View Full Version : Upgrading to a vu+ (Ultimo)?
Hi all,
I currently own a DM800 and have been thinking about exchanging it for a vu+ (ultimo).
Thing is, except for wanting to exchange it (don't we all need change from time to time?) I really don't know what exactly I would gain by exchanging it for a vu+.
I have been using my current box for watching TV and the occasional use of a plugin (IMDB, YouTube etc) but other then that I don't think I have fully explored the capabilities of the box.
I have been thinking about the Ultimo mainly because it's the latest and greatest model but it might as well be more then I need.
Comparing with a Uno, what are the main differences, things I can do with one but not the other?
Confused and thankful for replies,
Happy new year btw.
I have been using my current box for watching TV and the occasional use of a plugin (IMDB, YouTube etc) but other then that I don't think I have fully explored the capabilities of the box.
The Ultimo is an out and out enthusiasts machine.
I think you have to ask yourself how much of an 'enthusiast' you are to justify the additional cost. TBH if as you say you have not explored your DM800 to any great extent then you've answered your own question.
By the sounds of it the Ultimo is probably a bit of an overkill for you.
HTH
With the Ultimo you would be gaining a far more higher spec'd receiver. Faster CPU, more ram, twin tuner as standard and possibility to add a third tuner. Superb quality, superb picture quality, superb massive OLED front display. I wouldn't give mine up for the world :D
Thanks for your replies.
Am I correct in that the Uno is a single tuner and therefor will only record the same channel you are dialed into while with a twin tuner you can watch one channel and record another (alternative watch something recorded and record from two channels)?
Or is the amount of tuners only related to how many external devices (dish, cable) you can plug into the box?
Thanks
Thanks for your replies.
Am I correct in that the Uno is a single tuner and therefor will only record the same channel you are dialed into while with a twin tuner you can watch one channel and record another (alternative watch something recorded and record from two channels)?
Thanks
Yes thats correct. The Uno is single tuner, you'll only be able to watch and record channels on the same satellite and transponder.
Yes thats correct. The Uno is single tuner, you'll only be able to watch and record channels on the same satellite and transponder.
Thanks... taking into account that I have a single motorized dish and therefore can only be at one satellite at the time... when you say "same satellite and transponder"... are you then saying that although all channels are on the same satellite the transponder might not be the same?
Or is it so that I must physically insert a second cable into the box (by splitting my one cable) to actually use the second tuner?
As you probably notice I dont have much technical knowledge.
Each tuner must have their own independent feed, you cannot split a satellite signal. Yes the channels are split over various transponders on each satellite. So to make best use of a twin or triple tuner receiver you would need to fit a twin or quad LNB or a fixed Dish for UK channels on one tuner, then motorised on another. Fixed Zone 1 & 2 dishes are very cheap from our sponsor http://www.world-of-satellite.co.uk/Satallite-Dishes/Raven-Sky-Zone1-and-Zone2-dishes
If you dont have the need of recording many channels, you wont go wrong with Uno.
Rob van der Does
01-01-12, 15:25
Each tuner must have their own independent feed, you cannot split a satellite signal.
No, but you can use the loop through that each tuner offers.
Of course real independent feeds will obviously give you far more flexibility, but anyway using that the other tuners can be tuned to transponders in the same quadrant (same polarity and frequency band).
Also you have the possibility to place a twin-LNB in the motorised dish and give tuner B a "second cable from motor", and tuner 3 a loopthrough from there. Although bound to the same satellite this will provide you more flexibility for minimal costs.
Thanks... taking into account that I have a single motorized dish and therefore can only be at one satellite at the time... when you say "same satellite and transponder"... are you then saying that although all channels are on the same satellite the transponder might not be the same?
Or is it so that I must physically insert a second cable into the box (by splitting my one cable) to actually use the second tuner?
As you probably notice I dont have much technical knowledge.
If you have one motorised dish, single lnb then you will be limited to
1. Same satellite
2. Record one channel and watch or listen to another TV/Radio on the same transponder.
If you have one motorised dish with twin or quad lnb you can then have
1. Same satellite
2. Record one channel and watch any TV/Radio on any transponder via Tuner 2 or 3 (if you add another)
A Transponder is effectively a Frequency, polarity, symbol rate and frequency error corrections. Within each transponder you will have a 'bouquet'. A bouquet being a selection of TV/radio channels being transmitted within that one single transponder.
