Problem moving dish

[GAH2402]

Hi Guys,

Have used the search option, but can't find an aswer to my problem. I'm using Vix2.4 build 135. I've just fitted a new Triax TD110 dish with a twin Inverto Black LNB (using shotgun cable). I've also fitted a new Supreme Intelligent Dark Motor to move the dish. Got my latitude and longitude settings form the Net and lined up the dish myself. Not sure how important this is but my longitude setting of -4.105 had to be changed to -0.105 to make the dish stop at the correct position using USALS. Anyway, lined the dish up on 1 West and can now see satellites from 28 East to 30 West (I have buildings either side of my dish so don't expect to see any other satellites).

Anyway, here's my problem. If I'm on 28E and I want to move the dish to 13E, the dish won't move just by changing channels. I need to first select a channel on 1W, then use the goto 0 option in the positioner setup, wait until it gets to the zero position, and if I then select a channel on 13E the dish will move correctly. I can pick up every satellite I would expect to see using this method, and the dish lands correctly every time.

If I don't change the channel to one on 1W, the goto 0 command doesn't work. If I'm on an eastern satellite such as 13E, I can manually move the dish east in the postioner set up, but the dish won't move west. If I'm on a western satellite such as 30W, i can manually move the dish west but it won't move east!

Tuner A is set to advanced and Tuner b is set to second cable of motorised LNB Tuner A.

I'm using USALS (i've tried using Disecq and it does the same thing) and I have the extra voltage setting switched on.

Can anyone suggest anything?

GAH

[GAH2402]

Hi Guys,

Ok, got my spare box out, a Technomate TM-500. Set up USALS and scanned a few satellites, dish moved between every satellite fine. Re-connected my Vu Duo, went from 1W to 28E without any problem, tried to move West to 13E, dish didn't move. Tried to move the dish West manually from the Positioner Setup menu, dish wouldn't move (it would move East). Went up the ladder and tried to manually move the dish West using the buttons on the mount, it wouldn't move UNLESS I helped it by pushing the dish. Re-connected the Technomate again, went from 1W to 28E no problem, tried to move West to 13E, moved no problem! Moved back to 28E, tried to manually move the dish West in the Motor setup, moved ok. Moved the dish back to 28E, went up the ladder and tried to move the dish West using the buttons on the mount, it moved no problem WITHOUT any help from me!

So, is my dish too heavy for my Vu Duo to move?

My next move will be to try another image, and then to try without the HDD attached (I've read of clones having a problem running a motor and HDD, but my box is NOT a clone!).

GAH

[basilyoung]

I should,nt think its any thing to do with the hard drive, or image, and reading your post, you have gone to extreme, to try and suss out the issue,

I cant think of a reason why this situ exist either, as all common fualts that I can think of, have been "BOUNCED" by the fact that the TM is ok with the motor

[GAH2402]

Hi Basilyoung,

Thanks for the reply.

Just tried using BlackHole and to be honest it was just the same. Next option is to remove the HDD.

Is there anyone on here using a Supreme Intelligent Dark Motor with their Vu Duo, and if so, what size of dish are they using?

The Triax TD110 is 100cm wide, and I actually thought it was quite light! I managed to get it up a ladder with the mount attached on my own, so I didn't think for a minute it would be too heavy for the mount.

GAH

[basilyoung]

that size dish should be ok, as I said, I doubt the hard drive removall will make any difference either, I will look at the power settings on my unit shortly,

[Rob van der Does]

LOL, why would removing the HDD make any difference :confused:
The output of the tuner is only 500mA max; do you really think that will improve by not using a HDD?

[GAH2402]

Hi Rob van der Does,

Thanks for the reply, but do you have a better suggestion? I'm trying to make sure it isn't something I've done wrong, and I'm trying to cover all possibilities. I don't think removing the HDD will make any difference either, but it'll take me 5 minutes to find out if it does!

GAH

[Maxwell]

Did you try it without the LNB connected so you just have the cable from Duo to motor ?

Typical power consumption of your LNB is 200mA however as this is a typical figure it could be a bit more could be a bit less
Power consumption of your motor is upto 350mA
This makes a total of 550mA however due to the LNB could be slightly more or less, either way it is possible you are exceeding the current limit for the tuner.
This could also be increased by the slightest dodgy connection.

Unfortunately the only way to know for sure would be to put an ammeter in the line and actually measure it.

Not sure about the TM-500 current capability but I suspect it is slightly higher than the Duo which is why it would work ok

[GAH2402]

Hi Maxwell,

Thanks for the reply.

No I haven't tried that. I have tried without LNB 2 connected to Tuner B, and I have tried swapping the LNB cables around.

