View Full Version : Question for Andy,Phoenix and the rest of the Vix Team.
How difficult would it be to add a lock feature to the main menu so nobody can change any of the settings etc.
Guy over at DK was wondering, I said I would ask the question over here, thanks in advance guys.
as in like pin protect the access to main menu and the vix menu?
yeah i saw the thread in question a little earlier although as i'm not a coder i really have no idea how difficult or not it would be to implement this kind of parental lock feature. It would be a nice addition to any image though to be able to fully lock the vital parts of the image down and child proof it.
as in like pin protect the access to main menu and the vix menu?
pretty much yes. a method to stop prying eyes or fingers from going into any setup critical areas of the image such as tuner setup or the blue button menu or even the menu button it self without first needing a pin number. There are some parental controls but no E2 based image has to my knowledge a fully functioning parental control setup.
Go into configuration and change menu to simple, that will remove most advanced features.
Sent from my iThing, using sorcery and the magic interweb.
satmanbasil
06-04-12, 15:45
Hi
@TK4
Thats fine but i think some members wish a more secure way using password protect to stop access rather than hide the advance features.
A lock on entering the main menu would be great, then once in the menu you can navigate to whatever you need to do, ( ie press menu on remote, then input pin lock code, then menu's open up).
hi guys,
dell_xps highly recommended this forum and i'm not disappointed.
it was me who suggested a more secure image. i used to own the nokia dbox2 which had linux neutrino and one of the brilliant things about it was that you could pin protect every advanced option or full menu, so that kids could not mess this up.
the problem with the current images is that although they do have pin protection in the menu for channels, that kind of beats the point, if kids can go into almost all other options, such as backup, factory reset, network, cam settings with nothing to stop them and before someone says hide the remote, what is the point if kids can't watch their channels without me having to each time change the channel? Also never mind kids, even adults whom are not used to the box can end up by accident changing the settings, so i think this is a vital part of the jigsaw that needs to be fixed to get one of the best images.
i don't know how much complex work is involved, but maybe someone could create a dedicated parental control menu, which has the option to hide/password protect every menu, including the blue button which brings up the cam settings? or remap the colour buttons, so that cam settings are only within a password protected menu?
sorry, i'm babbling on a bit :baby:...i'll wait for your replies, but keep up the brilliant work! :thumbsup:
and before someone says hide the remote, what is the point if kids can't watch their channels without me having to each time change the channel?
Yes i saw that reply, although to be fair to the OP it was made in jest and not meant as a literal suggestion. as for your pin protection idea i do quite like and agree that a more secure parental lock mode would be preferential, I however not being a coder would not have any idea on how or where to start. maybe asking andyblac would be the best way forward here.
I agree it would be a good idea to PIN protect setup but in the meantime once you are setup to your liking just do a full image backup so if anything is messed with, you can be back and running in a few minutes
Yes i saw that reply, although to be fair to the OP it was made in jest and not meant as a literal suggestion. as for your pin protection idea i do quite like and agree that a more secure parental lock mode would be preferential, I however not being a coder would not have any idea on how or where to start. maybe asking andyblac would be the best way forward here.
I hope you don't mind me asking, but who is andyblac and how can i get this issue across to him?
I agree it would be a good idea to PIN protect setup but in the meantime once you are setup to your liking just do a full image backup so if anything is messed with, you can be back and running in a few minutes
I wish i could backup, but i don't have an internal hdd....i only have a 500gb usb external hard drive, which i don't think you can connect to the vu+ duo (clone) can you?
If you can, then would i be able to partition that drive, so that one part can be used by the box and the other by general windows for my own personal usage?
andyblac is the creator and coder for the ViX image and can be reached via this very forum. as for creating a backup providing you are using the ViX image then you can make a image backup to a USB stick, internal HDD, external USB HDD
I wish i could backup, but i don't have an internal hdd....i only have a 500gb usb external hard drive, which i don't think you can connect to the vu+ duo (clone) can you?
What are you doing with a clone? You ain't getting support for that here.
i didn't know that i had bought a clone mate until it was too late. i have tried to get my money back from the seller, but they are not accepting. i've lodged a complaint to paypal, but this is a going to take a long time to get dealt with, so i might as well use it whilst its there.