This is what we mean that you can watch or listen to any other channel within that transponder if you are recording something else within the same bouquet.
If you have two or three satellite dishes (motorised) then the possibilities become further widespread.
But I have to come back to your original question as you sound a bit confused as to what it is you maybe trying to achieve.
The DM800 is HD and linux and it sounds you are considering changing for changes sake, perhaps ?
Upgrading to an Ultimo is going to cost £500+. It's a lot of money. If the features you have been using on the DM800 have been limited to simple plugins then I would say you really are heading into overkill.
However, if you really must, then the Uno or Duo would also make eminent sense. Personally if you have no need for pluggable tuners or moving into DVB T/C then I would recommend the Duo.
All the VU machines are superb.
Ohh... so I actually would have to modify my current set-up to be able to take advantage of a twin tuner... if not, I would be just as fine with the Uno (except for not having quite the same hardware specs)?
In case of keeping my motorized single LNB dish AND adding a second dish pointing towards my favorite satellite, I suppose the box will know how to separate between the two dishes and not move the motorized dish towards the same satellite the fixed dish is dialed into (unless its specifically instructed to)?
The more I learn, the more questions I have :(
Thanks guys
Rob van der Does
01-01-12, 16:00
Correct, the box is quite capable of correct handling more then just one dish (if the tuner setup is correct).
The more I learn, the more questions I have
That's quite normal, quite human in fact: the more you know, the more you know what you don't know!
And it's also good to ask the questions before buying a box.......
The DM800 is HD and linux and it sounds you are considering changing for changes sake, perhaps ?
Absolutely! :)
I wish the DM800 was faster changing between channels and I understand the newer vu+ boxes will do just that.
I'm not a fan of the looks of the 800 but do like the size.
I would VERY MUCH like to set up a second dish pointing in my wife's satellite's direction + keep my motorized dish "for me".
That way I could record anything she would want to see while I watch my stuff live :)
Rob van der Does
01-01-12, 16:08
That way I could record anything she would want to see while I watch my stuff live :)
Here the household policy is to record everything one might possibly want to see. That way viewing conflicts can be sorted out before hand, and more importantly: all programs can be watched at a convenient time, not at the time your channel wants you to view them, and without any breaks.
Ohh... so I actually would have to modify my current set-up to be able to take advantage of a twin tuner... if not, I would be just as fine with the Uno (except for not having quite the same hardware specs)?
In case of keeping my motorized single LNB dish AND adding a second dish pointing towards my favorite satellite, I suppose the box will know how to separate between the two dishes and not move the motorized dish towards the same satellite the fixed dish is dialed into (unless its specifically instructed to)?
The more I learn, the more questions I have :(
Thanks guys
For the sake of repeating myself. I think you have to ask what you are trying to achieve here.
1. Requirement
2. Flexibility
3. Budget
The order of those three will depend on what you are seeking and how much you are prepared to try achieve it.
The cheapest upgrade for you assuming you go to a twin tuner machine will be a Twin Lnb.
Next up will be a second fixed dish, then next up second motorised dish etc etc.
As an example with a VU twin tuner machine you can assign Tuner A to your motorised dish and the Tuner B to say a fixed dish at 28.2E.
In this instance when you switch to 28.2E the machine will automatically direct throughput from Tuner B. Anything else will go via Tuner A and the motorised set up.
Everything comes at a cost and as I say you have to revert back to the 3 points I have made above as to what it is you are ultimately trying to achieve.
Absolutely! :)
I wish the DM800 was faster changing between channels and I understand the newer vu+ boxes will do just that.
I'm not a fan of the looks of the 800 but do like the size.
I would VERY MUCH like to set up a second dish pointing in my wife's satellite's direction + keep my motorized dish "for me".
That way I could record anything she would want to see while I watch my stuff live :)
All the VU machines are a lot larger than the DM800.
Solo/Uno being the smallest. The Duo and Ultimo commanding full rack space.
If you are prepared to set up a second dish and from your requirement then perhaps a twin tuner machine is what you require.