I'll try doing that later.

GAH

[Maxwell]

Just edited my post above with a bit more info

[GAH2402]

Hi Maxwell,

Thanks for the extra info.

As I suspected (and so did Rob van der Does), removing the HDD drive made no difference to the problem.

I will disconnect the LNB from the motor later today to see what difference that makes. I would have assumed that moving the dish would have cut power to the LNB anyway, but that is only my assumption! Also, when I use the goto x feature, the dish moves perfectly, which suggests there is enough power at that particular point!

GAH

[Maxwell]

Also disconnect the other lnb cable from the receiver

[TK4|2|1]

You say your using the shotgun type cable, is it a long run? As a test are you able to run a temporary standard CT100 cable to the motor?
Is there a reset on these dark motors, I know technomate ones have by holding the button down on the actual motor for a few seconds, perhaps it has some limits or positions stored In it the box doesn't like.

You also mention your longitude is -4. But you had to change it to, this suggest the mount is not set up correctly as well.
As a suggestion i would Put your correct long and lat in and Goto 1deg west and re align the mount.


Sent from my iThing, using sorcery and the magic interweb.

[Rob van der Does]

Typical power consumption of your LNB is 200mA however as this is a typical figure it could be a bit more could be a bit less
Power consumption of your motor is upto 350mA
This makes a total of 550mA however due to the LNB could be slightly more or less, either way it is possible you are exceeding the current limit for the tuner.
And don't forget that the start-up current will be even (much) higher.



.... Also, when I use the goto x feature, the dish moves perfectly, which suggests there is enough power at that particular point!
Ahhh, that proves the system to be working correctly than! So it must be something in your set-up.

[Maxwell]

Why are you using the advanced option for the tuner setup ?

All you need is

Simple
Positioner
long
lat

[GAH2402]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I've more or less tried eveything I can think off. I've saw plenty of references from people on the Net using a Diseqc motor to drive dishes of 1m and more. I know there is a limit, but as I said earlier, I actually thought my Triax TD110 was very light, expecially when compared to the 95cm dish it replaced. My dish is definitely aligned correctly, as I can pick up every satellite my dish can actually "see" from my location. I have the latest Vix 2.4 with no plugins installed using the latest Catseye settings. I have reset the motor by holding down both buttons on the mount, the dish is not being hindered in it's movements. I have also tried simple and advanced tuner settings, neither make any difference. My TM-500 seems to move the dish with no problem. I will disconnect both LNBs later today, but I can't think of anything else to try!

GAH

[Maxwell]

Why are you using the advanced option for the tuner setup ?

All you need is

Simple
Positioner
long
lat

In case you missed it lol

[digi247]

I would also try this as a test which ever satellite you are on at the moment try a channel with Horizontal polarity and then when switching to another satellite try choosing a channel with Horizontal polarity again, It could be the switch between 13/18v thats not making the motor move. Just a suggestion

[Conaxthewarrior]

Can't help with the main problem but here's a comment on the dish - I also use a Triax dish, 110cm oval on a motor drive and previously used a lighter 78cm triax. After changing to the larger, I noticed the motor makes more noise then before and turns slower. This must prove that the motor "works harder" when turning. Not that this is bad for the motor (specs say it can take up to 120cm and has been tested in wind speeds of up to 70 mph) but there is a definite effect on motors with larger dishes attached.

[GAH2402]

Hi Guys,

Not had a chance to get up on the roof and disconnect the LNB yet (won't be today as I'm off to a christening shortly), but I have discovered that I get slightly better results when moving from a low-band Horizontal channel to another low-band Horizontal channel. If I use the goto 0 option (iwhich gets the dish in an upright position). the dish will then move perfectly if I go in one direction (i.e. to 4.8E, then to 7E, then to 13E and then to 28E). I get the same results if I head west (i.e to 5W, then to 24W, then 27.5W and then 30W). The problems occur when I want to head back towards 0. If I'm on 28E, the dish will not move back to 13E on it's own (same result if I want to move from 30W to 5W), no matter whether I'm on a low band Horrizontal channel or not. The only way I get get the dish to move back up the arc is use the goto 0 option, and then select whatever satellite and channel I want from there.

Will get up on the roof tomorrow to test with the LNB (Inverto Twin Black) disconnected.

GAH

[Rob van der Does]

Do you have 'Increased voltage' set to 'yes' (in the tunerconfig)?

[GAH2402]

Do you have 'Increased voltage' set to 'yes' (in the tunerconfig)?

Yes I do, and have tried with the setting on and off. Have also tried with Tuner Configuration set to simple and to advanced.

