. currently got a duo, but would love to trade it in for an ultimo.

i guess, best thing to do is wait for further information or wait until i can pick an ultimo at price within my budget.

[Rob van der Does]

Non of us can foresee the future.
As you have a DUO, and the main wish is to have 3 tuners, this doesn't look like an emergency. So the best advise is to sit & wait........
But if waiting is too difficult, the Ultimo seems the way to go: readily available for the same price as the DUO when it hit the market.

Be aware: non of the present STB's is a full MediaPlayer; playback is limited to files that are supported by the hardware codecs of the box. IMHO they do a fine job, but if you're in the habit of 'finding' video's on the internet, a 'real' MediaPlyser is far better.

[rossi2000]

am in the same situation but i decided to buy the ultimo now.
should be here today :) job done

id consider it my mediaplayer aswell as it'll play 1080p mkvs just fine with dts, thats all i really download and play so im sorted.