Personally I would head towards a Duo, or an Xtrend/Clarke. Not only will you get a hugely flexible machine but you will get an additional dish set up all for well under the price of an Ultimo alone.
Thanks guys,
I now understand the requirements and how to take advantage of a second tuner and I believe I will go with alternative 2 there Ekkostar :)
While none of the boxes can be considered "cheap" I'm not in a situation where I have to pick one or another based on their price.
The Ultimo/Duo it is... even though it might be more then I currently need... who knows... might be me answering questions here in a years time!
Thanks for all input and explanation of the technical terms!
Thanks guys,
I now understand the requirements and how to take advantage of a second tuner and I believe I will go with alternative 2 there Ekkostar :)
While none of the boxes can be considered "cheap" I'm not in a situation where I have to pick one or another based on their price.
The Ultimo/Duo it is... even though it might be more then I currently need... who knows... might be me answering questions here in a years time!
Thanks for all input and explanation of the technical terms!
Glad to be of assistance.
Any linux machine (not embedded) will provide serious ongoing flexibility. The rest is hardware limitations.
You have to bear in mind cost/price even if you can/cannot afford it. You can try to future proof yourself but receivers are forever changing !
In your position I would seriously consider the Duo, at current prices it's the 'gem' in the VU line up. Due to the sheer numbers it has sold and the huge widespread support it has, you will be hard done by to look any further.
That machine and it's support are not going anywhere for a long time to come.
If you really wish to overkill/indulge then by all means consider the Ultimo.
Glad to be of assistance.
Any linux machine (not embedded) will provide serious ongoing flexibility. The rest is hardware limitations.
You have to bear in mind cost/price even if you can/cannot afford it. You can try to future proof yourself but receivers are forever changing !
In your position I would seriously consider the Duo, at current prices it's the 'gem' in the VU line up. Due to the sheer numbers it has sold and the huge widespread support it has, you will be hard done by to look any further.
That machine and it's support are not going anywhere for a long time to come.
If you really wish to overkill/indulge then by all means consider the Ultimo.
You might be right Ekkostar... I have to admit it sounds tempting to go for a duo and trick it out with a 1TB internal HDD... for less money then the Ultimo... decisions, decisions :)
I will make up my mind today, that's for sure!
Just to add my two pennies to this conversation. If money was not an issue, than for me it would be the Ultimo all the way. Its better speced and you have the option of triple tuners and believe me in time you will need them. I have several boxes and still encounter conflicts when recording.
I hardly ever watch live tv apart from when testing the image, otherwise its when I want to watch without the adds.
I have a DUO as well and its a great box for the money. It does what it says on the tin. I have one of the very first builds and it has been rocked solid. Its the family box so from 8AM to 10/11PM it is on more or less the whole time.
Thanks for your input Stanman... Yes, I guess its all about understanding a different concept of watching TV... I watch all things live as I have no HDD installed but I can see myself getting used to recording :)
I have to admit it sounds tempting to go for a duo and trick it out with a 1TB internal HDD... for less money then the Ultimo... decisions, decisions :)
I will make up my mind today, that's for sure!
For the same price you'll get a Duo, a HDD and quite probably a second dish fitted. If you can install a dish yourself (28.2E is not difficult) then you'll save even more.
A fortnight ago that was considered a premium set up. Not a lot has changed since then and won't for the considerable future. Ultimo or no Ultimo.
You're DM800 is still a perfectly capable machine ;)
I have both the Ultimo and the Duo. However, I honestly could not say one is better than the other. Specs on paper are one thing and in real use it's yet another. Horses for courses as they say.
I would say rock solid top end twin dish twin tuner system is the Duo. It's not the cheapest by any stretch but it's by far the best bang for your buck you'll get if you're serious about satellite.
I love the Ultimo but in all honesty it's an indulgence for all but the hardcore enthusiast.
For the same price you'll get a Duo, a HDD and quite probably a second dish fitted. If you can install a dish yourself (28.2E is not difficult) then you'll save even more.
A fortnight ago that was considered a premium set up. Not a lot has changed since then and won't for the considerable future. Ultimo or no Ultimo.