GAH

[Rob van der Does]

Yes I do, and have tried with the setting on and off. Have also tried with Tuner Configuration set to simple and to advanced.
If set to increased there should be no difference in turning speed between horizontal/vertical.

[GAH2402]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for that info, I didn't actually realize that's what the setting did. Will do some more tesing tomorrow!

GAH

[GAH2402]

Hi Guys,

Latest update!

Been out onto the roof and disconnected LNB, it made no difference to my problem at all.

Also, after longer and more detailed testing, my Technomate TM-500 is NOT moving the dish any better than the Vu Duo!

So, I'm guessing my Triax TD110 dish is too heavy for my Supreme Intelligent Dark Motor? I don't really want to go back to a smaller dish, as I can now pick up 16E a lot better than before (my previous dish was 95cm) as well as a few less interesting sats like 24.2W. So, I guess I'm stuck with using the goto 0 option if I want to move my dish back up the arc (i.e. from 28E to 13E) unless anyone has any suggestions?

GAH

[Maxwell]

Sounds like you have a dodgy motor thats having trouble decoding the disecq commands, if the dish was too heavy you would struggle with moving the dish with the goto 0 command. Had a similar issue a couple of years ago changed the motor and all good

[GAH2402]

Hi Maxwell,

Thanks for the reply.

The goto 0 option doesn't always work UNLESS it's on a low-band Horizontal channel. If not I usually have to press the red button (for goto 0) several times before the dish will move. Also, I can move perfectly between 4.8E and 5W. If I'm any further round the arc, the dish won't always move unless I'm moving forward (i.e. 13E to 28E is fine, but 28E to 13E never works).

GAH

GAH

[skybot1]

hi
i got mine vu+ duo with blackhole image works ok with a 1.2 mtr dish and darkmotor

regards

skybot1

[digi247]

The Dark Motor Superior or Supreme will have no trouble moving the triax 1.1m its definitely a faulty motor that should be exchanged for a new one.

[stevesom]

just a thought was the motor arm on 0 when you fitted it? i have a dark superior moto,r inverto twin lnb 100cm dish using webro coax not shotgun and a duo,i have had to reset the motor by holding down both buttons for 5 seconds now it works fine.

[GAH2402]

Hi steveson,

Already tried resetting the motor, but thanks for the suggestion. I guess the only explanation is that the motor is faulty.

GAH

[basilyoung]

Well you have given a right good go,
But it's now clear.....it's a clapped out motor

[jcl]

Hello Gah
please let us know if you solve this problem
I have exactly the same issues with the darkmotor I bought and its still the same with
the replacement they sent.
dish moves with the sat meter but not with the duo got a signal of 98%-- Q95% on bbc world 1west and same sort of signal on 28east
got BH 175 installed I am going to try another receiver on the dish when I get time and if it works ok there can't be any faults with
the dish setup.
will let you know how I get on
Thanks
Regards
jcl

[GAH2402]

Hi jcl,

Sorry to hear you have a similar problem, and that a replacement motor hasn't solved your problem. I haven't had the time to swap my motor for the TM-2300 but I hope to do it this weekend. However, I did take the dish off the motor mounting pole and it moved perfectly! I puit the dish back on the pole and it was back to the same problem.

GAH

[GAH2402]

Hi,

Forgot to add that I tried another LNB, as I had previously tried moving the dish with no LNB attached. Again it made no difference. Just to recap, I have tried another receiver, another LNB and a new cable run. The ONLY time the motor will move correctly is when the dish isn't attached, so either my dish is too heavy for the motor or the motor is faulty.

I'm pretty sure i have tried ALL possibilities, so I'll be changing the motor (weather permitting!) this weekend.

GAH

[jcl]

Hi Gah
these darkmotors are supposed to be able to drive a dish up to 1.4metres so really 1.2 dish should not be a problem.
I actually fitted this new darkmotor at my sons house to a 1 metre dish.
my setup runs on a tm cryptik motor fitted 5years ago and still runs perfect on the vu duo.
what's confusing is the motor will drive to all sats with the sat meter but not with the vu.
I am at my sons house tomorrow so I am going to have a play in the menus of the vu and reset the motor.
I am beginning to believe that these darkmotors are not compatible with vu boxes it's unlikely to have two brand
new motors that don't work.Hope everything goes ok for you when you fit your new motor, I'm sure it will.
Regards
jcl

[GAH2402]

Hi Everyone,

Fitted the new TM-2300 motor today, and guess what, IT WORKED! :D

So, either the Darkmotor isn't compatible with the Vu Duo (of course, that means it's also not compatible with a TM-500 Super as it wouldn't work with that receiver either!), or more likely it's faulty! At least I know it's not my fault or the fault of any other piece of my set up, just need to try and get it replaced under warranty now!