Fair enough, a b***s being caught like that.
yea I remember now about you getting cheated like that. why dont you take the HDD out of its external box and fit it internally, you should find that the drive itself has a SATA interface, I done it several times, in fact all the drives in my Server were external, the external casing is just fitted with USB>Sata interface
the problem max is that its a 500gb drive divided into 2 partitions:
100gb (ntfs) - i need to backup windows programs and documents etc on a regular basis
400gb (fat32) - this is empty and i just want to use this to record/backup movies.
cant you get your hands on a 1GB USB stick, average backup is only upto about 85MB depending on what plugins etc you have
i've got a 4gb usb stick so a backup would not be a problem :)
but could i use an usb hard drive for recording? if so, could i use it with 2 partitions or would i lose the partition?
thanks again!
You will have to put it in there and see what the system recognises, if it only sees 1 drive and you initialise it in the receiver you will lose either one partition (the one it can see) or maybe both
right, brilliant...i'll backup the data, just incase i lose the partition.
thanks again
I think password protection would be a nightmare to implement. There are so many ways in (menu, blue button, webif, ftp, telnet) that it would be easy to get around. And if the box was really well protected it is just a case of a reflash and you're in. You need to think where you are going to store the passwords, in what format, will they be encrypted, what are you going to do if someone forgets the password, etc. And then from a developer's point of view it would be a nightmare too because everybody would have different needs. Some would want one menu locked and not another and someone else would want the opposite. Some would want to lock channels but that would just mean deleting the channel and rescanning.
From the point of view of breaking the box, I've got a 2 year old, a 7 year old, a 9 year old, a 22 year and a wife and none have managed to get the receiver in a mess.
And from the point of view of a child seeing something you don't want them to, don't have those sort of channels and if you do remove the card from the box when you are not supervising.
thanks for explaining huevos. I actually didn't mean full password, but simply 4-digit pin. Also i didn't mean block every single option individually, but actually moving all the advanced options under one menu option and then pin-protect that option. At the moment, if i press the blue button, i get the cam settings...these are not needed everytime, so could be placed under a locked menu option. Options like backup, restore are not needed all the time, so again these could be placed within a sub-menu.
Here is an example from the blackhole image (when a certain button is pressed):-
Current menu:
Blackhole Full Backup
Blackhole Personal Backup
Media Player
Blackhole EPG Backup
DVD Player
Timer
Information
Setup (Cannot be pin-protected)
Blackhole Shutdown
Press Blue Button:
CAM Settings
Press Green Button:
Plugins/Green Panel
New Menu:
Media Player
DVD Player
Timer
Information
Setup(PIN-PROTECTED)
|
|
|
----------Blackhole Full Backup
----------Blackhole Personal Backup
----------Blackhole EPG Backup
----------CAM Settings
----------Plugins/Green Panel
Blackhole Shutdown
scruff1963
07-04-12, 18:42
I'm new to this forum but not to others.
Any passwords implementation like described will stop the children from playing.
But it will also make it a traders dream image.
Sorry to be cynical but I can't see any valid reason for locking the box up with passwords especially the cams and channel scanning in my opinion this is for traders to earn bigger bucks.
If the kids mess up the settings it's not exactly hard to put them back in again.
Simple just have a pin lock on the main menu, default 0000, and then have another pin code say for example 7486 that should be able to open if you forget the pass code you have changed default to.
@ scruff - how does pin-protecting a part of a menu, to make it more child-friendly, suddenly make it any better for traders? Thats just ridiculous.
@ dell - agreed mate. just a basic pin system...remember, its mainly to stop accidental change of settings, not exactly creating 256bit AES or Blowfish pin, lol
I think password protection would be a nightmare to implement. There are so many ways in (menu, blue button, webif, ftp, telnet) that it would be easy to get around. And if the box was really well protected it is just a case of a reflash and you're in. You need to think where you are going to store the passwords, in what format, will they be encrypted, what are you going to do if someone forgets the password, etc. And then from a developer's point of view it would be a nightmare too because everybody would have different needs. Some would want one menu locked and not another and someone else would want the opposite. Some would want to lock channels but that would just mean deleting the channel and rescanning.