You're DM800 is still a perfectly capable machine ;)
I have both the Ultimo and the Duo. However, I honestly could not say one is better than the other. Specs on paper are one thing and in real use it's yet another. Horses for courses as they say.
I would say rock solid top end twin dish twin tuner system is the Duo. It's not the cheapest by any stretch but it's by far the best bang for your buck you'll get if you're serious about satellite.
I love the Ultimo but in all honesty it's an indulgence for all but the hardcore enthusiast.
I agree with almost everything stated here except the 800HD does not match any of the Vu range as far as speed and performance go.
If one order a box with pre-installed image and HDD, the only thing left to do would be to paste over personal config files and such.
Is there a guide for what to transfer or is this something you could ask the reseller to do for an extra fee?
The reseller could basically have access to the current box through ftp and copy over what ever has to be copied over and ship the box afterwards? Or this might not be something resellers do?
I know if you ask the sponsor he will fit the HDD and flash the image but not sure on the others.
Drop him a PM and see what he can do for you.
If one order a box with pre-installed image and HDD, the only thing left to do would be to paste over personal config files ?
Pretty sure the sponsor will look after you and set the machine up image and HDD wise
The latter question about config files is a no, no :nono:.
As I said earlier, if you want machines of this calibre you will really need to learn what to do for yourself.
Thanks guys for your help and guidance...
I will most definitely read up on how to make the most out of the box and hopefully learn something on the way.
When you say sponsor... are we talking about "same-name-but.co.uk"? would make sense I guess, I'll send them an email.
Again, thanks
Qpush
Yes - the sponsor is worldofsatellite and you won't go far wrong ordering from here. My Duo came from here and the service was great. My Ultimo came from elsewhere because I wanted it NOW!
Speaking of Ultimo - if you are hell bent and have money burning a hole then go for it. It is a fine machine. But (pardon the pun) I would echo what Ekko said. It doesn't add a whole lot more over what the Duo currently does than an extra tuner. The remote and display look $exy as hell but having used it, the remote is pretty disappointing and scrolling functionality and picons on the display are in their infancy.
For the money, you certainly won't go wrong with a duo - a VERY capable machine, and since the latest kernal upgrade it is very fast and pretty bomb proof.
So far as getting it set up, there are certain things that cannot be discussed on here but if for example you are looking to set up a subscription card for that receiver alone then my experience is that you will get all the help you need here.
Once you start using these boxes, it kind of becomes second nature and is all pretty straightforward.
Good luck whatever you decide to go with.
Mark
That settles it... I guess it makes sense.
I'll go for the duo and trick it out really nicely with a 2TB HDD, a shiny new dish and a killer LNB... all for less or the same price as the Ultimo.
Thanks guys again for your honesty and explanation of things.
Will place my order with the UK sponsor although I live in Central Europe... nice to get a box pre-configured by people who know what they are doing instead of trying it myself :)
I guess you will be seeing more of me in the future!
Happy new Year
If you really want a triple tuner box the sponsor will be getting the latest version of the Sundek DVB S tuners some time in January and they work with VIX.
I think it will be more then enough with a twin tuner... having a second dish installed will be an even bigger project then purchasing the box :)
I think it will be more then enough with a twin tuner...Not if it is a family box. I often go to watch something in the evening after everyone has gone to bed and find there is a list of multiple, overlapping recordings the wife has programmed. Other times I can't use the box because the kids are streaming one tuner to their bedroom and the missus has got something recording on the other tuner.
Rob van der Does
03-01-12, 15:54
Not if it is a family box. I often go to watch something in the evening after everyone has gone to bed and find there is a list of multiple, overlapping recordings the wife has programmed. Other times I can't use the box because the kids are streaming one tuner to their bedroom and the missus has got something recording.
LOL, correct, and that's an example from real live......
my findings about Vu ultimo
- not dx / hobby oriented, looking more at computer features than a receiver
- front panel Is not build as a high end at all
- I find It hard to work with compared to my old enigma 1 dreambox db5620 - maybe as a result of loosing a case from dreambox regarding enigma
- bad tuner sensitivity at high ku band and nothing special at low ku band
really like to know what owners of both duo and ultimo think
my findings about Vu ultimo
- not dx / hobby oriented, looking more at computer features than a receiver
- front panel Is not build as a high end at all
- I find It hard to work with compared to my old enigma 1 dreambox db5620 - maybe as a result of loosing a case from dreambox regarding enigma
- bad tuner sensitivity at high ku band and nothing special at low ku band
really like to know what owners of both duo and ultimo think
Pretty much every E2 box is sold as an enthusiast box, they certainly are not plug and play, if you want that there are plenty of other box's around that are.