GAH

[jcl]

Well done, glad you finally got it sorted.
had a play with my sons darkmotor and vu set up today
Went into the vu service searching menu and sent the dish to 0 by pressing red button.
disconnected both A/B tuner cables from the vu then reconnected just tuner A.
back into the service menu and again sent the dish to 0 and then tried various satellites.
it found all satellites but what I did find that without any cards or config files active in the vu
there was a problem driving to satellites if a ppv channel was selected.it found all satellites
when fta channels were selected. so, will now have to see if it's still working tomorrow.
jcl

[stevesom]

ive just had a similar problem after updating to 2.4 my dish wouldnt move to any other satellite after reloading my bouquets and satellites,done a hard reset on the motor (Dark motor) no joy what i did find that when i tried to go to say canal de historia 30 west or any other satellite tuner B is flashing pink just done a service scan on tuner A and its still the same the only satellite at the moment thats working is 28.2 with tuner A

[basilyoung]

so its tuner A controlling the dish??
tuner B, its not recording is it?
or are you sure Tuner B is set up correctly

as far as the motor goes, if it worked on this unit before, it should do now
and defo nothing to do with the image

[stevesom]

yes tuner A controlling the dish and tuner B set as tuner A, B not recording i took my tuner config before updating as advised,its pink when i try to change to a different satellite channel,just done a scan on 30 west with tuner A and its still the same but i didnt clear before the scan

[basilyoung]

try removing the tuner B,s coax cable, and set tuner B, to not in use

[stevesom]

ok thanks i will take a look in the morning and update

[basilyoung]

please do,....as said, its likely that its some thing simple, so narrow down the issue, in this case, disable and disconnect tuner B

[Rob van der Does]

yes tuner A controlling the dish and tuner B set as tuner A,
Well, that's wrong than, because that means you have two motors.
Either you have one cable coming from your motor (than set tuner B to 'looptrough from tuner A') or you have two cables coming from a twin-LNB in the motor (so set tuner B to 'second cable from motor').

[TK4|2|1]

I read on another forum someone having problems with dark motor and vix, his solution was to lower the horizontal and vertical rates, what ever that is?

[stevesom]

Done what basilyoung suggested the dish moves if i unplug tuner B when i Plug it back in the dish wont move again thats my tuner config set as simple and the same settings as tuner A. which was the setting in 2.3.
Rob my motorised set up is coax from lnb to motor, then motor to tuner A on the reciever,then i have my other coax from the lnb straight to tuner B
what is the best setting for this setup?

[Maxwell]

set tuner A to simple positioner and tuner B to second cable of motorised dish and dont forget to reboot afterwards

[stevesom]

Thanks again gentlemen another fix for me, i set B to second cable of motorised dish,although loopthrough from tuner A worked as well.

[Rob van der Does]

Yes, technically loopthrough will work as well. But why would you limit yourself by not telling the truth?

After all, if you would use a loopthrough you wouldn't have bought a twin-LNB and not have had a second cable. Now that you have those, you should fully exploit those.

[stevesom]

Yes, technically loopthrough will work as well. But why would you limit yourself by not telling the truth?
dont understand what you mean?

After all, if you would use a loopthrough you wouldn't have bought a twin-LNB and not have had a second cable. Now that you have those, you should fully exploit those.

sorry rob dont quite understand what you mean i am new to all this i dont know the difference between loopthrough and B to second motorised dish,unless you can explain the difference?

[Rob van der Does]

If you use a loopthrough tuner B can only 'look' at the same 'quadrant' (High/Low - Horizontal/Vertical) as tuner A is tuned to. Using a second LNB, as you do, tuner B is not limited, but can look at all transponders (but of course only on the same satellite as tuner A).
And that's the very reason you bought yourself a twin-LNB (which is two LNB's in one housing) and invested in a second cable from the dish to your box !

FYI: In the satellite world part of the tuning is done by the LNB: the tuner sets the LNB to a quadrant; further tuning is done by the box. That is also the reason that you can't use splitters to split a signal to several receivers (as you can do for DVB-T/C reception).

[Maxwell]

loopthrough means that the second tuner can 'see' everything the first tuner can see so you can use a single lnb but the second tuner will still only have access to the same polarity and band that the other tuner is on at the time. With a twin lnb and independent cable to the second tuner you have full access to all bands/polarity available on both tuners at the same time

[stevesom]

I understand a little more now thanks for explaining it to me,i see i should have used this setting when i was on vix 2.3 but as it worked i didnt think nothing of it.
regards