From the point of view of breaking the box, I've got a 2 year old, a 7 year old, a 9 year old, a 22 year and a wife and none have managed to get the receiver in a mess.
And from the point of view of a child seeing something you don't want them to, don't have those sort of channels and if you do remove the card from the box when you are not supervising.
Same here mate, 3, 5, 9 and 12. I am surprised at the 3 year old who can use the box with a Harmony remote and not once had any crashes or other issues. :thumbsup:
@ scruff - how does pin-protecting a part of a menu, to make it more child-friendly, suddenly make it any better for traders? Thats just ridiculous.
@ dell - agreed mate. just a basic pin system...remember, its mainly to stop accidental change of settings, not exactly creating 256bit AES or Blowfish pin, lol
I think he is thinking of payserver and how they password protect telnet / ftp when selling boxes and could use the same to lockdown certain areas of the menu.
everyone's kids are different mate...all i'm saying is rather than have a pin to block channels, add a pin for the menu options too...thats it.
scruff1963
07-04-12, 20:44
technomate make an sr image for traders and you can't do anything except watch tv, if you want to scan, setup a cam for your sky card or anything else you have to pay.
Make a backup if the kids kill the box reflash.
If you had a dbox2 for a while then you will know the 1st general release image to give the option to switch off menu's was dw 1.5 and it could not be password protected specifically to stop traders, unfortunately the tuxbox boys modified the code to add password protection for each menu imho a big step backwards, I can understand the need to hide menu's from the kids but the password is for me just a traders trick.
I can understand if you guys don't want to incorporate the idea into the image, maybe someone can develop a plugin to use ?, that way it can be installed by anybody that needs it :-)
Just my 2pence worth.
Well said dell...if adding a pin directly to an image is such a problem, then a plugin could solve this.
well my kids have never messed my box up which is more than I can say for the Mrs. This request has traders writen allover it if you want a trader friendly image get yourselfs over to a technomate forum its only a mater of time before a locked TM Twin image apears.
Sorry mick, but i disagree that this request has traders written all over it. I'm not a trader, but simply a parent, whom has had this problem and to be honest i'm a bit sick and tired of all the comments "oh well my kids have never messed my box up". If an image is pin locked, it can still be erased and replaced with a new image anyway, so really there isn't an issue, but your making it into one.
As Dell said before...if locking down an image is going to be such an issue due to traders, then why not release a plugin that allows users to add a pin if they wish?
The whole point of forums is to discuss and put ones point of view across, which every one has a rite to. I personally can see both points of view and both have their valid points as well as their pit falls.
I'm def not a trader, just don't trust anybody else with the remote, there push button happy in my house...lol
i agree with you pheonix, but you can understand my frustration...this thread was simply about adding basic pin protection to stop someone by accident, messing up a setting, but i feel its turning into a "oh he's a trader" campaign and is now 4 pages long, without any actual interest in solving a common issue.
Every kid/adult is different..some will know not to touch settings, some will by accident mess up settings and some will deliberately mess up the settings...please stop comparing your kids with mine.
I still say that dell's idea is the best....if you have an issue integrating a pin into the image, then why not create a plugin that allows a user to manually add a pin to the menu...this way the choice is of a user and not a trader.
PS. Kids have just now by accident pressed the "blue button" and messed with the cam settings :mad:
i agree with you pheonix, but you can understand my frustration...this thread was simply about adding basic pin protection to stop someone by accident, messing up a setting, but i feel its turning into a "oh he's a trader" campaign and is now 4 pages long, without any actual interest in solving a common issue.
Yes i do understand your frustration but as i said this is a public forum and as such people will comment and put their own opinions across whether you agree with them or not, thats how forums work.
Every kid/adult is different..some will know not to touch settings, some will by accident mess up settings and some will deliberately mess up the settings...please stop comparing your kids with mine.
well i have no kids so i cant very well compare them to yours LOL but i do have a young niece and nephew who are taught not to play with things they should not.