Not sure what you mean by the front panel ???
E1 and E2 box's are very different, they can not really be compared (well not anymore than you could compare a nokia 3310 to an iPhone 4s, they both make and receive calls and texts and thats pretty much as far as you can compare them).
As for the tuner, they seem fine to me, but I agree that they can be prone to interference if you have a DECT phone close to the receiver.
Both my Duo and Ultimo are better to use, better value and better made than either of my Dreambox's were (dm7000 and dm800HD)
- bad tuner sensitivity at high ku band and nothing special at low ku band
really like to know what owners of both duo and ultimo thinkIt's not bad, it is just slightly less than the Duo. If you are noticing the difference your dish is already too small for the transponders you are trying to receive.
Anyway after running the two side by side for a month and configuring the Ultimo the same as the Duo, I have now put the Duo away as a back-up.
I think it depends alot on the lnb used too.
I think it depends alot on the lnb used too.The two receivers were connected to the same LNB. The is quite a bit of difference between the two at the top end of high band, but at the opposite end (low end of low band) the Ultimo has the edge.
The two receivers were connected to the same LNB. The is quite a bit of difference between the two at the top end of high band, but at the opposite end (low end of low band) the Ultimo has the edge.
I didn't test mine together with my old Inverto black ultra, but I noticed the Ultimo had slightly less signal % than the duo had.
But with my current Hybrid Smart Tit with CM feedhorn, the Ultimo has the same or higher signal on pretty much every transponder i've tested, than my current duo.
Try CBS Reality on 28E. Not +1.
45% on duo, 47% on Ultimo
Rob van der Does
27-02-12, 20:18
45% on duo, 47% on Ultimo
There's really no point in comparing those values: they are no way calibrated. Such a reading can only be used on one box, to see that a transponder is received a bit stronger or weaker then another. Don't try to use it for something it's not meant for.
The speedometer of my wife's car also says to be 10 Km/h faster then in my car.........
There's really no point in comparing those values: they are no way calibrated. Such a reading can only be used on one box, to see that a transponder is received a bit stronger or weaker then another. Don't try to use it for something it's not meant for.
The speedometer of my wife's car also says to be 10 Km/h faster then in my car.........
Yes I know it's not exact, and is only there as a guideline.
But the fact remains, that the duo shows a slightly lower signal than the ultimo does, when both are using the same lnb to view the same channel.
Both are also using the same image, same channel list, same lnb etc etc.
Hi,
as Rob said these values cannot be compared between STBs with different tuner and driver.
In my case the Ultimo found around 80 channel more on Astra and Hotbird so I would say it is more sensible. I only have Kathrein components. 14 years old but still very good:-)
ciao
Rob van der Does
27-02-12, 20:26
Yes I know it's not exact, and is only there as a guideline.
Apparently I failed to explain that you can 't do that this way.
But the fact remains, that the duo shows a slightly lower signal than the ultimo does, when both are using the same lnb to view the same channel.
Both are also using the same image, same channel list, same lnb etc etc.
Again: using two completely different and not-calibrated meters, so it doesn't mean a thing. Could very well be that two identical receivers would show different values.
Apparently I failed to explain that you can 't do that this way.
Again: using two completely different and not-calibrated meters, so it doesn't mean a thing. Could very well be that two identical receivers would show different values.
So how do you compare the 2 ?
Rob van der Does
28-02-12, 04:45
So how do you compare the 2 ?
Well, frankly: I don't as there's no good way to do so.
You can get some idea of the relative tuner sensitivity if you compare the results on (very) weak transponders, and e.g. the number of services found on weak satellites (provided the satellites.xml is the same, and no networkscan is performed).
So how do you compare the 2 ?Pretty simple really. On a motorised system move the dish slightly and see which receiver loses the picture first.
there Is more sense to compare tuners of Vu to say db800HD se or db7020HD
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