I still say that dell's idea is the best....if you have an issue integrating a pin into the image, then why not create a plugin that allows a user to manually add a pin to the menu...this way the choice is of a user and not a trader.
PS. Kids have just now by accident pressed the "blue button" and messed with the cam settings :mad:
as i pointed out i am not a coder and to be honest i have no idea just how easy or hard such a task would be. I will point out though that if it were a simple thing to implement it would surely have been done before now on some image or other.
if it can be done on old dbox2 neutrino images (which are linux based), then i'm sure it can also be done on these too...they already have pin protection...but that only stops prying eyes from say the adult channels...move that pin system to "advanced menu options" and you've got a winning formula.
oh i just had another idea.
is it possible they could create a lockable the menu, but rather than have a pin, a user could press a certain combination of buttons, to lock/unlock it? :thumbsup:
Well said dell...if adding a pin directly to an image is such a problem, then a plugin could solve this.You can't do this with a plugin. A plugin is something additional. If you draw a parallel between a house and the image, a plugin is like a dish washer, a television, or something to put on the mantlepiece. If you want to raise the security you have to modify the house itself (change doors, windows, locks, add bars, etc), just adding a new dishwasher (even if it has a child lock on it) is not going to make the house more secure.
You can't do this with a plugin. A plugin is something additional. If you draw a parallel between a house and the image, a plugin is like a dish washer, a television, or something to put on the mantlepiece. If you want to raise the security you have to modify the house itself (change doors, windows, locks, add bars, etc), just adding a new dishwasher (even if it has a child lock on it) is not going to make the house more secure.
So what do you suggest mate? What about the idea of locking/hiding menu using a key combination?
scruff1963
08-04-12, 16:41
It can be done.
You just have to find someone willing to do it.
If you go through the code you can find the code for the customise menu where you get expert, simple, intermediate and adjust it for what you want.
I did the 1st dynamic menu's for the dbox2 in a general release image, I was pretty disgusted when the tuxbox boys took the idea and made the menu items passwordable (it's a neutrino standard now :( ), I havn't put a diff to them since.
Lets just forget plugin or the password method guys, but a multiple remote-key-combo should be okay.
Where is the main coder whom i can speak to about this?
So what do you suggest mate?Well personally I'm completely against the idea. I'd hate to see any feature added to the image that could be used for financial gain.
huevos - right mate i understand, although i'm baffled as to how using a simple key combination on the remote will allow someone to make loads of money.
scruff1963
08-04-12, 22:33
I have explained.
Traders lock the menu's then charge £10 to £20 just to rescan the channels, it was big business in my area in the cable days.
You might be genuine but that kind of feature is what the traders look for.
I have explained.
Traders lock the menu's then charge £10 to £20 just to rescan the channels, it was big business in my area in the cable days.
You might be genuine but that kind of feature is what the traders look for.
And that is why most unscrupulous traders use a closed sourced receiver as this can do exactly what the OP wants
I think you have missed my posts..FORGET pin...what key combination?
Guys we get what is asked for and we may consider it but at the moment it is not a priority for the team or something we are looking to develop for the immediate future.
There is a features request thread on the forum and all suggestions can be put in there. Andy reads the forums and if he likes an idea and wants to develop it no doubt he will. Please do not contact him via PM or anything else to pursue any suggestions other than the feature request thread.
Thanks
Rob van der Does
09-04-12, 10:04
..... Andy reads the forums and if he likes an idea and wants to develop it no doubt he will.
......and if it's possible at all (which very often is not the case).
And you should realize that the very same idea pops up quite often on all the image-support forums; and still this functionality has never been implemented. I wonder why...........?
satmanbasil
09-04-12, 13:19
Hi guys
Reading the thread seems opinion is divided over this , either it will happen and be added to the image albeit directly or via a plugin option if all else fails im sure if another image comes available like all good consumers people will walk with there feet and change image, right now its a simple case of waiting and warning the wife n kids not to play with your box lol
regards
yup, i guess with the way this thread has gone, unfortunately that is the only way.
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